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13 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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August 19th, 2022 at 10:04:34 AM permalink
My latest video from the 2022 Table Game Protection and Table Games Conference is 21 Stud.


Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDhXo1-w5wQ

This game is blackjack with NO decision making. Your initial two cards are all you get.

In addition:

1. Ace-Ace counts as a blackjack
2. Player wins blackjack ties
3. Dealer wins all other ties

I found the game creator, Brandon Zyxnfryx, to be quite delightful.

The question for the poll is would you play 21 Stud? (multiple votes allowed)
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” -- Carl Sagan
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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August 19th, 2022 at 12:11:17 PM permalink
Using an infinite deck approximation, I calculate the House Edge of 21 Stud to be 0.068170977, or 6.817%. I did assume that the BJ (A-A) payout was 1.5 when dealer also has a blackjack.

BTW, is Brandon Zyxnfryx related to Mr. Mxyzptlk?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 19th, 2022 at 12:30:48 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Using an infinite deck approximation, I calculate the House Edge of 21 Stud to be 0.068170977, or 6.817%. I did assume that the BJ (A-A) payout was 1.5 when dealer also has a blackjack.



Here is a summary of my infinite-deck analysis.

Event Pays Probability Return
Player BJ win 1.5 0.050418 0.075628
Dealer BJ win -1 0.050418 -0.050418
BJ tie 1.5 0.002836 0.004254
Other win 1 0.413781 0.413781
Other Loss -1 0.413781 -0.413781
Other tie -1 0.068765 -0.068765
Total 1.000000 -0.039302


Quote:

BTW, is Brandon Zyxnfryx related to Mr. Mxyzptlk?
link to original post



Good question, but I didn't ask.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” -- Carl Sagan
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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August 19th, 2022 at 1:05:00 PM permalink
Oh, I had assumed that A-K was not a blackjack (and thus paid 1-1 and lost to Dealer A-A) because A-A was defined to be a blackjack.

Making that correction, my calculation is now HE = 0.03937541 or -3.9375% However, my calculation is actually a 6-deck calculation in which the dealer hand probabilities are insensitive to the two cards in the players hand.

So, I repeated this calculation based on a 600 deck shoe and I get a House Edge of -0.03930257, which is close enough to confirm your infinite deck result.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
21STUD
August 19th, 2022 at 1:53:16 PM permalink
Nice game. I would trial it. I'd probably want to find a way to reduce the house edge a tiny bit, but not as low as BJ because you can't misplay hands.

Solid game and play. Easy to learn. Not intimidating for women or new players in general because their play does not affect others. Nice side bet paytable with a possibility to add a progressive for either both cards matchimg or 4 card poker hands.

Well done.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Cosmiccow
Cosmiccow
Joined: Aug 18, 2022
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August 19th, 2022 at 2:27:05 PM permalink
Event Pays Probability Return
Player BJ win 1.5 0.050418 0.075628
Dealer BJ win -1 0.050418 -0.050418
BJ tie 1.5 0.002836 0.004254
Other win 1 0.413781 0.413781
Other Loss -1 0.413781 -0.413781
Other tie -1 0.068765 -0.068765
Total 1.000000 -0.039302


This game looks incredibly countable
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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21STUD
August 19th, 2022 at 5:26:07 PM permalink
Welcome to the forum, cosmiccow. Its always a good idea for newcomers to take a look at the rules: Forum Rules We look forward to getting to know you!

I think the question of countability is To Be Determined. Yes, a high frequency of getting BJs is in the player's favor, so Aces and (to a lesser extent) Tens should have a positive EOR. But I suspect that excess Tens may also increase the probability of player and dealer tieing on non-BJ hands, and that is where the dealer's advantage comes from. I would normally calculate EORs for the ranks, but I'm about to be very busy for a week, so I imagine some others will do it. This is an easy game to analyze.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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August 19th, 2022 at 6:06:02 PM permalink
Most of my profit in BJ comes from Double Downs, Splits, and Black Jacks. Maybe I cut my losses a bit with surrender too.
Where's the bright points of winning in this game?
SphinxOfCups
SphinxOfCups
Joined: Sep 2, 2021
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Thanks for this post from:
21STUD
August 19th, 2022 at 10:06:11 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Most of my profit in BJ comes from Double Downs, Splits, and Black Jacks. Maybe I cut my losses a bit with surrender too.
Where's the bright points of winning in this game?
link to original post


That's kind of where I'm at. The lack of player decision makes it approachable, but not enjoyable. I got a chance to play this at the show and I found the side bets to not be engaging enough to make up for no strategy.

It has a place on the casino floor, but it's not something I'd want to play.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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August 19th, 2022 at 10:30:52 PM permalink
Quote: SphinxOfCups

It has a place on the casino floor, but it's not something I'd want to play.
link to original post



Edited. Replied to wrong post in this one. Deleted.


ZCore13
Last edited by: Zcore13 on Aug 19, 2022
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

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