QUICK PAY BLACKJACK

Saw this new game on Gaming Control's web:

New Game: “QUICK PAY BLACKJACK”
Live Game Developer: GOLDEN DRAGON GAMING
Trial Location: PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO
3667 LAS VEGAS BLVD S
LAS VEGAS, NV 89109

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhdg_gFriBg&t=209s

The video was posted over one year ago. Tough to introduce a new game.

Have u seen it in action?

I feel like that video must not explain "all" of the rules of the game. What happens to the "2nd bet" if I have a 15 against a 7? Or 15 against a 6 even... then am I forced to "play both bets" or can I just play the main, or can I bail out?

I agree with the post above (it doesn't explain enough of the rules), and I would also like to know how they get a house edge of 0.4% to 1.58%.

The dealer seems to check for bj after the player has made a decision (the rules aren't listed though).
Going by the video you would:
1) bail out with an 18 vs 9, T or A. this is worth an extra ~18.5% to ~37.5% increase in value to the player on those hands
2) take the "1/2 pay" with a 19 vs T or A, this is worth ~26.4% and ~ 36.2% increase in value to the player.
3) take the "6/5 pay" with a 20 vs T or A, this is worth ~16.2% and ~44.9% increase in value to the player.
4) Hedge a "dealer 5 getting 21, pays 11/1", this is worth ~29.5% increase in value to the player (increase in value is based on the size of the hedge bet, not the main bet)
5) Only losing half with a 16 vs dealer A if the dealer get BJ, this is worth 15.37%??? to the player.
And others advantages I may have missed from the video.

???: not sure if this figure is correct (I used 50% x "chance of dealer bj").

I can't see how being forced to make two*** main bets would make up for all these good rules, but at the same time the guy wouldn't be offering it, if he couldn't prove to the casino that it is a house edge game.

***: I know it reduces the advantage to the player, but how much is what I would like to know.

note: i couldn't find any game rules so I used, 6 - deck, S17, "Dealer doesn't peek for BJ" and BJ pays 3/2.

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Update:

"The player is allowed to surrender to the house when receives a poor hand. The dealer pushes all remaining bets on a hand of 17.
When the dealer has a hand of 17
The player pushes even with a poor hand of 12 Through 17.."

This is another really good rule for the player, and is worth:
1) ~10.7% if you stand on a 16 vs dealer 7,
2) ~ 6.8% if you stand on a 15 ....
3) ~ 2.5% if you stand on a 14 ...
4) play basic strategy with all other hands vs dealer 7, and if the above rule/bonus also applies to a multi-hand hard 14 to 16, then stand on those hands against a dealer 7.

Quote: UCivan

Saw this new game on Gaming Control's web:

New Game: “QUICK PAY BLACKJACK”
Live Game Developer: GOLDEN DRAGON GAMING
Trial Location: PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO
3667 LAS VEGAS BLVD S
LAS VEGAS, NV 89109

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhdg_gFriBg&t=209s

The video was posted over one year ago. Tough to introduce a new game.

Have u seen it in action?

UCivan,

Can you post a link to the game rules, or at least the webpage at NGC where you saw this? As demonstrated in this thread, trying to determine the rules from a video is difficult.

Dog Hand

I don't know anything about the game; just found it on web and was looking for someone to post more information.
Wiz usually visit new games.

Quote: UCivan

I don't know anything about the game; just found it on web and was looking for someone to post more information.
Wiz usually visit new games.

UCivan,

WHERE did you find it? Did the webpage contain the rules?

Dog Hand

https://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=84

It's listed (along with 3 Card Blitz) on the field trial page. I don't, however, think they post the rules unless a game is accepted due to last minute tweaking.

Just saw this. I'm also having a hard time piecing together the rules from that video and can find no other source.

Anyone going to the PH to investigate?

I’m just on my phone, but http://www.mikepertgen.com/quickpay.html might have a playable version. It says it requires flash.

Quote: miplet

I’m just on my phone, but http://www.mikepertgen.com/quickpay.html might have a playable version. It says it requires flash.

Good detective work Miplet. It works on my computer.

Quote: miplet

I’m just on my phone, but http://www.mikepertgen.com/quickpay.html might have a playable version. It says it requires flash.

Just had a quick go, and when the "Dealer has 17 - Unbusted hands push"
The quick pay feature for a player 20 pays odds of 1/2*** on the total bet for the demo above, but I think it was 6/10 of the total bet (on the youtube video)?.
***: if you are playing the version where the dealer peeks, then it is never the correct play to "quick pay" a player 20 when it pays odds of 1/2 of the total bet.
Dealer peeks for BJ in the demo, so my previous guess from watching the video was wrong.

I think you would stand more against a dealer 7 up-card, because of the "...unbusted hands push" rule, right?
Which is better for the player, all other rules being the equal?
1) "22 will push against any player total of 21 or less"
2) "Dealer has 17 - Unbusted hands push"

-------
Update (~555 am Pac time)
Just had another look at the push 17 rule.
Because of this rule you are better off to take the 1/2 odds with a player 20 vs dealer 10.
EV is ~43.66% if you play on^^^ and 50% if you "quick pay"

^^^: I used 6 deck, s17, and dealer peeks (other rules not important for the above hand).
-------
Update 2 (610 am Pac Time)
Also, take the 1/2 odds with a 20 vs a dealer 7
EV is ~40.64% if you play on and 50% if you "quick pay"

------
Update 3
Stand on a hard 12-16 vs dealer 7
EV is -10.7% and -10.83%, compared to about -21.2% to -40.8% if you played "traditional basic strategy".

1. The rules are very funky. If dealer has blackjack and you don't, you only lose one of your two bets.

2. Are the Quick Pay payouts on only the 2nd bet? or on both bets?

2. The rule that dealer 17 pushes against any unbusted player hand is a big deal.
-stand on 12-16 vs 7
-stand on 12 vs 2,3
- probably hit (not double) S17 v 3


3. My first impression is that, from a fresh deck, most or all of the hedge bets are unfavorable.

4. Very confusing and very complicated game.

Here's an aspect I picked up in the demo game:

The game appears to be S17 - dealer stands on S17 and pushes all unbusted hands.

Update: Also, player BJ has a payout of 3:2, but only on one bet of the player! However, as I mentioned earlier, player only loses one bet when dealer gets BJ.

Edit: Okay, I have seen the demo game hit a 3-card soft 17 -5AA - but stand on a 2 card S17, i.e., stand on A6.

Below are some basic strategy*** changes:

***: 6 deck, s17, dealer peeks, late surrender (other rules don't matter for the hands I have listed below, as far as i can see?)

Hard 12 vs 8 to A: hit (stand against everything else)
Hard 13 vs 8, 9 and A: hit (stand against everything else)
Hard 14 vs 8 and A : Hit (stand against everything else)
Hard 15 and 16 vs Anything : Stand

(Edit 1) 20 vs Dealer 2^*^, 7,10 and A: Take the "quick pay" (play on and stand against anything else)
^*^: the 2 is very close, but i think this is right.

(Edit 2) Note: I haven't checked player hard 19 or 18 yet, but I would think that they would follow a similar strategy to the one above, with the following additions, take "quick pay" with a 19 vs 9 and 18 vs 8.

The doubling^^^ strategy for this game would be the same as the basic strategy for a "regular bj game".
^^^: some doubles would be "defensive" doubles, but in regular bj all doubles are "offensive".

I haven't had a look if there are any basic strategy changes for splits.
(Edit 3) in general you would split less compared to “regular “ bj strategy, especially on “defensive” splits.
Please check to see if there are any mistakes above, but i think this is correct so far.

-----
Update:

Quote: gordonm888

...4. Very confusing and very complicated game.

I agree, you would think the game play would be "slower" when compared to regular bj, as the game seems more complicated.

I think it looks fun enough, and It would be a good game to play on the internet or at a machine.

Here are screen captures from the demo game, showing it Stand on 2-card S17 and Hit on 3-card S17. I've never seen this before in a game.

Maybe somebody else already mentioned this, but the Quick Pay pay is different on a 20 between the video and demo. In the video the Quick Pay on 20 is 6-5 and on the demo is 1-1. The video mentions a quick pay on 21 of 3-2, but this would be a blackjack anyway, so I don't see the purpose in mentioning it.

I acknowledge the table in the video says that the dealer stands on soft 17, but I wouldn't put much stock in that. I often have to use a table for a different game in my videos, because I don't have one for the right game.

Another quirky thing is the demo doesn't allow splitting unlike tens.

If anyone should go to the Planet Hollywood, please try to get a full set of rules.

This game has some resemblance to Half Pay Blackjack as seen at Cutting Edge 2015.



Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=712I1Bsv9dA

A couple questions...
1) if I go into a NV casino and ask for the rules, do they need to provide me with a copy?
2) by reading this thread only, this game appears a bit more complex than the standard, active table game. if the contributors to this thread are a bit confused, I can only imagine how many mistakes (for and against players) will be made by dealers, no?

Quote: IndyJeffrey

...I can only imagine how many mistakes (for and against players) will be made by dealers, no?

There will be many mistakes by some of the players (like with regular bj).
Also, there will be at least a few by the dealers to possibly make it worth it to play (by only pointing out the mistakes ,when they are in the casino’s favour)

When I play bj variants at my casino, I try to “follow a dealer” who just came off a regular bj game and started dealing bj switch.
When I do this and get paid *** on the first dealer 22 of the game, I will stay at the table until the dealer leaves.
***: this happens ~4.% of the time , and has a high chance (90%+ ) of happening on the next dealer 22 (when it happens on the first 22).
If it doesn’t happen on the first 22, I will leave the table and repeat.

