LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
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July 5th, 2016 at 12:19:59 PM permalink
I enjoy both Ultimate Texas Hold'em (UTH) and Texas Hold'em Bonus (THB) about equally. Even though THB has a lower (2.04%) house advantage (HA) than UTH (2.185%), I see a LOT more discussion about UTH than THB, perhaps because of UTH's lower (0.526%) element of risk (EoR) than that of THB's (3.51%).

Or, perhaps I see more UTH discussion because there are more UTH tables in the casinos than THB. And, I suppose that UTH's preponderance is for the reason that UTH is somehow a "better" game to play. But, why exactly?

Is it because in THB you have 3 bet units in play in order to see the flop, whereas in UTH, you can see the flop with only 2 bet units? Maybe also because in UTH you can add up to 4 additional bet units, whereas THB allows only 2? Am I getting warmer? Or, is it more complicated?

There is probably an instructive thread from ages ago that explains all this, but I missed it in my search. So, any comments are appreciated.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 5th, 2016 at 1:29:14 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

I enjoy both Ultimate Texas Hold'em (UTH) and Texas Hold'em Bonus (THB) about equally. Even though THB has a lower (2.04%) house advantage (HA) than UTH (2.185%), I see a LOT more discussion about UTH than THB, perhaps because of UTH's lower (0.526%) element of risk (EoR) than that of THB's (3.51%).

Or, perhaps I see more UTH discussion because there are more UTH tables in the casinos than THB. And, I suppose that UTH's preponderance is for the reason that UTH is somehow a "better" game to play. But, why exactly?

Is it because in THB you have 3 bet units in play in order to see the flop, whereas in UTH, you can see the flop with only 2 bet units? Maybe also because in UTH you can add up to 4 additional bet units, whereas THB allows only 2? Am I getting warmer? Or, is it more complicated?

There is probably an instructive thread from ages ago that explains all this, but I missed it in my search. So, any comments are appreciated.



I think it's hard to speak universally, but I think there are several differences that fall to UTH's advantage.

1.UTH has been distributed by SHFL for about a decade now. I think THB has only been distributed by them for about 4 years. It was around before that, but someone else was placing it. I could be wrong. In any case, SHFL is the largest US distributor by far, and they've pushed the game hard all that time. So it's more available.

2. THB requires the 2x follow-on bet to stay in the game before you know whether you have a hand in most cases, and sometimes you've wasted that money when your hand doesn't develop. As you noted. UTH allows you to go to the end with no further investment, and fold if necessary after you have the full picture. Also to bet big on your good hands, and small on others. There's a psychological attraction to controlling the size of your bet to your advantage that's missing on THB.

3. Whatever you do, DON'T get your Royal on THB. It pays 1:1, same as every other win. No sidebet to help with that, either. UTH Blind paytable offers odds on good hands as part of the base game, though the trips bet offers a decent paytable. But those who don't play sidebets still get paid on the base bet for their good hands.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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July 5th, 2016 at 4:30:36 PM permalink
As Babs alludes to, we mostly discuss UTH here because it is much more prevalent in casinos today.
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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July 5th, 2016 at 5:46:18 PM permalink
I have played both a fair bit. On the surface I feel like I would like THB better, however the proper basic strategy is harder to learn and I'm sure I don't know it as well as I should. On the other hand UTH is really brutal in it's payout structure. I think it's a silent killer that most people don't realize is happening to them. You bet 4x and lose, you lose 6 bets. Next hand, you check down to the river and then hit a low straight. Oh then the dealer didn't qualify. You only make back 2 bets. Next hand you bet 4x and win and the dealer doesn't qualify. You just played 3 hands, won 2 but broke even. The newer casinos tend to have UTH. You can't even find it in AC except for the Caesars properties.

I'm a fairly low stakes player and usually play the table minimum. As I played THB I would always think to myself that one of these days I'm due for a royal and I sure hope it's not while playing this game. I was playing UTH a few months ago betting $5-10 like normal. I was down $500 and just about to go on tilt. I had $400 left in my pocket and said I really don't care if I lose it all. I started betting $15 and about 10 hands later got Ace8. I bet 3x without thinking and forgot about it. The dealer flipped the cards over and I noticed there was 4 spades on the board. I couldn't remember what I had. It was a very agonizing 2 minutes waiting until the dealer got to my hand and flipped over the ace of spades for a royal. I guess sometimes it pays to go all in The real crime however, was that the dealer didn't qualify. That's where they get you.
UCivan
UCivan
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July 6th, 2016 at 8:52:08 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Or, perhaps I see more UTH discussion because there are more UTH tables in the casinos than THB. And, I suppose that UTH's preponderance is for the reason that UTH is somehow a "better" game to play. But, why exactly?

"better" game to play??? No way. "better" game for casinos, Yes way.

When a casino replaces THB by UTH, you can be sure that THB is better game to play in turns of odds. For casinos, UTH gains popularity and it gets higher drop because of the enticing paytables on the mandatory Blind bet and the Trip.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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July 6th, 2016 at 8:59:04 AM permalink
Quote: UCivan

"better" game to play??? No way. "better" game for casinos, Yes way.

When a casino replaces THB by UTH, you can be sure that THB is better game to play in turns of odds. For casinos, UTH gains popularity and it gets higher drop because of the enticing paytables on the mandatory Blind bet and the Trip.



Actually, Way.
UTH is better in terms of odds: it has a lower house edge, and pays more on better hands than the Ante bet in THB.
Players decide what's better for them, as they select (vote) for the better product by patronage.
Casino products improve by a process that is very Darwinian in nature. Casinos can't declare a product better without the players making that assessment..
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
DeMango
DeMango
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July 20th, 2016 at 8:21:59 AM permalink
Got a question on UTH, decided not to start a new thread. Playing the ante only (no trips bet). Using BS card, what is the win vs loss % ? Just wondering if it beats 47% bj win rate.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 20th, 2016 at 11:15:28 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Got a question on UTH, decided not to start a new thread. Playing the ante only (no trips bet). Using BS card, what is the win vs loss % ? Just wondering if it beats 47% bj win rate.



Are you talking about % in dollars, or % in hands won, regardless of how much you win or lose? It almost has to be broken down by bet rank, or what point you bet.

Overall, I think you lose a lot more hands than BJ, because you fold a lot of hands you would have won when the dealer has even less nothing than you had. Also, if your hand is only worth 1x, I think you're losing slightly more than winning.

You win more of your 4x bet hands, or you wouldn't bet them then. I think you win slightly more of your 2x hands than you lose, because the flop had to work with your hand, or bs wouldn't say bet 2x.

There is an easy way to know using the Wizard's work. On WoO, he lists a brute force breakdown, that shows on how many hands of each pay scale the player wins, loses, or pushes, further broken down by whether dealer qualifies (because the pays are different). Just add those win/lose/ties up regardless of pay value if you want a simple percentage. Or add them up, weighting them, if you want to know money percentage.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DeMango
DeMango
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July 20th, 2016 at 1:32:51 PM permalink
Yes, I was considering all folds and losses, vs wins. Seeing if this game is a better bet for a D'Alembert Progression than Bac. BJ certainly isn't. But I can play $5 UTH, when the nearby Bac minimum is $15, $25 and sometimes $100 (Beau).
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.

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