House Edge Question
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"You can expect a return of 97.2% when you play Let It Ride. This means that per unit wagered the casino's edge is about 2.8%. For every $100 wagered, a player's expected loss is about $2.80."
Based on that, I'm not so sure that we should waste our time with this game unless we shave the payouts a bunch--which we would. However, I went to a website where you could play this game using play money. The website would keep track of all your wagering such as number of hands played, money won/lost, percent win/loss, etc.
Over several days, I played exactly 1,000 hands, which should provide some statistically reliable data, right? I started with $10,000 of play money. I am now down to about $2,200. I am am not playing recklessly either.
Here's the thing that has me confused. After 1,000 hands, it says my loss percentage is like 76.5% and my win percentage is 23.5%. That does not track with a return of 97.2% or a house edge or a measly 2.8%. What am I missing? I'd love to offer a game where we win 75% of the time.
As always, thanks.
Here's the website: http://www.let-it-ride-online.com/
There are plenty of poker variants which are fun - one played in the UK is http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/poker6card.html where the basic game is even money and you can develop a flatter pay-table for the side bet.
Not that I'd want to play at your table if I were gambling (as opposed to donating for charity). I won't play at a table with less than a 50K aggregate payout, (and there are many capped at 25K, usually smaller joints) because it would fry my hair eternally to get a Royal where it was less than a full-pay. But if your players understand and accept that, go for it.
Quote: charliepatrickI am guessing some poker based games, including LIR, have a nice hold provided there isn't a high paying hand dealt. Thus personally I would not offer any game at a charitable event where you would have to pay serious money if an unlikely outcome occured (except the roll N 6's for a car where you've taken out insurance).
There are plenty of poker variants which are fun - one played in the UK is http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/poker6card.html where the basic game is even money and you can develop a flatter pay-table for the side bet.
In my research so far, every charity that offers this game pays 30:1 on a royal flush and, it goes down from there. So, with 3 bets of $5 (the max) the house would lose $450. It stings but it's not the end of the world. paying 1000:1 on a $15 wager would close the tent.
Quote: RivaIn my research so far, every charity that offers this game pays 30:1 on a royal flush and, it goes down from there. So, with 3 bets of $5 (the max) the house would lose $450. It stings but it's not the end of the world. paying 1000:1 on a $15 wager would close the tent.
Then just chop the top pays to 30:1 until you get to the FH, and proceed with the normal paytable from there. You'll still make huge money without shaving the lower amounts, and you'll leave people with a playable game. That will, at least, be an honest paytable that matches your operation.
Quote: beachbumbabsThen just chop the top pays to 30:1 until you get to the FH, and proceed with the normal paytable from there. You'll still make huge money without shaving the lower amounts, and you'll leave people with a playable game. That will, at least, be an honest paytable that matches your operation.
LET IT RIDE!
$1MINIMUM $5 MAXIMUM
ROYAL FLUSH 30:1
STRAIGHT FLUSH 20:1
FOUR-OF-A-KIND 15:1
FULL HOUSE 10:1
FLUSH 7:1
STRAIGHT 5:1
THREE-OF-A-KIND 3:1
TWO PAIR 2:1
ONE PAIR 10+ 1:1
Quote: RivaPerhaps I'm getting my terms mixed up. I'm doing some research on the game "Let it Ride" in order to determine if we should offer this game at our charitable fundraising events. Here's a quote from a website surrounding the game
"You can expect a return of 97.2% when you play Let It Ride. This means that per unit wagered the casino's edge is about 2.8%. For every $100 wagered, a player's expected loss is about $2.80."
Based on that, I'm not so sure that we should waste our time with this game unless we shave the payouts a bunch--which we would.
A career at CET awaits you!
Quote: RivaLET IT RIDE!
$1MINIMUM $5 MAXIMUM
ROYAL FLUSH 30:1
STRAIGHT FLUSH 20:1
FOUR-OF-A-KIND 15:1
FULL HOUSE 10:1
FLUSH 7:1
STRAIGHT 5:1
THREE-OF-A-KIND 3:1
TWO PAIR 2:1
ONE PAIR 10+ 1:1
You're shorting the FH and flush as well. I would advocate you use 11:1 on the FH and 8:1 on the Flush, as shown on WoO and everywhere I've played. And 30-25-20 on the top 3 would be more generous while still making plenty for you, though since your hours are limited, I'd offer it at $2-5 a spot, not $1 minimum.
Your paytable makes a HE of 7.542. Mine would be HE of 6.444. Either one would make you a ton of money. Full pay on the sim you were using (which includes the 3card PP bonus paytable, which you're not offering, and the $1 progressive, which you also aren't using that you've said) was HE about 3.3 for the base game.
Quote: RivaLET IT RIDE!
$1MINIMUM $5 MAXIMUM
ROYAL FLUSH 30:1
STRAIGHT FLUSH 20:1
FOUR-OF-A-KIND 15:1
FULL HOUSE 10:1
FLUSH 7:1
STRAIGHT 5:1
THREE-OF-A-KIND 3:1
TWO PAIR 2:1
ONE PAIR 10+ 1:1
I think I just puked in my mouth a little.
I'm kidding, sort of.
Maybe just a little.
Assuming no strategy changes:
(0.000002 * 90) + (0.000007 * 60) + (0.000007 * 40) + (0.000151 * 45) + (0.000089 * 30) + (0.000643 * 30) + (0.000798 * 20) + (0.000193 * 21) + (0.001773 * 14) + (0.000086 * 15) + (0.001706 * 10) + (0.002133 * 5) = 0.103485
Continued...
(0.007014 * 9) + (0.006329 * 6) + (0.007786 * 3) + (0.011045 * 6) + (0.013136 * 4) + (0.023358 * 2) + (0.049474 * 3) + (0.050935 * 2) + (0.062117 * 1) = 0.602397
Continued...
(0.001021 * -3) + (0.018042 * -2) + (0.742156 * -1) = -0.781303
-0.781303+0.602397+0.103485 = -0.075421 House Edge: 7.5421%
I guess that could actually be worse for a charity thing, with player errors, you might win around 10-15%, I'd assume. I'm not going to analyze strategy changes, but all would just favor letting it ride less often and would decrease the house edge by a small amount, if applicable. As you can see, you only lose two units 1.8042% of the time letting it ride and three units 0.1021% of the time letting it ride, anyway.
With four cards, let's see if the Flush changes, everything else would be the same because the pays are the same. (i.e. straight holds)
(9/48 * 14) - (39/48 * 2) = 1
That still has a positive expectation of one unit, so you'd keep that hold.
I might run over the three-card decisions later, if I have time.
Quote: beachbumbabsYou're shorting the FH and flush as well. I would advocate you use 11:1 on the FH and 8:1 on the Flush, as shown on WoO and everywhere I've played. And 30-25-20 on the top 3 would be more generous while still making plenty for you, though since your hours are limited, I'd offer it at $2-5 a spot, not $1 minimum.
Your paytable makes a HE of 7.542. Mine would be HE of 6.444. Either one would make you a ton of money. Full pay on the sim you were using (which includes the 3card PP bonus paytable, which you're not offering, and the $1 progressive, which you also aren't using that you've said) was HE about 3.3 for the base game.
I thought about including the 3-card Bonus and $1 progressive spots and two red flags pop up in my mind:
1. Our dealers are volunteers (except for craps) and, I'm thinking that these will be confusing wagers. The 3 basic spots is very straightforward.
2. Doing payout math and, making actual payouts takes "time". With a HE of 7.542 and a win percentage of approx. 75%, I want 4 zillion hands dealt per-hour.
With regard to #2, I think that making an investment in a casino-grade, 1-deck shuffler would pay off in clover. Our BJ dealers never shuffle. We do it for them on the side to save time. I think the same benefit would be achieved in this game as well.