Edit: where I play (in Australia) they don’t seem to confiscate the winnings when I get paid like this.

Edit 2: I also ask the dealer “what time does there shift finish?” (or similar questions) to get an idea of how “tired” they could be


Sent by phone

I was at Planet Hollywood about two weeks ago on the night that they put this game out on the floor. They were training people on it in an area with extra tables and then put it onto the main floor in the "pleasure pit". The name they are using is "Hedge Blackjack".

I played it for a while but found it to be unbelievably boring. Virtually nobody was betting the hedges and nobody was taking the quick pays.

Sounds awfully confusing. If the great minds on this site are having trouble grasping the rules, I could only imagine what Joe Sixpack will think of the game.

Quote: Wizard

....This game has some resemblance to Half Pay Blackjack as seen at Cutting Edge 2015.

Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=712I1Bsv9dA

The game also includes the compensating rule used in our Mulligan Blackjack where we used the "Push On Dealer 17 Rule" (it was also a S17 game and we weren't first with that rule either). Half Back BJ was better received at Cutting Edge taking 2nd place in 2015, but that didn't lead to much success in field trials.

Here is what we learned from the four field trials Lucky and I had with Mulligan & Half Back BJ that are relevant to Quick Pay:

1) Players hated the Push on Dealer 17 Rule of Mulligan BJ...despite the fact that the rule saved them a bet when the stood on a 15/16 and the dealer drew to 17 essentially beating their hand, they only seemed to remember not winning on their 18-20's a lot more often. Miplet, how often does the dealer end up with a hard or soft 17 again? I know you gave me that percentage at some point :-).

2) the average player didn't assign a lot of value to being able to pull back one of their wagers in Half Back BJ. That was a bit of a stunner to us, but somehow the option was confusing to them and they didn't play correctly very often. Quick Pay may have the same effect on players not knowing when to take it. Plus undoubtedly in Half Back, a player would take back half their bet on a hard 13 vs. a 9 and invariably take a hit for the remaining wager in play and get a 7 or 8 which would win but only pay on their remaining "half wager".

I wish Mike P well with Quick Pay....is this the same guy that was a creative force behind High Card Flush?

Quote: Paradigm

Quote: Wizard

....This game has some resemblance to Half Pay Blackjack as seen at Cutting Edge 2015.

Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=712I1Bsv9dA

The game also includes the compensating rule used in our Mulligan Blackjack where we used the "Push On Dealer 17 Rule" (it was also a S17 game and we weren't first with that rule either). Half Back BJ was better received at Cutting Edge taking 2nd place in 2015, but that didn't lead to much success in field trials.

Here is what we learned from the four field trials Lucky and I had with Mulligan & Half Back BJ that are relevant to Quick Pay:

1) Players hated the Push on Dealer 17 Rule of Mulligan BJ...despite the fact that the rule saved them a bet when the stood on a 15/16 and the dealer drew to 17 essentially beating their hand, they only seemed to remember not winning on their 18-20's a lot more often. Miplet, how often does the dealer end up with a hard or soft 17 again? I know you gave me that percentage at some point :-).

2) the average player didn't assign a lot of value to being able to pull back one of their wagers in Half Back BJ. That was a bit of a stunner to us, but somehow the option was confusing to them and they didn't play correctly very often. Quick Pay may have the same effect on players not knowing when to take it. Plus undoubtedly in Half Back, a player would take back half their bet on a hard 13 vs. a 9 and invariably take a hit for the remaining wager in play and get a 7 or 8 which would win but only pay on their remaining "half wager".

I wish Mike P well with Quick Pay....is this the same guy that was a creative force behind High Card Flush?

Quote: Paradigm

The game also includes the compensating rule used in our Mulligan Blackjack where we used the "Push On Dealer 17 Rule" (it was also a S17 game and we weren't first with that rule either).

Thanks Paradigm,

The First "Push On Dealer 17 Rule" was invented by me and was use on my Raise’em® Blackjack™.
It was show at ICE-London Feb-2013. http://bit.ly/2KPC81a

*** Standard Blackjack rules remain unchanged other than as set out below:

• In addition to the normal doubling, Player may make a Raise-bet after seeing his first card and Dealer’s up-card providing the Player’s card is not an ace (the Raise-bet may not exceed his Original-bet) and will be paid 3 to 2 for blackjack on his Original-bet and Raise-bet (if made).

• Player’s 21 beats Dealer’s 21 and Player’s blackjack beats Dealer’s blackjack.

• Double or Split-pairs: Must equal to the Original-bet plus Raise-bet if made.

• If Dealer has 17 and Player has 17 to 20, the Player’s bets is a Tie.

Is this game still up???