MS Stud Max Aggregate

I was watching a YouTube video of someone playing Mississippi Stud last night and she had to explain that there was a $25,000 payout maximum on the Royal.

If she was betting $6 and a Royal prompted her to bet a total of 8X her ante bet for a total bet of $48 x 500 on the Royal equals $24,000 payout, she would not be losing on the Royal. But she was betting $15 on the ante, so 8X that would be $120 x 500 equals $60,000 on a Royal, and she would be shorted $35,000 on the jackpot. She said she won't bet the $1 side bet that pays $20,000 on the Royal because she would just be wasting her money.

Some threads on WoV from many years past have said this is fraud on the part of casinos and even the law says the minimum bet has to pay out in full and the casinos won't. They also said the Max Aggregate doesn't apply to wins on less than 50 to 1 payouts.

So my question is, what if you want to play just for the 4 of a kinds? If the table maximum is $1,000, your total bet could be up to $10,000 and a 4 of a kind win would be $400,000. Will the casinos pay you the $400,000, and if so, why can't they pay the $4-$5 million on a Royal?

I'll assume there's no tax form on the 4 of a kind but there is on a Royal.

No the max payout on ANY hand is $25,000. And yes I hate this restriction casinos use.

I look forward to betting a $125 ante on a $50K or $75K max aggregate table so a 4 of a kind would pay up to $50K, but I'll be out up to $450K+ on a Royal.

Isn't it much worse than that? Isn't it a table max aggregate? There can't be two royals in MS, but there can be two 7 card straight flushes in Pai Gow. I believe the players are paid starting with the dealer's left, and once the max is reached nobody else gets paid.

That makes monitoring other player's bets a must and seat position a number one concern!

I totally forgot about the straight flush paying 100 to 1. At a $50K max aggregate table, if two players bet $25 on the ante and total bet up to $250, at 100 to 1, they would each be paid $25K. On a $25K max aggregate table only the first player would be paid and the second player gets nothing, or they pro rata it and each player gets half at $12,500 a piece. It depends on the casino, and who is responsible. If there's a third straight flush, it gets split 3 ways or the third player gets shafted too. A $75K max aggregate table could handle 3 straight flush winners at $25 x 10 a piece.

If you want to win $25K on a Royal, should keep your ante down to $5.
If you want to win $50K on a Royal, should keep your ante down to $10.
If you want to win $75K on a Royal, should keep your ante down to $15.

Ever hear of Basic Strategy? Read about it on Wizard of Odds! You don't triple on A Ks. You don't triple on 67s.
Max ante bet I've seen is $100, so 90% of your posts are BS

Isn't there some tax advantage? While betting big, if you hit the royal and the capped payment keeps it under 300x your bet, you don't get a W2-G?

(yes, the law states that you're supposed to declare ALL your winnings....)

I don't understand how the Max Aggregate isn't illegal. They post a game, post the odds, and basically put a sign on the table that says "Yeah, even though you can mathematically hit for a lot of money, we're just gonna refuse to pay you all the way." As if they have a problem with people hitting royals 1 in every 450,000 hands.

Where to Play Mississippi Stud Poker at Las Vegas Casinos 2020
https://www.onlineunitedstatescasinos.com/las-vegas/games/mississippi-stud/

The $100 max bet is common, but there are a few places in Vegas where the max bet is higher, or much higher; like $200, $500, or even $2000.
The minimum bet is split around $5, $10, or $15, or even $25.

What is not listed is the max aggregate payouts at each table/casino.

If you have a $10 ante and bet $100 total and hit the Royal, you should be paid $50K, but they'll only pay you $25,000 which would be only 250 times your original bet and under the 300 to 1 payoff needed for a tax form. If you only bet $80 total for the Royal, you'd be expecting $40K but getting $25K, which is 312.5 times your original bet and you would get a tax form.

There was a thread on here not too long ago with a player going over the payout limit at the Flamingo. Only problem was the placard detailing the limit wasn't on the table. When informed of this the floor grabbed it from another table, put it on the player's table and told the player "too bad". NGCB took about 15s to rule in the player's favor.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/big-wins/28555-paigow-bonus-casino-did-not-pay-full-amount-as-shown-on-the-table/

I take it back ... it took almost 60 days for the player to get paid.

Quote: Romes

I don't understand how the Max Aggregate isn't illegal.

It is not illegal as long as they notify you of it. It is your choice whether to play it or not. If there is nothing on the table stating it they will have to pay you.

Quote: sabre

There was a thread on here not too long ago with a player going over the payout limit at the Flamingo. Only problem was the placard detailing the limit wasn't on the table. When informed of this the floor grabbed it from another table, put it on the player's table and told the player "too bad". NGCB took about 15s to rule in the player's favor.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/big-wins/28555-paigow-bonus-casino-did-not-pay-full-amount-as-shown-on-the-table/

I take it back ... it took almost 60 days for the player to get paid.

I wrote a short article about them here:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/Casino-MAPs/

And Armyegad (the thread you linked to) was kind enough to let me interview him about it for an LCB article you can find here:

https://lcb.org/news/editorials/straight-up-attempted-casino-fraud

I would hope those tables with allegedly $2000 antes need some serious signage. Optimal play resulting in 4 OAK results in $800,000 payout. Optimal play resulting in a SF has a payout of $1,200,000! Royal Flush would produce $8,000,000.

This is in accordance with proper basic strategy betting as outlined on Wizard of Odds.

Quote: DRich

It is not illegal as long as they notify you of it. It is your choice whether to play it or not. If there is nothing on the table stating it they will have to pay you.

On the same exact table they also notify me of different odds amounts for the payouts given the also posted table limits. I.E. Conflicting signage. On one hand you have "Max $100" and on the felt itself it reads "500:1"... thus if you $100 ante, and 3x each spot, $1000 * 500 = $500,000. Then you put a sign up next to it that says "well, even though all that other stuff is written on the same table, we're not gonna pay you 500:1 even though it says 500:1."

They shouldn't be allowed to advertise $100 table limit and 500:1 odds if they can't/don't/won't pay it.

Quote: Romes

On the same exact table they also notify me of different odds amounts for the payouts given the also posted table limits. I.E. Conflicting signage. On one hand you have "Max $100" and on the felt itself it reads "500:1"... thus if you $100 ante, and 3x each spot, $1000 * 500 = $500,000. Then you put a sign up next to it that says "well, even though all that other stuff is written on the same table, we're not gonna pay you 500:1 even though it says 500:1."

They shouldn't be allowed to advertise $100 table limit and 500:1 odds if they can't/don't/won't pay it.

I agree, or at least have something with the max agg. sign that states the maximum amount that could be bet while still ensuring the full return of the pay table.

Quote: sabre

Isn't it much worse than that? Isn't it a table max aggregate? There can't be two royals in MS, but there can be two 7 card straight flushes in Pai Gow. I believe the players are paid starting with the dealer's left, and once the max is reached nobody else gets paid.

Thats not how table aggregates work. In a table aggregate situation, all players at the table are paid an amount proportionate to the size of their bet.

Example:
Player 1: SCSF with $25 up. Full pay: $200,000
Player 2: SCSF with $10 up. Full pay: $80,000
Player 3: Trips with $15 up. Full pay: $45
Total payout without an aggregate: $280,045

Player 1: 200,000/280,045 = 71.42%
Player 2: 80,000/280,045 = 28.56%
Player 3: 45/280,045 = 0.02%

$25,000 Table Aggregate
Player 1: $25,000 × 71.42% = $17,855
Player 2: $25,000 × 28.56% = $7,140
Player 3: $25,000 × 0.02% = $5