JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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April 19th, 2017 at 7:38:43 PM permalink
Has anyone done the math/ figured a strategy yet for this one:

http://www.playags.com/portfolio/river-holdem/

...besides "don't play it!" :)

JC
gordonm888
gordonm888
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April 19th, 2017 at 9:18:10 PM permalink
According to those rules, your Texas Hold-em hand can't win unless it is a Full House or Higher. My initial impression is that this is a very unattractive game.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
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April 19th, 2017 at 10:30:46 PM permalink
You can still win the hand and collect on the play bets; they just don't pay the ante unless it's a full house or better.

They have it at Harrah's in Reno right now. I got clobbered without knowing basic strategy but it was fun to play.

JC
JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
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April 22nd, 2017 at 11:02:15 AM permalink
Anyone want to take a crack at this? I unfortunately do not have the math chops.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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Paigowdan
April 24th, 2017 at 2:28:00 PM permalink
This is a very hard game to analyze, which is part of the reason that no one has yet responded. I have now spent many hours analyzing this game in an approximate fashion, and I am not yet finished, but I can provide you with some rough strategy rules and guidance.

River Holdem requires the player to make three decisions:

Preflop (you have 2 cards) : BET 1X or FOLD
Postflop (you have 2 cards and a 3 card flop) : BET 1X or FOLD
River (You see all 7 cards) : BET 2x or BET 1x or FOLD

PREFLOP: You should almost always BET 1X. I have not finished my analysis, but I recommend you fold only on these hands:

83o, 82o
74o, 73o, 72o
64o and lower

Suited: 72s, 62s, 52s, 42s, 32s

Two hands that I am very unsure whether to FOLD or BET 1x are 92o and 52s.

POSTFLOP:
I have only done enough analysis to give you a very rough guideline.

On the POSTFLOP, you should almost always BET 1X. Currently, I only recommend folding when all of these conditions are true:

- all 3 flop cards are higher than both your hole cards
- there are no pairs on the board or involving your hole cards
- there are no 4-card flush draws and no 3-card flush draws involving one or more of your hole cards
- there are no 4-card straight draws or open-ended 3-card straight draws involving one or more of your hole cards

If all of these conditions are met, then FOLD.

There are other conditions to fold POSTFLOP but I have not worked those out. But the basic concept is that, in order to fold postflop, your hand must be molten horse manure.

RIVER: On this bet, you know for certain what you hand is, but not what the dealer's 2 cards are. Conceptually, if you have a >50% chance of winning you should BET 2X and if you have less than a 14.3% (1/7) chance of winning, then FOLD.

Become familiar with the concept of outs (see the WOO strategy page on Ultimate Texas Hold-em, for example). An out is any single card (such as the Ace of clubs) that will give the dealer a better hand than yours if the dealer has it.

You should count the dealer's "outs" and then use this very approximate strategy for the RIVER bet:
22 or more outs - Fold
11-21 outs - BET 1X
0-10 outs - BET 2X

To make this strategy more accurate, I recommend also counting a 3 card flush on the board as 1.5 outs and an open-ended 3-card straight on the board as 1.5 outs (assuming a straight or a flush will beat your hand.) These are hands in which the dealer needs 2 cards to complete a flush or straight, but which still pose a sizable jeopardy.
****************************
That's it. This game has some nice bonuses for getting a Full House or Better because the bonus payout multipliers apply to all the bets except the ANTE (and the ANTE is paid off at 1:1). Defining the Ante as a unit bet, a Full House will pay 7 bet units, a 4oaK (Quads) will pay 17 bet units, a straight flush will pay 81 bet units and a royal flush pays 401 bet units. These bonuses help to tip the scales away from the FOLD option for the PREFLOP bet and sometimes even for the POSTFLOP bet.

Again, this is all rough strategy until someone does a more complete and rigorous analysis. I hope this helps.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Apr 24, 2017
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
DeMango
DeMango
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April 24th, 2017 at 10:50:50 PM permalink
So where are the installs?
What is the .ev?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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April 25th, 2017 at 3:11:43 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888



RIVER: On this bet, you know for certain what you hand is, but not what the dealer's 2 cards are. Conceptually, if you have a >50% chance of winning you should BET 2X and if you have less than a 14.3% (1/7) chance of winning, then FOLD.

Become familiar with the concept of outs (see the WOO strategy page on Ultimate Texas Hold-em, for example). An out is any single card (such as the Ace of clubs) that will give the dealer a better hand than yours if the dealer has it.

You should count the dealer's "outs" and then use this very approximate strategy for the RIVER bet:
22 or more outs - Fold
11-21 outs - BET 1X
0-10 outs - BET 2X



Actually, we should change this to

28 or more outs - Fold
14-27 outs - BET 1X
0-13 outs - BET 2X
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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JohnnyComet
April 25th, 2017 at 8:16:20 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

So where are the installs?
What is the .ev?



I haven't done enough calculations to establish the EV.

This game is a lot like Ultimate Texas Holdem (and Mississippi Stud.) There are three player decision points and you need to first analyze what to do on the last decision for all possibilities, then back it up and analyze what to do on the second decision for all possibilities. Then, you analyze what to do on the first decision for all 169 starting hands. Then, you probably program a Monte Carlo simulation with all the decision rules and calculate EV.

That's a ton of work and most of us wait until a game is more established before we do that.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Apr 25, 2017
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
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April 26th, 2017 at 11:50:39 AM permalink
Thanks for taking a stab at this. Much appreciated!

As much as I find this game interesting, from a player perspective I think I prefer UTH; I don't like the trapped feeling I get with the series of ante bets and I like to be able to check pre-flop. However I'm going to try it out a bunch more next week.

JC
JohnnyComet
JohnnyComet
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May 7th, 2017 at 9:59:36 AM permalink
Played this a little more last week.

It's very volatile. First session it was all bonuses and I made out like a bandit; the dealer hit a royal flush and it was nice to get paid for that unlike UTH where I would just shake my head. Second session was all bad. No bonuses and mostly 10 5o etc. Lost much of the lead I made but I still came out ahead.

Whenever I got great cards I missed the opportunity to 4x it for sure. I wonder how it's doing.

JC

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