Poll

1 vote (3.33%)
14 votes (46.66%)
1 vote (3.33%)
14 votes (46.66%)
5 votes (16.66%)
8 votes (26.66%)

30 members have voted

billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 192
  • Posts: 11772
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 15th, 2021 at 12:25:18 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Protecting your hand from inadvertent exposure in the course of a card game is a fundamental concept. Like "According to Hoyle" basic. Sorry, my library isn't handy at the moment, or I'd track it down and quote it.

If a trained, licensed professional gambler, supervised by other trained, licensed professional gamblers, and employed by a consortium of professional gamblers to play the game is flashing, I believe it's either intentional, or their responsibility to notice and correct it.

I am their opponent in a card game.
It is not my responsibility to help them win.

If that seems overly harsh, let's not forget that it's their house, their game rules, their cards, they initially arbitrate any disputes, and some places have been known not to pay up if you manage to beat them at their own game.

What dealer mistakes is it ethical to exploit?
Any and all.
If you don't care to see the card, you can always look away or find another table.



Egg Xactly
When dealers point out my mistakes, I will reciprocate.
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 2018
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 15th, 2021 at 4:31:57 PM permalink


Quote: The Compleat Gamester, Hoyle


He that can by craft overlook his adversary's game hath a great advantage, for by that means he may partly know what to play securely; or if he can have some petty glimpse of his partner's hand.



By implication, if your adversary can see your cards, he has a great advantage over you. Conceal your cards, don't let them share their hands with each other.

This is Hoyle talking about Whist.
This is not new; this text is dated 1725 - almost 300 years ago.

Hoyle goes on to discuss a series of hand signals partners may use to discreetly share hand information at the table, in case anyone thinks team play is a relatively new innovation.

A few sections earlier Hoyle was talking about remembering what has been played so that you can play your next few hands more effectively. I believe the modern term for this is "card counting".



edit: I erroneously attributed The Compleat Gamester to Hoyle instead of Cotton.
Last edited by: Dieter on Jul 16, 2021
May the cards fall in your favor.
ThisIsMyJam
ThisIsMyJam
Joined: Oct 22, 2019
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 12
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146Dieter
July 18th, 2021 at 9:17:28 AM permalink
I agree that it is the dealer's responsibility to know the game and payout correctly. I don't correct their mistakes in the player's favor but always correct if it hurts the player. I've saved myself and others way too many underpayments on a game like UTH to feel bad about overpayment. In my experience underpayment seems to happen more often.

I will not help a player who is a jerk. Occasionally I come across a player who gets mad that I stopped the dealer from taking their money when they actually won or when I point out they were underpaid. I don't understand what they're thinking but now they're on their own. As you'd expect, the vast majority are thankful.

If I were to see a dealer inadvertently flashing a hole card I would sit down at that table.
moses
moses
Joined: Sep 23, 2013
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 436
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 18th, 2021 at 9:57:05 AM permalink
Quote: ThisIsMyJam

I agree that it is the dealer's responsibility to know the game and payout correctly. I don't correct their mistakes in the player's favor but always correct if it hurts the player. I've saved myself and others way too many underpayments on a game like UTH to feel bad about overpayment. In my experience underpayment seems to happen more often.

I will not help a player who is a jerk. Occasionally I come across a player who gets mad that I stopped the dealer from taking their money when they actually won or when I point out they were underpaid. I don't understand what they're thinking but now they're on their own. As you'd expect, the vast majority are thankful.

If I were to see a dealer inadvertently flashing a hole card I would sit down at that table.



Excellent post. You just never know what people are thinking in a casino.

One time I was sitting at a blackjack machine playing a nickel a hand. The guy next to me was playing a dollar a hand. He was losing and felt the need to give me crap about my meager wagers. My purpose in sitting there was to watch a $50 table and pounce the minute it was empty. But I saw no reason to tell him that.

He made a nasty remark as he left. My table in waiting had two more players sit down.

Um. We "met" again.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 3202
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 18th, 2021 at 4:59:15 PM permalink
On this topic, I completely agree with BillRyan (which doesn't happen that often.)

I'm busy at the table - even if I'm just relaxing and socializing. If I think a dealer has made a mistake in my favor, I am NOT going to doublecheck and recheck my analysis -that's a waste of my neural synapses, of my energy and brainpower. I'm just going to relax and assume that he's a professional and I'm the fish and that he must have been correct.

However, when I suspect he has made an error that unfairly takes money from me or a fellow player, then I do choose to fire my neural synapses and doublecheck my analysis and then speak out, as necessary.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 2344
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 19th, 2021 at 11:57:23 AM permalink
I will not point out errors in favor of the dealer. I make this clear to the dealer and they know that, so it is completely honest for me to ignore certain mistakes. I could even write a letter to the highest level of management and the share-holders, in that case no could never be anything considered dishonest about my silence in these examples.

The analogy of a cashier McDonald's is a good one. The difference is that when I play table games, I need the dealer to be an expert in dealing for me to be able to enjoy and benefit from the game. When I get an egg sandwich and coffee from McDonald's, I do not need the cashier to be an expert money counter for me to enjoy and benefit from their breakfast. That is why I will correct the cashier, but not the dealer.
Keeneone
Keeneone
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 19th, 2021 at 3:15:08 PM permalink
Knowingly or unknowingly, mistakes happen all the time. Why feel guilty when they work in your favor?

This thread (a good one btw) made me think of this "motivational poster":

Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 132
  • Posts: 14626
July 19th, 2021 at 3:24:08 PM permalink
Quote: Keeneone

Knowingly or unknowingly, mistakes happen all the time. Why feel guilty when they work in your favor?

This thread (a good one btw) made me think of this "motivational poster":



Thanks for the compliment on the thread idea!

I think I know how to fix the image, but no promises.

ADDED: I do not know how to fix the image.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 192
  • Posts: 11772
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 19th, 2021 at 3:24:42 PM permalink
Rules and bones are made to be broken.
Keeneone
Keeneone
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 1422
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
July 19th, 2021 at 3:49:09 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


Thanks for the compliment on the thread idea!

I think I know how to fix the image, but no promises.

ADDED: I do not know how to fix the image.


No problemo, you are welcome. :)
Image looks good to me (on desktop/chrome and iphone), what is wrong with the image you see?

  • Jump to: