DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
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March 31st, 2017 at 4:23:49 PM permalink
From the point of view of a recreational gambler who wants to spend the most time at a table with the least amount of money in their initial bankroll what games would be contenders for this ? (include min bet and any necessary rule variations). For eligible games I would consider anything with a live dealer and casino chips. So Asian games, Poker (cash games and tournaments), Carnival games, traditional casino games, etc are all good while slots, video poker, horse betting, sports betting, etc would not.

I am also excluding Vegas because due to the sheer amount of gaming in one geographical location there are some game offerings which are not really offered anywhere else. Also considering how well surveyed and reviewed it is, its easier find a game that meets your criteria in advance of your trip. This is more along the lines of you find yourself in a random casino in the USA, which specific games would you look for to see if they have.
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
alphastorm
alphastorm
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March 31st, 2017 at 4:30:54 PM permalink
Blackjack, baccarat and craps.
ECoaster
ECoaster
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March 31st, 2017 at 5:14:47 PM permalink
A low limit ($10 or less) craps table playing the pass line only will probably keep you playing for awhile unless the dice turn really cold.

A $5 minimum 3 card poker table playing the ante / play bet only will probably also keep you in the game for quite awhile, though in this case you have to be OK if you get dealt one of the big hands without any money on the (normally high house edge) bonus bets.

It probably goes without saying, but busy tables will have a slower pace of play.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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March 31st, 2017 at 5:39:41 PM permalink
PG Poker.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
bigfoot66
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March 31st, 2017 at 6:19:55 PM permalink
Pai gow poker is easily your best option. It is dealt slowly and you get to handle the cards, plus half the hands push! You should easily last at least an hour if you buy in with 10 bets.
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DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
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March 31st, 2017 at 7:24:33 PM permalink
If we are talking equal min bets for the games then it just really comes down to hands per hour provided the games have comparable house edges, in that case Pai Gow Tiles and Pai Gow Poker would be the slowest. I suppose where my question gets more interesting is when you want to compare games that have separate min bets. Which you can probably make a good judgement call based upon the min bet, house edge, estimated hands per hour and standard deviation. Any trends you guys have noticed in certain games being offered cheaper than others ? Because otherwise the recreational gambler as described in my original post would have to come to the casino prepared to play a wide variety of stuff.
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
ECoaster
ECoaster
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April 1st, 2017 at 8:14:06 AM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2

Any trends you guys have noticed in certain games being offered cheaper than others ?



In my area you don't find Pai Gow Poker for less than $20 minimum. The other games I mentioned (craps, 3CP) can be found all the time for $5-$10.
TigerWu
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April 1st, 2017 at 10:23:15 AM permalink
The first game I would look for if I was dropped in Random Casino, USA, is Pai Gow tiles. Might have a high minimum, but at a full table the action would be super slow, the house edge is low, and I could sit out a hand or two if need be.

My second choice, which is a lot more likely to be available, would be Baccarat. Most mini-bac tables have a $5 minimum, $10 at the most. I'd look for a crowded table to slow the action down, and bet banker every time, and, again, sit out a hand or two every now and then.
Mission146
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April 1st, 2017 at 7:18:08 PM permalink
I agree with all of the suggestions so far and would also add Let It Ride as a really slow-paced game.

This chart on the Odds site:

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/

Has LiR at about 52 hands per hour, but my guesstimate in terms of personal experience, is probably more like in the mid-high 30's. That's with me as the only one at the table, I actually show some courtesy and play faster if I am not the only one, so two people would move faster than just me, but three would move slower than just me. Just like PGP, the game actually seems pretty boring to deal, so the dealers are usually pretty likely to BS with you if you are the type (I am) to enjoy BSing with dealers.

Same thing if I am the only one playing PGP, I probably slow that game down to twenty HPH if I am by myself.

Unfortunately, you can't necessarily find either/both of those games everywhere anymore. I've seen casinos that don't even have a table for them, let alone an open one. If you do find it, it'll usually be at a $10 minimum if other games are $5, but sometimes they'll also be at $5.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
beachbumbabs
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April 2nd, 2017 at 12:37:05 AM permalink
I know a non-nevada casino that deals 3cp, lir, ddp, msp, hcf, and deuces/joker for $2 min, and 3:2bj and pgp for $5 min, they have Caribbean stud but not sure if it's 2 or 5, also craps and roulette @ 5. All regular paytables and good rules, no surcharges, no rush; they welcome white chip play. PM me for location if you need it.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
odiousgambit
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April 2nd, 2017 at 4:27:57 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I know a non-nevada casino that deals 3cp, lir, ddp, msp, hcf, and deuces/joker for $2 min, and 3:2bj and pgp for $5 min, they have Caribbean stud but not sure if it's 2 or 5, also craps and roulette @ 5. All regular paytables and good rules, no surcharges, no rush; they welcome white chip play. PM me for location if you need it.



And it wants to stay secret?

How about just a hint as to what region?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DeMango
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April 5th, 2017 at 11:40:21 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I know a non-nevada casino that deals 3cp, lir, ddp, msp, hcf, and deuces/joker for $2 min, and 3:2bj and pgp for $5 min, they have Caribbean stud but not sure if it's 2 or 5, also craps and roulette @ 5. All regular paytables and good rules, no surcharges, no rush; they welcome white chip play. PM me for location if you need it.



