98Clubs
98Clubs
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 1728
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
November 21st, 2010 at 7:51:40 PM permalink
I've played quite a bit, and after reading the rules at the "odds" site and checking out the 2-pair strategy (Thanks much for that!) I have two questions about the Copy Rules (re: Copy + Win = Push, Copy + Loss = Loss, and Copy + Copy = Loss).

1.) Do the Copy Rules compose all ( or nearly all ) of the 1.3% House Vig before the commission? (re: Trump Plaza Way of 28.61% win, 29.91% loss, Balance is push)

2.) If the Copy + Win is changed to a Win, rather than Push how much does that change affect House Edge? I presume applying the commission would still give the House an edge.

I don't Bank, just play... but if I have won 2 or 3 in a row, I'll still play during a Banker hand.

Thanks much for a great site and forum.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
November 21st, 2010 at 8:13:06 PM permalink
Pai Gow side hand Copies almost always occur on the two-card side. They are won, not tied, by the banker or dealer.

The copies compose none of the commission charge, they result in a hand result change: a win becomes a push, a push becomes a loss of the player. You still pay 5% on any win (both sides) that you eek out.

Copies occur about 1.6% to 2% of the time, but because it is a two-sided hand, it's effect is about 0.8% of the time, an almost negligible amount. so, it's effect is about 0.8%.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
98Clubs
98Clubs
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 1728
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
November 22nd, 2010 at 3:56:20 PM permalink
So if I got this right, I would add 0.4% to the win% and subtract 0.4% from the push% (thats 0.8% effect). The commission would be therefore 95% of 29.01% or 27.56% minus the 29.91% loss for a house advantage of about 2.35%. Before commission, the game would change from 1.3% to 0.9% house Advantage. Thats presuming the low range of 1.6% two-sided (or halved).

According to the "odds" site the copy frequency is 2.55% 2-card and 0.1% 5-card. It seems that by halving these figures and applying to the win/push percentages, the House Edge is about 0.45%, thus the inquiry into the Copy Rules effect.

I might need a little more help with this.
Thanks for the answer.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
  • Threads: 1518
  • Posts: 27038
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
November 22nd, 2010 at 8:04:32 PM permalink
The house edge in pai gow poker, when not banking, comes almost 50/50 from losing on copies and the 5% commission. That is why it is almost break even when you are banking.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
  • Jump to: