I finally saw the notorious "Chinese baccarat superstition" with my own eyes.

I've always been quite curious about the superstitious Chinese people when it comes to baccarat. I've noticed that unlike most Americans, who knows they are losing and playing for fun, these Chinese people actually think they can beat baccarat. I've previously admitted I can not relate to people who play -EV games for fun. But much more so I can not relate to people who play a VERIFIED -EV game thinking they can beat it. What's even more intriguing is it's not even about a specific personality that is this way, it's an entire nationality!

Previously, to attempt to satisfy my curiosity, I sat down and watched some Chinese play baccarat at my local casino. Decided to talk to them. Started with small talk and chit chat. And then I tried to probe the conversation in the direction of why they think they can win this. They didn't have trouble explaining the procedure like "I'm going to bet banker now because the previous 3 were banker" but when it comes to method, they had extreme difficulty explaining it to me. One of them eventually said, I just don't think it can be done in English, you have to know Chinese. The others agreed.

A few weeks has passed since then. I suddenly came across the idea to use search engines and google translate to find out what they are saying. I used the Chinese google "Baidu" to search for baccarat. Then I tried to find anything that looks like a "guide to win baccarat" and use google translate to translate the page.

I did that on 3 sites and I'll share the best (most legible) one here, as the other 2 I couldn't understand anything that is translated. At least in this one the first part is somewhat legible.

The strategy part of this article makes no sense, so I decided to ask my Chinese friend (who knows nothing about gambling) to help me interpret it. He told me that the author decided to write in ancient Chinese in the bottom half of the article. He said that Chinese people do this a lot to flaunt their literacy and it pisses him off because it's hard to read for everyone else. He told me "village" means banker and "idle" means player and I still couldn't understand anything from it. Oh well, at least the first part of what to do before playing is kinda legible. I asked him what all the big deal about "gold, fire, wood, etc" is and he said that's the Chinese Feng Shui (superstitious system). I've always heard that term but now I see it in action.

I tried not to laugh while reading it. But I just couldn't. After half way through the laughter disappeared and was more like "wtf". By the end of it was more like "wow..."




I don't know what to say, except wow... I do think I understand these people better now after reading the "pre-war preparations" So I may not understand the gibberish of the actual baccarat strategy section, but I now see what superstitious is. Why have I not read any superstitious Chinese writings translated into English before? Perhaps the Asian guy at my casino was right, it can not be said in English. Or perhaps the English editors and translators minimize and remove the superstitious words that they don't think Americans can understand. Fortunately I don't need to know anymore, this time I've seen it with my own eyes.


Here's the actual article

http://www.macau77.com/ShowNews2.asp?ID=2199

Your browser should automatically ask if you want to translate that into English, press yes.

Love it, thank you.

There is a tendency in so many people to ritualize the pastimes they feel passionate about - and it doesn't have to be rational. Asian Gambling (like American crap playing) has its own sets of fabricated and built-up sacraments. There's really nothing to Baccarat, like Roulette - pick Player, Banker, or tie. Some poker players even joke they play Baccarat to get a break from gambling.

Quote: Neutrino

I've previously admitted I can not relate to people who play -EV games for fun.

They're called gamblers. When you play for the expectation of action, you're guaranteed your action. When you play for the expectation of profit, then there are no guarantees.

Quote: Neutrino

I've previously admitted I can not relate to people who play -EV games for fun.

Variance. Sure I can mindlessly count cards and break-even-ish, but then I like playing Ultimate Texas Hold'em to hit that straight flush and feel the rush. Overall, I do expect to lose money (from my gambling budget).

Quote: Neutrino

What's even more intriguing is it's not even about a specific personality that is this way, it's an entire nationality!

Self selection. You don't see Chinese people who aren't superstitious about baccarat in casinos. You could probably say that all the Chinese people you've seen playing baccarat in casinos are superstitious, but they are probably on the tail ends of the distribution (though I do think that Chinese people are more superstitious in general, but not as much as the baccarat players).

Quote: Paigowdan

There is a tendency in so many people to ritualize the pastimes they feel passionate about - and it doesn't have to be rational.

For the most part, I don't think they can be rational.

Take me. I usually set the dice before throwing them. I know the result will be random, yet that doens't stop me from feeling I have a better chance to win if I set them. Usually I'll make sure a 6 or 8 is showing, but not always. Sometime I even palce a die on top of the other and throw.

If I forget to set them, or I'm told not to (happened once), or set them wrong, I'm still ok because I do know it doens't really matter.

Quote:

There's really nothing to Baccarat, like Roulette - pick Player, Banker, or tie.

People who take superstitions seriously can be a pain in the neck (and elsewhere). My mom told me once of frineds of her who were playing baccarat in Vegas and loosing. Then the dealer told them they were playing wrong (HOW???) and told them how to bet. Naturally, in this distorted view of reality, they won big.

The superstition here is that there is a "right" way to play baccarat which gurantees winning. Any game like that would never be installed in a casino (exceptions to some rather subtle mistakes we have seen posted about here). But no amount of explanations about how baccarat works and the amth invovled would change her mind.

And yet, the most ridiculous thing she ever told me about gambling happened on my last trip. I called her during the trip and mentioned I'd hit 4 deuces twice for a $250 payoff. She told me "Don't give it back. Stop playing anything right now!" I had over a week left in Vegas. Can you imagine not gambling at all for that long? Ridiculous, yes? Enjoying the play for days and days is far more valuable than a modest win at 5 cent VP.

Quote: Neutrino

I've always been quite curious about the superstitious Chinese people when it comes to baccarat. I've noticed that unlike most Americans, who knows they are losing and playing for fun, these Chinese people actually think they can beat baccarat. I've previously admitted I can not relate to people who play -EV games for fun. But much more so I can not relate to people who play a VERIFIED -EV game thinking they can beat it. What's even more intriguing is it's not even about a specific personality that is this way, it's an entire nationality!

Previously, to attempt to satisfy my curiosity, I sat down and watched some Chinese play baccarat at my local casino. Decided to talk to them. Started with small talk and chit chat. And then I tried to probe the conversation in the direction of why they think they can win this. They didn't have trouble explaining the procedure like "I'm going to bet banker now because the previous 3 were banker" but when it comes to method, they had extreme difficulty explaining it to me. One of them eventually said, I just don't think it can be done in English, you have to know Chinese. The others agreed.

A few weeks has passed since then. I suddenly came across the idea to use search engines and google translate to find out what they are saying. I used the Chinese google "Baidu" to search for baccarat. Then I tried to find anything that looks like a "guide to win baccarat" and use google translate to translate the page.

I did that on 3 sites and I'll share the best (most legible) one here, as the other 2 I couldn't understand anything that is translated. At least in this one the first part is somewhat legible.

The strategy part of this article makes no sense, so I decided to ask my Chinese friend (who knows nothing about gambling) to help me interpret it. He told me that the author decided to write in ancient Chinese in the bottom half of the article. He said that Chinese people do this a lot to flaunt their literacy and it pisses him off because it's hard to read for everyone else. He told me "village" means banker and "idle" means player and I still couldn't understand anything from it. Oh well, at least the first part of what to do before playing is kinda legible. I asked him what all the big deal about "gold, fire, wood, etc" is and he said that's the Chinese Feng Shui (superstitious system). I've always heard that term but now I see it in action.

I tried not to laugh while reading it. But I just couldn't. After half way through the laughter disappeared and was more like "wtf". By the end of it was more like "wow..."

Show Spoiler

Macau casino winnings Raiders


First, the pre-war preparations:
 
1, to avoid near Macau gambling before sex, and women do best not to bet that before the 1-2 days, so as not to vent infuriating.

2, do not go and his own character clash casinos, such as the wood is not going to hit hi there pitched casinos, such as Golden Sands, Golden Dragon. Hi fire is not going to hit the water in the casino, such as Venice and so on. Kim is with God or God's joy can go to the Lisboa Casino Lisboa Casino feng shui because the pattern is wood, gold can be wood, must be harvested. Five grams: metal, wood, wood overcomes earth, earth grams of water, water, fire, fire grams of gold. Five elements: gold water, wood fire, aquatic wood, fire, earth, earth gold

3, according to their own decision to go one direction Five casinos, such as the five elements of fire hi going to the south of the casino, like water, went to the north of the casino, like gold went west casino, like wood go east of the casino, go to the middle of the hi soil casino. Best to calculate their spirit of joy and with God.

4, enter the casino time: a gold in the 15:00 to 7:00 this time to (gold most popular), to a wood (wood most popular), is to be in the water 3:00 to 7:00 this time at 21:00 to 1:00 this time (the most popular water), is a fire in the morning to 9:00 to 13:00 during this time (the fire most popular), to the territory of 1:00 to 3:00, 7:00 -9 points, 13:00 to 3:00, 19:00 to 9:00 this time (soil most popular). Over time win or lose should go.

5, into the casino to bring some fiscal reminder items such as brave, three-legged toad, topaz and other reminders of fiscal items, into the gate to read some of the spell. As Compassion, heart and so on. Not read by mobile phones can also play to the casinos do not have to read it. Do not go into the main entrance of the casino, casinos in Macau is very powerful feng shui office, before entering the casino to draw four vertical and five horizontal character, to the East first breath, then dry with his left palm to write a word, write with his right hand to prove safety, do not open the left Do not look back.

6, the best first before going to the temple to burn incense in Macau, add some sesame oil money.

7, into the casino's position: to use the art of Qi Men Dun Jia calculated. Miracle Fighters Only eight doors opened, Hugh, was born three guitar door, means the direction of the so-called Kat Kat door to door that day. As Kat doors in the West, we must first travel to the West more than 15 minutes before transfer to the destination, if the destination already in the West, you can go directly to the time to go out.

8, clothing: Five hi fire wear red clothes, hi five elements of water wear white clothes, the five elements Xijin of wear yellow clothes, hi five elements earth wear gray clothes, hi five elements of wood wear green clothes.

9, before going to Macau, first with the I Ching math, count to go well Gua, Gua on a whim a bad day to go, as calculated dry, Thailand, benefits and other good Gua went, as calculated by the loss, Mingyi , insanity, is not a bad economy, such as the date of Gua on a whim.

10, must bring enough enough money to Macau, said this ostentatious.

11, before gambling can not shower, wash your hair, shave, go to the casino toilet look easy.

I don't know what to say, except wow... I do think I understand these people better now after reading the "pre-war preparations" So I may not understand the gibberish of the actual baccarat strategy section, but I now see what superstitious is. Why have I not read any superstitious Chinese writings translated into English before? Perhaps the Asian guy at my casino was right, it can not be said in English. Or perhaps the English editors and translators minimize and remove the superstitious words that they don't think Americans can understand. Fortunately I don't need to know anymore, this time I've seen it with my own eyes.


Here's the actual article

http://www.macau77.com/ShowNews2.asp?ID=2199

Your browser should automatically ask if you want to translate that into English, press yes.

I've dealt this game for years, and still have no real idea what patterns the players are looking for. The only one i know is 'Ding Dong' (where it swings back and forth between Bank and Player... BPBPBP etc.) When this occurs, the players tend to bet the minimum or relatively small, as if they're unsure or suspicious about it.

The looking for patterns aspect of it is essential to the games success, IMO. Obviously its all nonsense, but without this element, it just becomes a complicated way of tossing a coin (with a tie thrown in every now and again).

Also, it's a far more entertaining game if the players are allowed to 'squeeze' the cards (some casinos allow it, some don't). It gives the player a sense of involvement and interaction, and possibly a (misguided) feeling of influencing the action, similar to the player throwing the dice in Craps, as Nareed mentioned. Or edge sorting if its Phil Ivey. Seeing a player squeeze, shout at, and blow on the cards can be a show in itself.

Quote: ShineyShine

It gives the player a sense of involvement and interaction, and possibly a (misguided) feeling of influencing the action, similar to the player throwing the dice in Craps, as Nareed mentioned.

While I doubt a player can influence the dice, they do determine the result of every every throw.

Sometimes I will see ahooter do things rather consistently. Set the dice the same way, throw the same way, aiming at the same spot, using the same strength. And I wonder, then, if doing things this way tend to produce some numebrs over their statistical likelyhood.

Probably not. but when I see a player engage in some silly ritual (myself included) which results in a decent roll (ie more than one point, place and come hit for me), I think "let them do as they please."

Quote: Neutrino

I've previously admitted I can not relate to people who play -EV games for fun. But much more so I can not relate to people who play a VERIFIED -EV game thinking they can beat it. What's even more intriguing is it's not even about a specific personality that is this way, it's an entire nationality!

Show me a game with +EV and I will retire and play tomorrow. "Variance" is what players play for. The house is the "bank", taking money from A,B,C and D and paying E, meanwhile keeping his / her cut. The cut is the House Edge. Every player images himself / herself as player E; and with the help of some superstitions, he may be the chosen E, by the gambling God. Developing the proper yet unimaginable actions to win is the same as testing Chinese herbal medicine; some may work. No big deal.

Quote: Nareed

While I doubt a player can influence the dice, they do determine the result of every every throw.

Sometimes I will see ahooter do things rather consistently. Set the dice the same way, throw the same way, aiming at the same spot, using the same strength. And I wonder, then, if doing things this way tend to produce some numebrs over their statistical likelyhood.

Probably not. but when I see a player engage in some silly ritual (myself included) which results in a decent roll (ie more than one point, place and come hit for me), I think "let them do as they please."

I'm certainly no expert on Craps, and have absolutely no intention of wading into the dice influencing debate. The comparison i was trying to make was the interaction it gives the player. As i said, im no expert on Craps, so maybe not a valid comparison.

Quote: ShineyShine

I'm certainly no expert on Craps, and have absolutely no intention of wading into the dice influencing debate. The comparison i was trying to make was the interaction it gives the player. As i said, im no expert on Craps, so maybe not a valid comparison.

Oh, I just meant that ritual or no ritual, each shooter determines the result by shooting the dice.

Quote: Nareed

Oh, I just meant that ritual or no ritual, each shooter determines the result by shooting the dice.

Ok, sorry, misread it to mean that the shooter was influencing the dice. Yes, absolutely, they are determining the outcome.

Quote: UCivan

Show me a game with +EV and I will retire and play tomorrow. "Variance" is what players play for. The house is the "bank", taking money from A,B,C and D and paying E, meanwhile keeping his / her cut. The cut is the House Edge. Every player images himself / herself as player E; and with the help of some superstitions, he may be the chosen E, by the gambling God. Developing the proper yet unimaginable actions to win is the same as testing Chinese herbal medicine; some may work. No big deal.

Let's see... blackjack, poker, ultimate x vulture, progressive jackpot, online bonus, general promotions, loss rebates...

Without +EV games I wouldn't be calling myself AP

Quote: Nareed

The superstition here is that there is a "right" way to play baccarat which gurantees winning.

Betting banker every hand is technically the "right" way to play baccarat, but it obviously does not guarantee winning. It amazes me how none of the superstitious system I've seen are banker bets with varying bet sizes. All of them are "I predict B or P is going to happen next with my chi" So every time they bet player, they're making the house edge harsher on themselves.

Quote: Neutrino

Betting banker every hand is technically the "right" way to play baccarat, but it obviously does not guarantee winning. It amazes me how none of the superstitious system I've seen are banker bets with varying bet sizes. All of them are "I predict B or P is going to happen next with my chi" So every time they bet player, they're making the house edge harsher on themselves.

I dont think they put too much thought into the house edge. They obviously trust their 'pattern' system much more, so if this tells them to bet Player, that's what they'll do, regardless of whether its mathematically wrong to do so.

Quote: Neutrino

Betting banker every hand is technically the "right" way to play baccarat, but it obviously does not guarantee winning. It amazes me how none of the superstitious system I've seen are banker bets with varying bet sizes. All of them are "I predict B or P is going to happen next with my chi" So every time they bet player, they're making the house edge harsher on themselves.

You know, assuming they know the house edge and all the relevant odds, I can see why doing the same bet over and over while making no other decisions would render this an awfully boring game to play.

It would be a bit like playing craps with only the pass line and odds. While that is a good way to play, it also means you get no "action" in most throws of the dice. That's why I play pass/odds, place 6 & 8 and two or three come/odds as well. This gives me plenty of action in a good roll.

Understand by playing Neutrino. Buy in next time and play for 90-120 minutes.

Quote: Neutrino

Let's see... blackjack, poker, ultimate x vulture, progressive jackpot, online bonus, general promotions, loss rebates...

Without +EV games I wouldn't be calling myself AP

I call myself many things too; an expert is one of them.

Is it really superstition playing a low house edge game which requires no strategy? When they go left or right, whatever they play, aren't both bets about the same?

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Is it really superstition playing a low house edge game which requires no strategy?

It is what it is. You can call it superstition or belief in forces that you can tap into.

Although Einstein's famous rebuke is repeated everywhere, some people forget that the theories that he was reacting too are now universally accepted as the truth.

Quote: pacomartin

It is what it is. You can call it superstition or belief in forces that you can tap into.

Although Einstein's famous rebuke is repeated everywhere, some people forget that the theories that he was reacting too are now universally accepted as the truth.

However:
1. God plays dice.
2. He allows people to play dice.

Gambling is not superstition if you have a realistic expectation of not always winning.

It is observing with your money on the line. Along for a ride.

what does "god does not play dice with the universe" mean to others? im not sure how to interpret that. like should i take it literally that there is order to the universe even though it appears random or should i infer there is no god because the universe is random.

Quote: rudeboyoi

what does "god does not play dice with the universe" mean to others? im not sure how to interpret that. like should i take it literally that there is order to the universe even though it appears random or should i infer there is no god because the universe is random.

I take it to mean the universe is predictable and understandable.

Quote: rudeboyoi

what does "god does not play dice with the universe" mean to others? im not sure how to interpret that. like should i take it literally that there is order to the universe even though it appears random or should i infer there is no god because the universe is random.

It means Einstein did not care for "spooky action at a distance" ;)

Quote: rudeboyoi

what does "god does not play dice with the universe" mean to others? im not sure how to interpret that. like should i take it literally that there is order to the universe even though it appears random or should i infer there is no god because the universe is random.

Einstein did not like the Uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics, which means (as I understand it) that in subatomic partcicles anything can happen and events are not deterministic but probabilistic. You can never predict how a subatomic particle will behave, but only assign probabilities.
And as the universe is the sum of all the subatomic particles, that also applies to the universe.

Taking it more philosophically, nothing is deterministic and everything is probabilistic.
You can never predict absolutely what effect an action will have, you can only assign probabilities.
Cause and effect are not absolute.

Quote:

10, must bring enough enough money to Macau

I endorse this superstition.