Mailer Reduction Heat?
I started learning to count BJ in November. It's like a gateway drug, and I fully acknowledge I'm still learning plays, but I've taken to vulturing and I've found a few hole card opportunities as well at several local non-vegas casinos.
I've been playing as a low roller, no single bets over $60, and I've found that I've made a modest amount after about 100 hours of play. I'm still not convinced that I'm actually doing everything right, but I figure time will tell as I rack up more hours.
Anyway, I no longer get any mailers from my local casinos. I used to get a mailer every month from multiple local casinos with bonus comp dollars, free play, drawing entries, free buffets, and things like that... But they have all stopped.
My question is whether this is heat or not. Should I worry about returning? Was it a mistake to use a players card? When I go back, should I stop using a players card?
BTW... The people on this board are AWESOME.
Finally, I'm heading to Las Vegas next week and I'm super pumped!
Quote: prozemaHi,
I started learning to count BJ in November. It's like a gateway drug, and I fully acknowledge I'm still learning plays, but I've taken to vulturing and I've found a few hole card opportunities as well at several local non-vegas casinos.
I've been playing as a low roller, no single bets over $60, and I've found that I've made a modest amount after about 100 hours of play. I'm still not convinced that I'm actually doing everything right, but I figure time will tell as I rack up more hours.
Anyway, I no longer get any mailers from my local casinos. I used to get a mailer every month from multiple local casinos with bonus comp dollars, free play, drawing entries, free buffets, and things like that... But they have all stopped.
My question is whether this is heat or not. Should I worry about returning? Was it a mistake to use a players card? When I go back, should I stop using a players card?
BTW... The people on this board are AWESOME.
Finally, I'm heading to Las Vegas next week and I'm super pumped!
In some places, being "no mailed" is the first counter measure casinos use. I'd stop using your card unless you're already well known by face and name. Definitely don't use it vulturing slots/VP.
I agree with IBYA, but it might not even necessarily be a counter. If you used your card while vulturing and didn't play much other than that (i.e. to your usual levels) you probably killed your own ADT which your casino may base the mail upon. Some make adjustments quicker than others.
Now, the free play offer is very low... $10 per week... I guess I get to make a move now... I'd like to get them to up the offer with our losing my arse.
What would you do?
I could ignore the offer and hope they raise it...
I could play the offer in a HD or a spy vs spy that's all loaded up.
I could play it off in a low edge vp machine
I could play some more live poker or a table game and maybe some ux vulturing would look like I just felt like playing a few hands while I was there to play something else...
One other interesting thing... This is a casino that will change ownership later this year as part of the Penn / pinnacle deal.
If you're truly interested in counting then you need to stay under the radar and not even bother with the mailer freebies in the first place.
Just out of curiosity, what city are you playing at? I think that the smaller, non-Vegas casinos would be less likely to notice, much less catch, a counter in the first place.
Anyway, this casino is in the Midwest. I'm there a lot... Like almost every day. Does a more specific location matter?
Quote: prozemaI've pretty much abandoned counting blackjack in favor of more profitable options. I'm mean if I'm playing blackjack, I probably "kinda" count so I know when to take insurance, but im not going to give up watching a waitress walk away for a quarter of a precent... If I miss a few cards I'm ok with that.
Anyway, this casino is in the Midwest. I'm there a lot... Like almost every day. Does a more specific location matter?
I can't say for sure, but I think that casinos like yours and mine are more like break in casinos for managers who want to move up so they're not as likely to be as skilled and able to pick out counters.
Quote: billryanIt depends. If you are a low roller at some of the bigger places, expect nothing.
Good point. I'll consider that a vote for get as much value as you can out of it and don't sweat it.
On the other hand, while I don't have a top level card, I hit a mid level every year... I'm not playing to hit a card tier.
Quote: prozema
On the other hand, while I don't have a top level card, I hit a mid level every year... I'm not playing to hit a card tier.
I've never made it past a mid tier under any program, nor am I trying, but I don't think it's easy to do as a BJ and Craps player. Only the slot jockeys stand a chance amongst average players.
In April, you may get an offer for December, January, and February. They calculate and mail the offers before your March play has been considered. Many people do not realize this, and the fluctuation on their offers seems like it is calculated randomly.
Just my observation. YMMV
Quote: prozemaThat's a good point. My slot play dropped to almost nothing if you don't count VP. I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts.
This is why your mailers stopped. When did your slot play drop and when did you not get a mailer? Like someone else in the thread said, many casinos use 3 months and skip 1, others use 1 month and skip 1, sounds like it might have just caught up to you. Write things down so you can always look back and figure out what they are doing. Sometimes it's just impossible.
