odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 29th, 2014 at 7:23:59 AM permalink
Besides a Craps game with good free odds, is there any other table game meeting the criteria of having a low HE with high variance? For acceptable HE I really want something considerably less than 2%.

Some Video Poker qualifies, but I am thinking of table games.

Recently I played some BJ with liberal rules including surrender. I don't count cards, so there was no chance of slipping into a +EV situation; this is typical gambling for me. I sort of enjoyed myself, but I also made myself quit playing after a couple of shoes. I really think this is the way to go, knowing that the variance is so low. The conservative player can find a low HE BJ game and take his chances without feeling like a degenerate, but IMO you sit down and either get lucky right away, or forget it.

So you can see I believe BJ regardless of rules for the recreational player is just not a game to get too excited about.

This always takes me back to Craps. Is there really no other game meeting the above criteria? I'm thinking that if there is such a game, it's a 'lurker', and would involve a side bet ... after all, although it seems never to be called that, the free odds in Craps is really a side bet, and knocks down the HE to less than 1%. The WoO site isn't going to be any help since the Wizard is allergic to side bets. And it may just be true that no other such combination exists. We just have Craps at less than 1% HE, high variance, all else unacceptably high HE, high Variance notwithstanding?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
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April 29th, 2014 at 7:59:05 AM permalink
If you don't get lucky right away in blackjack, increasing your bet increases variance.

Three card poker, compared to blackjack, has about a 300% increase in house edge (perfect strategy, 100% for average player) and a 50% increase in variance. It is probably the lowest HE game besides the games you already mentioned (excluding games with lower variances than blackjack) at just over 2%.
Mission146
Mission146
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April 29th, 2014 at 8:01:09 AM permalink
http://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/

Check out Paytables 1 & 2 on the Trips bet, though Paytable 2 is certainly not, 'significantly lower,' than 2%, it is a bit lower.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Paradigm
Paradigm
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April 29th, 2014 at 8:21:04 AM permalink
UTH, just the base game fits the bill and is why it is so popular. With an Element of Risk of 0.53% and standard deviation of 4.94 (vs. BJ at 1.15), I think the base game alone meets your requirements.
Mission146
Mission146
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April 29th, 2014 at 8:22:26 AM permalink
That's true, if one wants to look at the EoR as opposed to the HE, but I assumed the question to be HE specific.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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April 29th, 2014 at 8:31:54 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

That's true, if one wants to look at the EoR as opposed to the HE, but I assumed the question to be HE specific.



EoR is a good way at looking at HE; we consider the HE on craps including odds. Pretty much the same here, the money in action at risk, the aggregate edge on the action in play.

If you look at the daily numbers of a Heads Up Hold 'em or UTH game, daily hold numbers are like: -65%, +92%, 1%, 55%, -20%....It takes weeks, even months to average out, but hold generally averages out to about 29%. A small card room is really gambling also with these Hold 'em games. Pai Gow Poker and Roulette are much smoother on a short term basis.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
jml24
jml24
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April 29th, 2014 at 8:36:55 AM permalink
This is why, as a recreational gambler, UTH is my favorite table game. I don't feel like I am getting completely screwed by a ridiculous HE (I think the EOR is more applicable given the nature of the game.) The higher variance means I walk away with a decent win sometimes.

If the goal is to get on the upside of a big swing sometimes you can also play a low variance game and start pressing your bets once you are up a little bit.
ahiromu
ahiromu
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April 29th, 2014 at 8:40:13 AM permalink
Just wanted to chime in and say that you can alter the variance with a betting strategy. If you increase your bet size after every win and revert to your base bet on a loss, you could walk away with a lot of money on a good streak. Don't double it after every win though... Gotta take a profit somewhere.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Paradigm
Paradigm
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April 29th, 2014 at 8:53:02 AM permalink
Teliot was right on in his book 'Contemporary Casino Table Game Design' when he wrote "....that variance is the product customers are purchasing by playing a casino game. The only difference between two casino games is the amount of variance they offer and the wrapper that variance comes in."
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 29th, 2014 at 9:30:13 AM permalink
Thanks for the replies, I'll check some of this out.

Quote: Sonuvabish sig line

Smoking is exactly like owning a chimp.



OK, I'll bite, how is smoking like owning a chimp?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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