Anybody have an idea how much this product costs: http://www.shufflemaster.com/Table-Products/Utility-Products/Poker-Products/Deck-Mate-2
Finally, I like the $2 minimum. I would still keep the max @ $5 to protect the house from bad runs. Also, I would have 3 of these table working in case 1 gets absolutely murdered.
Quote: Riva
Finally, I like the $2 minimum. I would still keep the max @ $5 to protect the house from bad runs. Also, I would have 3 of these table working in case 1 gets absolutely murdered.
Bad runs of what? Consecutive Royal Flushes? With a Maximum Payout, per player, of $500 a $5 bet still returns $450 on your paytable, so I don't see what you could be worried about.
How many players (in a game) can even potentially get a Royal Flush: 1
How many players can even potentially get a Straight Flush: 2
How many players can even potentially get 4OaK: 1
I mean, you're already allowing for a possible win of $450, $300, $225, so really, having a Table Maximum of $10 REDUCES your risk because you get more money in at a positive expectation for the charity, and RF's and SF's don't pay in full.
Quote: Mission146Bad runs of what? Consecutive Royal Flushes? With a Maximum Payout, per player, of $500 a $5 bet still returns $450 on your paytable, so I don't see what you could be worried about.
How many players (in a game) can even potentially get a Royal Flush: 1
How many players can even potentially get a Straight Flush: 2
How many players can even potentially get 4OaK: 1
I mean, you're already allowing for a possible win of $450, $300, $225, so really, having a Table Maximum of $10 REDUCES your risk because you get more money in at a positive expectation for the charity, and RF's and SF's don't pay in full.
Mission..thank you for your input. It is , as always, much appreciated. This is why I visit this site, because I can gather information from knowledgeable people to help our school make more money at our gaming events.
There is another consideration though.... It is very easy to raise our table limits for a game that has a substantial HE. All we have to do is change out the wager limit "tent" that sits on every table (see pic). Takes 10 seconds. However, ( and I have mentioned this previously), the rules governing charitable gaming in the State of Michigan stipulate that the house can only sell $15,000 in artificial money, "chips" per-day. On some days, we sell out by 9:00 PM. http://tinypic.com/r/2w2orjp/8
Well, you may ask, "What's wrong with that?" The answer is, if I can not sell chips to people after 9:00 PM, they won't pay the $5 we charge to enter our event. And, if they don't enter the event, I can't sell them beer and pizza. So, we lose the revenue from both admissions and concessions because we sold too many chips to too few people. It's a fine balancing act we have to follow; get lots of people in the room @$5 per, sell them a moderate amount of chips and have them drink lots of beer. The tables, as you have illustrated, pretty much take care of themselves.
Bottom line, yes we can increase the wagers but we lose on the other two profit centers. And, FYI, if you are caught selling more than the $15K per-day limit, the state will permanently shut down your event. Not worth it.
Quote: RivaMission..thank you for your input. It is , as always, much appreciated. This is why I visit this site, because I can gather information from knowledgeable people to help our school make more money at our gaming events.
There is another consideration though....
Bottom line, yes we can increase the wagers but we lose on the other two profit centers. And, FYI, if you are caught selling more than the $15K per-day limit, the state will permanently shut down your event. Not worth it.
That's definitely understandable, then. Would it be possible to simply have a limit on how many chips a player can buy at any given time, and then take the limit off at 9:00p.m.? That way, you can have the higher table maximums, but the only people that will buy in for more than the maximum amount of chips multiple times will be because they've already gone El Busto, and the players who did not go El Busto will not have bought in for more chips leaving chips remaining to be sold at 9:00.
Quote: Mission146That's definitely understandable, then. Would it be possible to simply have a limit on how many chips a player can buy at any given time, and then take the limit off at 9:00p.m.? That way, you can have the higher table maximums, but the only people that will buy in for more than the maximum amount of chips multiple times will be because they've already gone El Busto, and the players who did not go El Busto will not have bought in for more chips leaving chips remaining to be sold at 9:00.
Mission146..great suggestion however, here's how our event typically goes down....
Our gambling "tent" is just one part of a huge carnival/festival that occurs over the 4-day Memorial-Day weekend. On average, over 200,000 people attend the event, which includes other activities such as a huge midway, food tent, beer tent, arts & craft, etc. It is perhaps larger than many state fairs that occur across the USA.
The "Vegas Tent" opens on a Friday night at 7:00 PM. By that time, there are already 200-300 people standing in line ready to give us their $5 admission fee. On average, most go to the cashier's cage and purchase $50 of chips to gamble with. Some buy $20. Some buy $100 however, on average, it equals out to $50 per person. 50 x 300 =$15,000. It drives me absolutely nuts because we could easily sell 2x, 3x that amount, knowing that for every $1 we put in play, we will keep , on average, 30% -40%, the way our games are structured. In addition, we want to still collect $5 admission from lots of people because, whether they are gambling or not, they are buying beer and pizza while in the tent!
So, respectfully, it's not elevating play later in the night. Our games take care of themselves. Rather, for gaming, it's how do we squeeze the most juice out of the $15,000 per-day wager limit without breaking the law. We know, with 100% certainty, that every dollar that stays in action on the floor, we're going to rake 30%-40% off that dollar. The trouble is, the State only allows us to sell $15,000 per day. It's frick'n maddening!
Quote: UCivanDid u bet $5, a unit? Is there a side bet? If the house edge is 2.8%, u mght expect to lose about 28% (hold) of the
drop.
Not sure 100% what you are asking however, I plan to offer $2 minimum/$5 maximum with 3 spots only. I am thinking the side bets could be confusing for the (volunteer) and slow the game down.
I was referring to tthese numbers.Quote: RivaPerhaps I'm getting my terms mixed up. I'm doing some research on the game "Let it Ride" in order to determine if we should offer this game at our charitable fundraising events. Here's a quote from a website surrounding the game
"You can expect a return of 97.2% when you play Let It Ride. This means that per unit wagered the casino's edge is about 2.8%. For every $100 wagered, a player's expected loss is about $2.80."
Based on that, I'm not so sure that we should waste our time with this game unless we shave the payouts a bunch--which we would. However, I went to a website where you could play this game using play money. The website would keep track of all your wagering such as number of hands played, money won/lost, percent win/loss, etc.
Over several days, I played exactly 1,000 hands, which should provide some statistically reliable data, right? I started with $10,000 of play money. I am now down to about $2,200. I am am not playing recklessly either.
Here's the thing that has me confused. After 1,000 hands, it says my loss percentage is like 76.5% and my win percentage is 23.5%. That does not track with a return of 97.2% or a house edge or a measly 2.8%. What am I missing? I'd love to offer a game where we win 75% of the time.
As always, thanks.
Here's the website: http://www.let-it-ride-online.com/
Remenber that Riva is running a charity game.Quote: Mission146I think I just puked in my mouth a little.
Riva -
Regarding the low return on your 1,000 hand test: I gotta assume you were unlucky enough to never get any of the high paying hands. If you had, it would have put you closer to where you belong.
Do you waive the admission once you sell out? That way you can get spectator that might but some of your beer and pizza. And they might make side deals to buy chips from players heading to the cashier...
Quote: DJTeddyBearRemenber that Riva is running a charity game.
Riva -
Regarding the low return on your 1,000 hand test: I gotta assume you were unlucky enough to never get any of the high paying hands. If you had, it would have put you closer to where you belong.
I got zillions of pairs but most paid 1x.
I got 20 or so triples.
I got one full house.
Nothing higher.
Quote: DJTeddyBearBy the way, every time I read about the restrictions the state puts you thru is when *i* wanna puke...
Do you waive the admission once you sell out? That way you can get spectator that might but some of your beer and pizza. And they might make side deals to buy chips from players heading to the cashier...
Answer: yes. Some buy beer and pizza.
Side deals? probably. However, we can't be a party to it. Did I ever tell you I hate the 15k wager limit!
