Poll

2 votes (16.66%)
3 votes (25%)
1 vote (8.33%)
8 votes (66.66%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (16.66%)
1 vote (8.33%)
1 vote (8.33%)
1 vote (8.33%)
1 vote (8.33%)

12 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
February 23rd, 2019 at 6:26:01 AM permalink
Hold 'Em 88 just started a field trial at the Hard Rock in Lake Tahoe.

It is the same thing as Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em, except adds a new side bet, the Bonus 88, and makes a couple of terminology changes:

The Play is called simply the "Bet."
The Trips bet is called the Seven Card Bonus.

For all the details and analysis, please see my new page on Hold 'Em 88. As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and corrections.

The question for the poll is would you play Hold 'Em 88?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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February 23rd, 2019 at 8:24:52 AM permalink
I would have a hard time playing this, since it's IP theft of the base game. I don't play HUH for the same reason.

Your page has a paste error. The tables for the seven card bonus bet both have the 88 sidebet pay schedule instead. The same pay tables are placed correctly below those. The missing pay tables are summarized as:

Here is a summary of the house edge of each pay table:

50-40-30-8-7-4-3 — 3.50%
50-40-20-7-6-5-3 — 6.18%
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
CharmedQuark
CharmedQuark
Joined: Apr 28, 2015
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February 23rd, 2019 at 8:31:14 AM permalink
I said 'maybe'. Only if UTH wasn't available. Since I don't play side bets - the game should be the same.
Wizard
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Wizard
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February 23rd, 2019 at 8:41:31 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Your page has a paste error. The tables for the seven card bonus bet both have the 88 sidebet pay schedule instead.



Thanks, just fixed it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Gialmere
Gialmere
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabsMrCasinoGames
February 23rd, 2019 at 10:56:35 AM permalink
Wow. Exactly how lax is casino game Copyright law? I can see selling the 88 Bonus as an add on, but declaring that it and a few word changes on the felt makes a new game? Putting custom rims on a Ford Mustang doesn't make you a new car designer.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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February 23rd, 2019 at 12:17:46 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

Wow. Exactly how lax is casino game Copyright law? I can see selling the 88 Bonus as an add on, but declaring that it and a few word changes on the felt makes a new game? Putting custom rims on a Ford Mustang doesn't make you a new car designer.



Exactly. There are several people here who are better informed on this than me, but as I understand it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilski_v._Kappos

This Bilski decision from 2010 wrecked the patentability of processes, which includes dealing a standard deck of cards to a particular set of rules.

Ever since, though they encroached slowly at first to test the legal waters, the designers and distributors have been stealing/cloning each other's proprietary games. It's pretty much ruined the game inventor field.

Trademark/copyright protections aren't strong enough. The game has to have physical differences or electronic manifestations that are unique to be considered for patent. But brick and mortar casinos want standard games with standard decks and tables, so they're resistant to the sort of add-ons that would allow patent protection for a table game.

The encroachment has reached the point where they're making blatant copies of games, and just changing the name and some terms, and adding a sidebet or something to avoid trademark infringement. Then running around and undercutting their competition (usually the original owners) with lower royalty fees.

It's pretty disgusting. They didn't spend all the development and licensing and testing money to invent the game and build a popular base for it. They're just ripping off the competing distributor, its reputation, and the inventors, both the distributors and the casinos that agree to replace the original with the clone.
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Feb 23, 2019
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
SM777
SM777
Joined: Apr 8, 2016
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February 23rd, 2019 at 12:34:44 PM permalink
Such a shame. Another copy of a game.
MrCasinoGames
MrCasinoGames
Joined: Sep 13, 2010
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February 23rd, 2019 at 12:42:55 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Hold 'Em 88 just started a field trial at the Hard Rock in Lake Tahoe.

It is the same thing as Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em, except adds a new side bet, the Bonus 88, and makes a couple of terminology changes:

The Play is called simply the "Bet."
The Trips bet is called the Seven Card Bonus.


Hi ALL,

This is what happens, when Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em doesn't respect other peoples IP Rights (It come back and bite them).

FYI, I Own the Patent for Texas Hold'em against the Casino/House.
I also invented the First Texas Hold'em against the Casino/House (Casino Hold'em®) in the Year 2000.

* Casino Hold'em® Poker™ ©2000.
The Number-1: RNG, Mobile and Live-Dealer Casino-Poker play Online with 1000+ Online-Casinos using it.
The First, Fastest and Patented Texas Hold'em against the Casino/House.
The First and Only Live-Dealer Online Casino-Poker play-in USA.

* USA Online-Casinos using Casino Hold'em® Poker™:
Golden Nugget Casino: CasinoHoldemGolden.com
MGM Casino: CasinoHoldemM.com
Borgata Casino: CasinoHoldemB.com
Party Casino NJ: CasinoHoldemParty.com
Betfair: CasinoHoldemFair.com

* MGM Casino Hold'em®Rules: http://bit.ly/2KiDQYU
* Borgata Casino Hold'em® Rules: http://bit.ly/2Ta6X5a
* Golden Nugget Casino Hold'em®Rules: http://bit.ly/2ONC98Z

* Other Online-Casinos using Casino Hold'em®. Just to name a FEW:
Poker Stars Casino, William Hill Casino, 888 Casinos, Bet365 Casino, Betsson Casino, Paddy Power Casino, UNIBET Casino, ALL GVC Casinos and...

* Math at Wizard of Odds (Casino Hold'em®): http://bit.ly/2GETxIF


Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Feb 23, 2019
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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February 23rd, 2019 at 1:18:30 PM permalink
Quote: Stephen



This is what happens, when Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em doesn't respect other peoples IP Rights (It come back and bite them).



With all due respect, Stephen, I disagree. Your game uses the bet structure from Caribbean Stud, adapted to a hold-Em procedure. UTH betting structure is significantly different from yours, changes the odds, the optimal strategy, the game play, the volatility, and the return in large amounts.

If you had invented Four Card Poker as it is dealt here, for example, and they laid UTH on that skeleton, I think you might have a case. But the mandatory -EV Blind balanced by multiple + EV Play opportunities is a unique variation using original math.

As it is, I think SHFL has original art that is valid.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MrCasinoGames
MrCasinoGames
Joined: Sep 13, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
teliot
February 23rd, 2019 at 1:27:06 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

With all due respect, Stephen, I disagree. Your game uses the bet structure from Caribbean Stud, adapted to a hold-Em procedure. UTH betting structure is significantly different from yours, changes the odds, the optimal strategy, the game play, the volatility, and the return in large amounts.

If you had invented Four Card Poker as it is dealt here, for example, and they laid UTH on that skeleton, I think you might have a case. But the mandatory -EV Blind balanced by multiple + EV Play opportunities is a unique variation using original math.

As it is, I think SHFL has original art that is valid.


Hi beachbumbabs,

I am not talking about the Betting-structure HERE.

I am saying, I OWN the Right to (The USA-Patent) Texas Hold'em against the Casino/House.
That means Texas Hold'em against the Casino/House, it doesn't matter what Betting-Structure, Dealing-Procedures, Side-Bets, Table-Size, Online, Off-line ect... it uses.
Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Feb 23, 2019
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com

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