Any Fun Pai Gow Poker and Baccarat?

OK, I know they are fun for plenty of guys, not so sure it will hold up for me. These games basically have some attraction with House Edges of around 1 to 1.5 per cent, although that "depends" with PGP. Depending on which one, it's evidently impractical or not possible to reduce this HE, as opposed to Craps, where with free odds one can do so [even though it is not possible to reduce the Expected Value]. Never played them in a Casino. I have played the Wizard's/Bodog's online free games, and I would say these games have a typical pattern I dislike. I'll call it the wobbly downward spiral. Imagine your bankroll circling the drain in a fairly steady decrease, with occasional upward trends while it overall gets closer and closer to the drain. Sure, once in a while you're up to start. Sure, once in a while the player does really well in the whole session. But I always notice there is no doubt the latter is during a streak of uncommonly good luck. Ordinary luck, even to the favorable side, ain't getting it done. I'm just not a gambler who looks to play if it is this sort of pattern. Please tell me I'm all wet! Are my particular set of online game experiences a case of sampling error? [edited]

Looks like these games will have to be my choice for my up and coming visit to FL and the Seminole Casino in Tampa. Your Man in Tampa will dutifully file his report regardless.

I have no experience with Bacarrat.

However, my usage of Pai-Gow Poker is mainly as a time-killer. In Las Vegas, at least, you can get free drinks. So there's nothing like sitting at PGP for several hours while waiting for dinner, or a show, or what-have-you, having as many drinks as you like, and ending up having lost about $3 or so. Once you factor in the cost of the drinks, you're in reality on the positive side.

The other thing I will use PGP for is as a break in between losing sessions of craps. I much more enjoy the high-paced action and camaraderie of craps. However, if the session is a loser, there's nothing better, to me, than sitting at PGP, again for a few hours, and losing only a few bucks. Then going back to the craps table to try again.

Further, PGP has gotten more and more friendly, if you will, so it's fairly easy to find a nice table, with good conversation, a sense of community spirit, and actually enjoy the hours and not really notice how much time has passed.

Having just returned from a very enjoyable (and winning!) Pai Gow Poker session after a more-taxing-than-usual work schedule, I agree with everything konceptum said and will add this:

If you're playing PGP online, the game goes MUCH faster than it would at a real table, so that "circling-the-drain" effect you mentioned probably seems more pronounced.

I'm not a mathematician, so I don't know how much my opinion matters, but I think the house edge on PGP being higher than other games is a bit deceptive. The probability of winning a hand is slightly less than that of losing it, sure, but in between are those ~75% pushes that mean your money will still last a long time, at least in all likelihood. Compare that with blackjack, which has a lower house edge, but plays much faster (at least 1 1/2 hands per minute, even more with a super-fast dealer), with far fewer ties meaning much more violent swings in bankroll. A bunch of bad beats in a row on Pai Gow is no fun, but it will still probably take a while for that to happen. A "bad shoe" in blackjack or 10 "point, 7 out"s in a row in craps (and I have seen it happen) will wipe you out in less than half the time, and that's even worse.

The house edge is an important factor in deciding which bet to make...but it's not the only one. Speed and variance play a big part as well.

Bottom line, I'd recommend giving PGP a try. I think you'll be surprised at how much fun it can be. Some of the other advantages, in addition to the slow pace:

--If you ask, the dealer is required to give you the correct advice on setting your hand according to the house way...so no rolling your eyes at the BJ dealer who rebukes you for not taking even money.
--The camaraderie is there too most of the time, like craps, perhaps even a little friendlier. Since there's no way to "mess up the table" with your play and no dice to get your hands in the way of, people will be more mellow and willing to help you out.
--Comps, at least at some of the casino's I've been to, are still pretty good.

I hope you enjoy Pai Gow if you try it. Good luck!

Man, I would love to go for some gambling-slash-drinking after work. My temporary job over the summer is especially boring and a lot of steam builds up... Too far to the casino, though, from the city I'm living in now (2 hours each way). What casino in S.W.'n Pa. has Pai Gow?

Well, none right now, although both Pittsburgh-area casinos are supposed to have it when their tables finally open next month. In the meantime, Wheeling Island has had it for a couple of years now. Oddly enough, it's just plain vanilla Pai Gow, no Fortune or Progressive bets, which seem to be more and more common these days. On the plus side, if you don't like side bets you don't have to deal with people's comments about not making them either.

That "other" WV casino has it too, but I can't really play there because, well, I work there (and I'm not mentioning the name for that reason, although if you're familiar with the area it's easy to figure it out).

Cool. Whenever I'm at Wheeling, however, the Pai Gow table is never open. Incidentally, do Pittsburghers prefer Wheeling Island or "the other one?" "The other one" is slightly closer but you have to drive over a pretty scary two-lane road to get there.

Quote: OneAngryDwarf

If you ask, the dealer is required to give you the correct advice on setting your hand according to the house way...

thanks for all the input

do you ever worry the dealer isn't up to speed on the above?

Dealers are usually pretty good at knowing the "House Way". Much better than they are at knowing BJ basic strategy.

However, "House Way" is very often not the correct way to play a hand.

Case in point:

Lots of house ways has you splitting a pair of Queens and a pair of twos. However, if you have an Ace and a King, and a pair of Queens and a pair of twos, it's obvious that the AK should go up top.

So trusting the house way is never terrible, but it should only be used if you're a novice.