The other speed bump we face is when a player is able to buy chips and can't get on a game-any game. We fill up pretty fast and it's like the Oklahoma land rush to get on a table--any table. So, if a person comes in and buys say $50 in chips and can't get in a game, any game they usually cash in their chips and leave. That's bad because I can not re-sell those chips. Once retired, they go in to a different bucket.
For that reason, I keep looking to have as many games possible open and running from the starting bell. We have 20 BJ, 10 holdem, two 14' craps, two 20' roulette and 3 big wheels. Soon, I will add 3 let-it-rides and another 9' roulette. Just to give you an idea of how acute this speed bump really is, take a look at the little video. It was taken about 1:50 AM, 10 minutes before we close. Still jammed with players!
http://tinypic.com/r/hrzreq/8
However, it raises the question...how do all these casino supply companies openly sell layouts for this game? Moreover, how do all these party rental companies offer this game (tables) without paying royalties?
Quote: RivaFound something out yesterday while inquiring in to this game further....The game "let-it-ride" is owned and copy-write protected by Bally/ShuffleMaster. I would imagine that casinos everywhere pay a licensing fee to have this game in their facility.
However, it raises the question...how do all these casino supply companies openly sell layouts for this game? Moreover, how do all these party rental companies offer this game (tables) without paying royalties?
Important caveat: I am not a Patent Attorney. This is the information I see on this, but you should proceed with a professional attorney, not just take this and run with it.
The founder of Shufflemaster invented the game "Let It Ride" (source; Wikipedia). The issue date was Feb 5, 1993, US Patent 5,288,081. That means that the patent is expired on the base game (not on the bonuses and other features they offer currently; they have separate, later patents on those), as of Feb 5, 2013 (source; patentbuddy).
They also hold trademark and copyright to the name, the image, the layout (wiki again), that I believe are still in force/have been renewed. I do not know where the line is drawn between (it may overlap) the procedures of dealing the game, the math behind it, or the rules used in their version.
There are knock-off versions of the game all over the internet. They do not use the exact name or logo, but they do use the same rules of play. There are different pay-tables out there; I don't know if their paytables are protected property.
Shufflemaster (now Bally) has a large and active legal department. No idea how vigorously they are pursuing the knock-off operators, if at all. Also no idea whether they would allow you to work something out with your non-profit operation reference their rights.
All FWIW.
Quote: beachbumbabsImportant caveat: I am not a Patent Attorney. This is the information I see on this, but you should proceed with a professional attorney, not just take this and run with it.
The founder of Shufflemaster invented the game "Let It Ride" (source; Wikipedia). The issue date was Feb 5, 1993, US Patent 5,288,081. That means that the patent is expired on the base game (not on the bonuses and other features they offer currently; they have separate, later patents on those), as of Feb 5, 2013 (source; patentbuddy).
They also hold trademark and copyright to the name, the image, the layout (wiki again), that I believe are still in force/have been renewed. I do not know where the line is drawn between (it may overlap) the procedures of dealing the game, the math behind it, or the rules used in their version.
There are knock-off versions of the game all over the internet. They do not use the exact name or logo, but they do use the same rules of play. There are different pay-tables out there; I don't know if their paytables are protected property.
Shufflemaster (now Bally) has a large and active legal department. No idea how vigorously they are pursuing the knock-off operators, if at all. Also no idea whether they would allow you to work something out with your non-profit operation reference their rights.
All FWIW.
Thanks for the input.
I am very sensitive to copy-write infringement. Several years ago, a company I hired a marketing company to do a direct mail piece for me and they simply lifted some artwork out of a stock art book without paying the $50 per-year royalty fee. Long story short...it cost me/them $70,000. Fortunately, I had errors and omissions insurance--but still!
It seems strange that of all the games in a casino, craps, roulette, black jack etc., have no copy-write protection. They are simply ancient games that have traveled through time. I am thinking that one of the reasons this game is protected is because it requires that a new deck of cards be shuffled for every hand. And, ShuffleMaster is in the automatic card shuffling machine business. So, not only does casino have to pay a royalty to have the game in their casino, in all likelihood, I'm betting that a shuffling machine purchase/lease is part of that contract.
Checking around, it seems that virtually every casino party rental company openly advertises this is a game/table for clients to rent. One would think that Bally/ShuffleMaster would have a legal field day chasing those people for copy-write violations. Very strange.
Quote: RivaAnybody have an idea how much this product costs: http://www.shufflemaster.com/Table-Products/Utility-Products/Poker-Products/Deck-Mate-2
I would guess that you have to be a real casino to get one. I would further guess that they're usually leased. I wouldn't be surprised at a price of a few thousand a year, which probably puts you out of the market several different ways.
I might look at a Shuffle Tech ST1000 and an FMK.
I don't normally suggest that shuffler, I have no direct experience with it, but I would guess that the "7" option is possibly adequate for your purposes.
Having watched their demo videos online, I know that I can do the same moves at least as fast by hand, and I'm not a professional dealer. The speed advantage comes from it being able to shuffle while you're dealing a different deck.
From a game security standpoint, you'll need to count down the decks periodically - hourly dealer changes are a fine time for that.
Quote: RivaSo, respectfully, it's not elevating play later in the night. Our games take care of themselves. Rather, for gaming, it's how do we squeeze the most juice out of the $15,000 per-day wager limit without breaking the law. We know, with 100% certainty, that every dollar that stays in action on the floor, we're going to rake 30%-40% off that dollar. The trouble is, the State only allows us to sell $15,000 per day. It's frick'n maddening!
Well that's $15k more than the state allows most people to sell in casino chips :)
Quote: DieterI would guess that you have to be a real casino to get one. I would further guess that they're usually leased. I wouldn't be surprised at a price of a few thousand a year, which probably puts you out of the market several different ways.
I might look at a Shuffle Tech ST1000 and an FMK.
I don't normally suggest that shuffler, I have no direct experience with it, but I would guess that the "7" option is possibly adequate for your purposes.
Having watched their demo videos online, I know that I can do the same moves at least as fast by hand, and I'm not a professional dealer. The speed advantage comes from it being able to shuffle while you're dealing a different deck.
From a game security standpoint, you'll need to count down the decks periodically - hourly dealer changes are a fine time for that.
I will check in to that machine. It might be the answer. Again, we plan to have 3 let-it-ride tables with a card shuffling station right behind them. Using dozens of decks, there should be ZERO down time between hands, except for rakes and pays. Hopefully, we'll then get about 40 hands per-hour/per-table during a 8-hour shift.
Quote: RivaBTW..what is a "FMK"?
It's an option that goes with their shuffler.
If you're using one per table, it allows you to mount the shuffler flush with the table top... it's a Flush Mount Kit.
My understanding is this makes it less noisy, and streamlines the appearance.
If you're shuffling behind the scenes, I see no advantage to getting a machine shuffler (or three).
The Shuffle Tech option is less than $1000, so it really is reasonable to buy one and see if it does what you want. On the other hand, if you've got 3 volunteers to shuffle and run cards, and a few extra decks, there's probably no advantage to spending the money.
Quote: DieterIt's an option that goes with their shuffler.
If you're using one per table, it allows you to mount the shuffler flush with the table top... it's a Flush Mount Kit.
My understanding is this makes it less noisy, and streamlines the appearance.
If you're shuffling behind the scenes, I see no advantage to getting a machine shuffler (or three).
The Shuffle Tech option is less than $1000, so it really is reasonable to buy one and see if it does what you want. On the other hand, if you've got 3 volunteers to shuffle and run cards, and a few extra decks, there's probably no advantage to spending the money.
Actually, I finally figured out what "FMK" means. Thanks.
I am thinking that for "let it ride", continuously hand-shuffling for 3 tables can become quite arduous after even after short while. For our black jack game, we have six, 8-deck shuffle machines for 20 tables. It takes about 12 volunteers continuously shuffling and running new blocks out to the tables and bringing spent cards back. It's worth the effort because it decreases down time by about 80%-90%. FWIW---it requires about 160, 8-deck "blocks" to make this process work for 20 BJ tables. It's a real hoot.
