Roulette with house edge 1.35% ??

Does anyone know Roulette 73? Single zero, 73 numbers? House edge would be 1, 35%.

Here's their website. It looks like they have 72 numbers and 0. 1/73=1.369863%. if their target was a 1.35% edge, they should have gone with 73 numbers and 0 (1/74=1.35135%)

I love the "author of the product" section. The silhouette is priceless.

BTW, European roulette already has a house edge of 1.35%. The even-money bets are typically subject to la partage, cutting the house edge in half.

Quote: MathExtremist

I love the "author of the product" section. The silhouette is priceless.

BTW, European roulette already has a house edge of 1.35%. The even-money bets are typically subject to la partage, cutting the house edge in half.

LOL! I hadn't clicked on that part until now. that's great. There's a reference on that page that I don't understand. "I have a patent for the game in European Union, other countries of the Hague Convention countries, United States, Canada, Australia, Hong Kong, Macau, China, Russia, Costa Rica, Argentina, etc." Unless someone is abducting or adopting a child as a part of this game, I really don't see what the Hague Convention(s) have to do with anything.

Best roulette ever? House edge is.... fantastic! Where can I find this wheel? I want to try it.

So we have a new-member first post OP to ask about a new game, then later a new-member first post declaring how fantastic the game is.

Is this a marketing maneuver?

No. talking beetwen the players. I am a system player, expected win beetwen 40 and 100€ per hour. French roulette gives you 25-30 spins per hour. Is this enough? Y, if playing 4 tables..

Jeez, I wass thinking 60 + Zero with some color but thats 1.64% :oP

Quote: MathExtremist

BTW, European roulette already has a house edge of 1.35%. The even-money bets are typically subject to la partage, cutting the house edge in half.

It is true, but as far as I know the European roulette only in the case of simple bets - where the chance of win is divided in half (red, black, odd, even ....) only when zero falls, when any other number is determined by the wheel (house edge ) is 2.7%. At Roulette73, the (house edge) of 1.37% applies to all numbers at simple bets ... You can not say that the European roulette and the Roulette73 have the same (house edge) because it’s simply not true.

Theoretical Casino is dying for it, but the rest I doubt want the exposure. I would like it for shooting daggers for a big win though. I'd like to see casinos make you bet $5-10 straight up just to get inside. I don't know why, but I like the idea or maybe a wheel with 146 slots. 292 would just be crazy though.

You'd need to get double the action to make the same money as a regular table... Don't think that's realistic as most gamblers have never even heard of or contemplated house edge...

If you could make money by halving the house edge, then I'm sure the few single 0 roulette tables in the US would be cash cows, but I don't think this is the case... Betting on the intelligence of gamblers is not a great strategy for a new game in my opinion! Still, good luck with it.

Quote: 13s

You'd need to get double the action to make the same money as a regular table... Don't think that's realistic as most gamblers have never even heard of or contemplated house edge...

If you could make money by halving the house edge, then I'm sure the few single 0 roulette tables in the US would be cash cows, but I don't think this is the case... Betting on the intelligence of gamblers is not a great strategy for a new game in my opinion! Still, good luck with it.

Using your logic, it would make more sense to put 3 zeros, 4 zeros, 5 zeros, or 6 zeros on the wheel and keep the pays all the same.

Do you have in your mind a chart of how much actual money is made from a game long term as a function of the number of zeros on the wheel using known statistics for single, double-zero, or single with la-partage, or are you just believing things without actually using your brain.

I think the argument that "Americans are stupid," which it seems to me that you are using for gamblers extends to individuals including executives at the largest gaming manufacturers who use house edge as a selling point to a casino as if the house edge percentage is directly proportional gaming revenue.

I recently had a discussion along these lines with David Schwartz at his office in UNLV. He seems to see things from a different view from yours, and he's basically in charge of analyzing statistics relating to total gaming revenue compared to such things as average house edges. He also has evidence that contradicts your view and the view of other executives in the casino and gaming industry.