Essentially, every casino's marketing system is different. They weight things differently than others, like theoretical loss, actual loss, time played, and other metrics. Some strictly look at the previous X time period, some look at the previous X, Y, and Z time periods, weighting each differently. Some will give you mail very soon (like 2 weeks) and others may take 3-4+ months. Also doesn't help ALL of these things may change at any given time and IME they can change frequently. It may even be so simple that the casino wants to target smaller players than bigger players so they give out more to smaller players than they did before and take some from the bigger players. Or vice versa. Or maybe they now have a bigger marketing budget or a smaller one. Or their budget is seasonal (trying to get people out to BFE during the winter might be difficult...during the summer, not so much). Many places will give different offers based on your vicinity to the casino.
Hell, maybe they wrote down your address incorrectly and it's not even going to your house.
Ya, I would hate to see what you actully deleted.Quote: RSI wrote out a lot then decided shouldn't post all that.
Essentially, every casino's marketing system is different. They weight things differently than others, like theoretical loss, actual loss, time played, and other metrics. Some strictly look at the previous X time period, some look at the previous X, Y, and Z time periods, weighting each differently. Some will give you mail very soon (like 2 weeks) and others may take 3-4+ months. Also doesn't help ALL of these things may change at any given time and IME they can change frequently. It may even be so simple that the casino wants to target smaller players than bigger players so they give out more to smaller players than they did before and take some from the bigger players. Or vice versa. Or maybe they now have a bigger marketing budget or a smaller one. Or their budget is seasonal (trying to get people out to BFE during the winter might be difficult...during the summer, not so much). Many places will give different offers based on your vicinity to the casino.
Hell, maybe they wrote down your address incorrectly and it's not even going to your house.
Quote: AxelWolfYa, I would hate to see what you actully deleted.
Just the contents of his forthcoming AP book it looks like
The more I think about this thread, I'm landing on "don't play for offers, just consider them icing on the cake."
Maybe I can engineer losses by ratholing chips at a table game...
Quote: prozemaIf anyone ever feels like telling me something that they don't want to say in public, I will gladly accept instant messages. :-)
The more I think about this thread, I'm landing on "don't play for offers, just consider them icing on the cake."
Maybe I can engineer losses by ratholing chips at a table game...
Bingo! ;)
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profit
Hey... If I start pubically ranting about casinos cheating me on Indian soil and being cursed and what not... Will I get a bunch of really subtle hints to go along with non stop ribbing? Just kidding... :-)
I really to appreciate everyone weighing in!
DongQuote: djatcchange your last name to something Asian like
???
profit
Quote: djatcchange your last name to something Asian like
???
profit
Jong un, Kim
Quote: darkozJong un, Kim
LMAO! :D
Ok, here we go...
Try fooling them if you want to but its much better to just relax and enjoy the game.
Is this from personal experience, or is this from what you have heard from others?Quote: FleaStiffFeel free to rat hole all the chips you want to but sometime try asking the Floor: How much is in my rack and how much is in my pocket? Don't be surprised if he gives a response that is exact.
There is an "art" to taking chips off the table undetected. He should be able to do both, enjoy the game and RH. It may or may not help, I doubt it will hurt much.
Both.Quote: AxelWolfIs this from personal experience, or is this from what you have heard from others?
Quote: AxelWolf
There is an "art" to taking chips off the table undetected. He should be able to do both, enjoy the game and RH. It may or may not help, I doubt it will hurt much.
I don't think that there's any "art" to it, especially at a crowded table. While the dealers are settling bets, especially when the point is made or sevened out, they're to busy to even notice. They don't particularly care either.
Quote: Lucca3927I don't think that there's any "art" to it, especially at a crowded table. While the dealers are settling bets, especially when the point is made or sevened out, they're to busy to even notice. They don't particularly care either.
I disagree, there is definitely an art to it. The dealer doesn't care but will tell the pitboss if asked. The best time to do it it is when someone is leaving the table. The pitboss will think that person took the chips.
I don't think much in the way of mailers happen for blackjack play. Your theo is very low and they figure that a $10 match play coupon is not going to bring you back to the property.
Take a look at your win-loss for last year and you might have a good idea of why you are not getting much in the way of offers.
Quote: prozemaDoes the frequency you log on to the casino players club web site to check offers make any difference?
No
Feel free to check as often as you like
I have heard of one casino which logs ip addresses and locks cards if multiple accounts are accessed from the same computer. That's a security issue and wont affect what you are doing
Quote: boymimbo.
Take a look at your win-loss for last year and you might have a good idea of why you are not getting much in the way of offers.
Ok...
The "not for tax purposes" statement for 2017 at the casinos that just started offers again show a win of $220 at one and a loss of $385 at their sister property across town.
The casino that continues to no mail me shows a win of $3,600.
What do I get out of that? There is no breakdown by game.
PS... All these numbers are way off from what really happened.
