beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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April 9th, 2018 at 6:50:48 PM permalink
Quote: Nathan

I have a question with this. I it unanimous/Take team down with you, or is it "Whoever wants to do it can do it? " Unanimous/take team down with you in Layman's terms,"One person doesn't want to do it so no one can do it. Let's say that there are 5 people who are willing to do the "Pay it forward," thing mentioned in this thread. Tom, Patty,Richard, Steven, and Joshua are playing. Richard says,"I don't want to do the Pay it forward thing." Dealer says, "Since Richard doesn't want to do the Pay it forward thing, no one can do the Pay it forward thing." As you can imagine, those four people who wanted to do it would most likely be pissed off at Richard. Or is it "Whoever wants to do the Pay it forward thing can do it," meaning no negative vote affects people who want to do it.



It's whoever wants to participate, always. The only way a player can stop another from banking when it's their turn is to bet so much that the banker can't match it. Banker has to do this even if people are playing even money, because the house must be paid, and does not participate in settling up afterward.

So you have to have enough money on the table to cover all bets before you can bank. Sometimes this means changing money from your wallet before they will deal to you.

People can say no to even money. People also sit out the hand instead. The banker just has to decide if they want to cover the whole tables' bets, or give up the bank, .
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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April 9th, 2018 at 7:50:47 PM permalink
I've seen the "even" money bet before too and it's due to superstition and not wanting to miss out on a fortune bet.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 9th, 2018 at 8:58:23 PM permalink
I'm glad to hear it confirmed this is a known Asian way of playing. I am going to have to reread the replies to make sure I understand them all though!

Quote: Wizard

This will make for a good Ask the Wizard question.

Good, gotta keep my record going for accepted questions! But I also think it should be mentioned in your PGP page, maybe someone will benefit from knowing to expect the possibility of it occurring.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
RS
RS
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April 9th, 2018 at 10:14:56 PM permalink
Can someone explain this to me, I'm still confused as to why/how people do this.

I've played probably a grand total of 2 hours MAYBE of PGP and the entire game confuses me to all hell (I just had the PB setting my hand the entire time, ez game).


So let's say I'm playing $100 a hand? If I lose, casino gets $100. If I push, obviously it's a push. If I win, casino pays me $95, right?

Now let's say I play $100 a hand and someone banks the "traditional" way. If I lose, that $100 goes to the banker and the banker pays the casino $5? If I push, obviously nothing happens (I HOPE). If I win, the banker pays me....$95?

Now let's say we're playing the way this Asian hornswoggler plays. I play $100 a hand, the hornswoggler is banking the hornswoggled way. If I lose, then $100 goes to the hornswoggler, the hornswoggler pays the casino $5, then the hornswoggler gives me my $100 back, but I have to give the hornswoggler $5, because the 'swoggler paid the casino $5? And if it's a push, nothing happens. If I win, then the hornswoggler gives me $95, but then I have to pay the hornswoggler that $95 back? Did I get all this hornswoggling and terminology correct?



TLDR:
WTF IS BANKING
HOW IS IT DIFFERENT THAN REGULAR PAI-GOW-ING
I THINK THAT'S IT

F***ing hornswogglers, let me tell ya hwat!



Is there any advantage or disadvantage to banking the hornswogglers way, or playing against a hornswoggling banker?
sodawater
sodawater
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April 9th, 2018 at 10:49:21 PM permalink
Quote: RS

$100 a hand? If I lose, casino gets $100. If I push, obviously it's a push. If I win, casino pays me $95, right?

Now let's say I play $100 a hand and someone banks the "traditional" way. If I lose, that $100 goes to the banker and the banker pays the casino $5? If I push, obviously nothing happens (I HOPE). If I win, the banker pays me....$95?



No, your last part is wrong. If a player wins a hand against a player-banker, then the player-banker pays the full $100 bet, and the dealer takes $5 for the casino before giving the remaining $95 to the winning player.
sodawater
sodawater
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April 9th, 2018 at 10:57:32 PM permalink
Quote: RS


Is there any advantage or disadvantage to banking the hornswogglers way, or playing against a hornswoggling banker?



It is a disadvantage for you, the player-banker, to agree to "no action" with another player who wishes to bet during your bank, because you have an advantage on each dollar bet against your bank. You have a further advantage the more player hands are dealt against you, due to the net commission rule. Net commission means that if you win $100 against the dealer but lose $100 to player A while banking, you owe nothing. However in normal pai gow if you win one $100 bet and lose the next you have lost $5 to commission.

As a player, it is to your advantage to call "no action" against a player-banker, but an easier way to get this edge is just to sit out the hand. Mainly players ask for no action against the player-banker so they may continue betting the bonus bet, which carries a large house edge.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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April 10th, 2018 at 2:59:07 AM permalink
When I played tiles in London a while ago I played a hand against a player banker and was told in no uncertain terms it was not right to do so. Usually they all piled their money on the player-bank, so I just sat out when they next banked.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 10th, 2018 at 5:03:36 AM permalink
After re-reading the posts, and thanks for the input everyone, I think I've mostly got it, except I still have a few questions.

Correct-me-if-I'm-wrong conclusions: To deal with the perceived need to be 'a team at the table' when someone banks, many Asians have developed some cooperative methods. There is an "even money" cooperative method which involves the player-banker returning any winnings taken from another player. This is likely to be seen at Pai Gow Poker. Co-banking, which seems simply to be a matter of adding to the banking players bet. Or less simply, players may co-bank and place that bet in front of them and the dealer knows they are co-banking? Note that question mark and the next question mark. Co-banking is seen only in PG Tiles while this "even money" method is seen at PG Poker?

I have some more questions but let's start with these.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 10th, 2018 at 5:06:15 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs


Some casinos don't allow it. Some people, and in some regions, prefer to sit out anyway. Some casinos give you an indication they would rather not "know" you're doing it. And some openly allow or suggest it.

That right there is sufficient reason for there to be a formal statement about this practice on the WOO and WOV pages.
Add in various language barrier situations or attention paying/background noise situations and it could well be an overlooked source of discontent which is not a good thing to have in a money and alcohol fueled environment.

I'm sure that Canadian woman who recently dialed 911 from a casino because she had lost all her money and needed bus fare home would never have done so had she been in the same financial situation but at a different location. Alcohol, money and excitement seem to be a special situation and casinos should do everything they can to clarify what the rules and policies are. No matter what the game, the best thing is always certainty so that the game continues without delay or acrimony.

Now neophytes are exempt from some situations such as player banking, but total ignorance of it is not good.

Its similar to the situation where a dealer started talking to me about my "having five aces" and I thought he was making a comment about my character and intended activities instead of an actual situation that was possible in the game.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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April 10th, 2018 at 5:32:01 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

When I played tiles in London a while ago I played a hand against a player banker and was told in no uncertain terms it was not right to do so. Usually they all piled their money on the player-bank, so I just sat out when they next banked.



Years ago I did that at a full table, not even knowing there was the other option. The single Asian player that spoke English explained to me that the 'proper' way to bet was with the player/banker, not against him. The player/banker will often hand one of his tiles to a co-banker, and they go through the fun of 'asking' for a specific tile. This dance adds enjoyment for me.

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