Treasure Bay in Biloxi!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Romes
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April 5th, 2017 at 12:33:39 PM permalink
Honestly, your best bet to maximize your table hours and have a small potential for winning is actual poker. Play tight (only the better hands) and just be aggressive when you actually have the best of it. Some very quick and simple research online can give you the basics and from there just avoid the fancy stuff (bluffing, hero calling, semi-bluffing, etc, etc). Should be able to sit at a table for hours and hours on end, though not sure if you're the type to enjoy watching the action and conversating while dragging the occasional pot or not.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
LuckyPhow
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April 5th, 2017 at 12:40:53 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Treasure Bay in Biloxi!



Bingo!

And, for $2 craps, I believe the Palace (non-smoking) casino in Biloxi has it (at least mornings and early afternoons). But, their table games are all $5 minimum, if I recall correctly.

Plus, Boomtown Casino advertises $3 minimum bet on "select" table games at "select" times on "select" days. With no on-site hotel, it caters to the (oh-so-poor) locals, don'cher know.

I'm counting the days until the end of this month when I'll be back in Biloxi to check it all out.
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
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April 5th, 2017 at 1:12:00 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Honestly, your best bet to maximize your table hours and have a small potential for winning is actual poker. Play tight (only the better hands) and just be aggressive when you actually have the best of it. Some very quick and simple research online can give you the basics and from there just avoid the fancy stuff (bluffing, hero calling, semi-bluffing, etc, etc). Should be able to sit at a table for hours and hours on end, though not sure if you're the type to enjoy watching the action and conversating while dragging the occasional pot or not.



What games and table limits and are you talking cash games or tournament play ? Browsing through likely places I might end up I see stuff like $50ish no limit holdem tournaments, $1/$2 no limit holdem $75 buy in, $2/$4 Limit Holdem $20 buy in, $3/$6 Mixed $30 buy in, $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi $200 buy in, and some stud games but they are way above my bankroll. I don't know anything about Poker analysis but I would guess a $1/$1 no limit holdem $50 buy in would be the best game for longevity of play of the stuff I mentioned?
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
MidwestAP
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April 5th, 2017 at 1:59:40 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Honestly, your best bet to maximize your table hours and have a small potential for winning is actual poker. Play tight (only the better hands) and just be aggressive when you actually have the best of it. Some very quick and simple research online can give you the basics and from there just avoid the fancy stuff (bluffing, hero calling, semi-bluffing, etc, etc). Should be able to sit at a table for hours and hours on end, though not sure if you're the type to enjoy watching the action and conversating while dragging the occasional pot or not.



Romes - While I totally respect 99% of your advice, I don't agree here. If a player plays as tight as you suggest, he becomes easily exploitable. On top of that, an inexperienced player will surely over value certain hands and not be in a position to properly adjust to board texture, understand the power of position, bet size appropriately, and a host of other things. I think that this will lead to a negative EV situation.

For the situation the OP is describing, I'd recommend a low variance, slower bet resolution option, like Pai Gow, or Craps Pass or DP.
gamerfreak
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April 5th, 2017 at 2:26:28 PM permalink
I buy in to 3CP for $100, and usually get a few hours out of that playing $10 ante/play.

<$25 minimum Pai Gow or Asia Poker would probably be even better, but I've never seen lower limits on those tables.
Joeman
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April 5th, 2017 at 2:37:29 PM permalink
I would echo the PGP suggestion for the reasons already mentioned -- slow pace, low variance, etc.

If you want to go the poker route, I would stick with 2/4 limit. In the NL game, you could get stacked on your 1st hand. (E.g., You get dealt AA and your opponent puts you all in; 20% of the time, you will go bust.)

If you can read, understand, and apply principals from a book like Lee Jones' Winning Low-Limit Holdem (for beginners) and/or Sklansky/Malmuth/Miller's Small Stakes Holdem (intermediate), you will be a winning player at the "No-Foldem" Holdem tables.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
LuckyPhow
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April 5th, 2017 at 5:54:06 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

<$25 minimum Pai Gow or Asia Poker would probably be even better, but I've never seen lower limits on those tables.



Hmmm... I guess $25+ is standard "Out West" or "Up North." I can often play $10 PGP in Biloxi. Yup, even on weekends.

I agree with others who recommend PGP as a fun. slow, low variance game for the small bankroll player (like me!) And, with 7 cards to sort out, you actually get to "play" your cards. Very fun game.
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
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April 5th, 2017 at 10:13:41 PM permalink
Quote: Joeman

I would echo the PGP suggestion for the reasons already mentioned -- slow pace, low variance, etc.

If you want to go the poker route, I would stick with 2/4 limit. In the NL game, you could get stacked on your 1st hand. (E.g., You get dealt AA and your opponent puts you all in; 20% of the time, you will go bust.)

If you can read, understand, and apply principals from a book like Lee Jones' Winning Low-Limit Holdem (for beginners) and/or Sklansky/Malmuth/Miller's Small Stakes Holdem (intermediate), you will be a winning player at the "No-Foldem" Holdem tables.



Thanks for the game and book suggestions. (Even if it doesn't compete by the originally intended metrics compared to the other suggestions from the thread, I have wanted to get into playing poker just for poker's sake anyway.)
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
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