For Let it ride, to achieve the same 90% "up time" for 3 tables, its going to take about 60 single decks, specifically 3 always working, 40 shuffled at the ready and 15-20 always in the process of being re-shuffled. The turn will be many times faster than 8-deck BJ.
Quote: RivaActually, I finally figured out what "FMK" means. Thanks.
I am thinking that for "let it ride", continuously hand-shuffling for 3 tables can become quite arduous after even after short while. For our black jack game, we have six, 8-deck shuffle machines for 20 tables. It takes about 12 volunteers continuously shuffling and running new blocks out to the tables and bringing spent cards back. It's worth the effort because it decreases down time by about 80%-90%. FWIW---it requires about 160, 8-deck "blocks" to make this process work for 20 BJ tables. It's a real hoot.
For Let it ride, to achieve the same 90% "up time" for 3 tables, its going to take about 60 single decks, specifically 3 always working, 40 shuffled at the ready and 15-20 always in the process of being re-shuffled. The turn will be many times faster than 8-deck BJ.
Riva,
If it were me, I'd have one person walking from table to table (since you're putting them in a group), shuffling the used deck from each. 20 minute shift, then the hands get cramped; perhaps in the dealer rotation of 5 (deal an hour, take a 20 min break, shuffle 20 min, deal again). The timing of 1 shuffling 3 single-deck tables should be about right.
Also when I ran a charity event we used 3-deck shoes for Blackjack, shuffled a bit but not casino strength, and everything else was hand-dealt. If you only run the shoe 1/2 through and do a quick shuffle it's possibly ok.
With over 5% HE, you can afford some (not too) sloppy dealing - swap dealers around every half hour if you're worried. Obviously with BJ you can't easily raise the HE (except try BJ pays 1-1 AND a draw ticket - don't need halves), so might have to look for counters if using a shoe.
Quote: charliepatrickJust my thoughts - it's for charity so the dealer's hopefully won't be cheating (one way or the other) and hopefully won't be colluding. With one deck why isn't it a hand shuffle (similar to rubber bridge), offer a player a cut, and hand deal with cutting cards to save the bottom card. Surely much quicker, that's what we did.
Also when I ran a charity event we used 3-deck shoes for Blackjack, shuffled a bit but not casino strength, and everything else was hand-dealt. If you only run the shoe 1/2 through and do a quick shuffle it's possibly ok.
With over 5% HE, you can afford some (not too) sloppy dealing - swap dealers around every half hour if you're worried. Obviously with BJ you can't easily raise the HE (except try BJ pays 1-1 AND a draw ticket - don't need halves), so might have to look for counters if using a shoe.
Riva's problem is that he's only open for a few hours compared to a casino, so he needs to cycle as many hands as possible. If each dealer shuffles 30 seconds/hand, he might lose 10 hph x 3 over the 6 hours he's open that night. So instead of 40hph x 6 hrs x 3 tables for 720 hands, he only gets 30 hph x 6 hours x 3 tables for 540 hands, or 25% reduction of profitability. And no way to make that time up.
Quote: beachbumbabsRiva's problem is that he's only open for a few hours compared to a casino, so he needs to cycle as many hands as possible. If each dealer shuffles 30 seconds/hand, he might lose 10 hph x 3 over the 6 hours he's open that night. So instead of 40hph x 6 hrs x 3 tables for 720 hands, he only gets 30 hph x 6 hours x 3 tables for 540 hands, or 25% reduction of profitability. And no way to make that time up.
Babs...."precisely!"
The H/E is built in so, the object is to get as many hands (spins/rolls, etc.) in per-hour, without allowing for huge variance on big hits (royal flush).
Decks of cards are not a problem: a local casino donates 5 gross-per week, if we can use them (we use 10 gross per-year!)
Volunteers are not a problem. We have over 3,500 volunteers however, not all want to work in a gambling tent, let alone shuffle cards for an entire 8-hour shift.