When I read reports such as Fantini's that say things like,

Quote: Fantinis_April_30th_2014

REVENUE REPORTS: NV
• NEVADA. Once more, baccarat drove Las Vegas Strip win higher in March as
casinos played lucky, which could portend good news when bac-sensitive Wynn Resorts
reports first quarter results on Thursday.
Baccarat drop grew only 0.69 percent over last year, but win percentage was a
healthy 14.83 percent vs. 11.15 last year.

I don't think about how Nevada's problems would be solved if Baccarat had an 13.4% house edge like many slots on Caesar's properties have. I think, instead, about how few casinos currently get good Baccarat action because they simply don't understand the players who are bringing this revenue to the town of Vegas and instead think more like the expression you made in your post about how important it is to have a high house edge to eliminate exposure.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2598381/1BILLION-month-Ladbrokes-crack-cocaine-machines-Secret-document-reveals-huge-profits-Downing-Street-announces-crackdown-terminals.html

This story also reminds me of the quote, "You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once."

Right now one of the big stories that keeps getting forwarded to me being a former Atari employee is about the E.T. dig in New Mexico.

Part of what should have been learned there is about the greed of human psychology to take as much as possible until you go bust.

Normally this applies to the gamblers, but even the house can get greedy enough to bust out. It's not that hard to see if you're looking.

Following the above story (1 billion per month) that just doesn't sound sustainable to me, and I'm not the world's foremost expert on earnings for gambling revenue in this region, but I would be surprised if they continued making that much money for long. They may have a story similar to the E.T. story soon where they are burying (many/most) of those terminals.

OTOH, maybe they will make mods for triple, quadruple, or quintuple zero and make 2B, 3B, or even 5B per month.

Quote: Ahigh

Using your logic, it would make more sense to put 3 zeros, 4 zeros, 5 zeros, or 6 zeros on the wheel and keep the pays all the same.

Do you have in your mind a chart of how much actual money is made from a game long term as a function of the number of zeros on the wheel using known statistics for single, double-zero, or single with la-partage, or are you just believing things without actually using your brain.

I think the argument that "Americans are stupid," which it seems to me that you are using for gamblers extends to individuals including executives at the largest gaming manufacturers who use house edge as a selling point to a casino as if the house edge percentage is directly proportional gaming revenue.

I recently had a discussion along these lines with David Schwartz at his office in UNLV. He seems to see things from a different view from yours, and he's basically in charge of analyzing statistics relating to total gaming revenue compared to such things as average house edges. He also has evidence that contradicts your view and the view of other executives in the casino and gaming industry.

When I read reports such as Fantini's that say things like,



I don't think about how Nevada's problems would be solved if Baccarat had an 13.4% house edge like many slots on Caesar's properties have. I think, instead, about how few casinos currently get good Baccarat action because they simply don't understand the players who are bringing this revenue to the town of Vegas and instead think more like the expression you made in your post about how important it is to have a high house edge to eliminate exposure.

Are you sure baccarat is really making money for the house? We have a ton of professional Bac players who have winning bac systems. And casinos seem to let them play as much as they want without heat.

Quote: AxelWolf

Are you sure baccarat is really making money for the house? We have a ton of professional Bac players who have winning bac systems. And casinos seem to let them play as much as they want without heat.

Exhibit A on why lower house edges are desirable.

Continuous come betting with max odds on a 10x table is easily a lifetime winning solution for as long as you wish to play the game. But most people still lose doing this (more than half).

Same is true for betting your entire net worth once on a single bet. That's a system. It's called "bold play."

The house still makes money though.

So yes.

Yes Yes Yes.

Haha wow ok your reply suggests a vested interest!

I was not suggesting that high house edge is a desirable factor as of course the players will react negatively when edge is raised in an overt fashion... And I wasn't trying to suggest that more zeros is going to mean more profit because clearly players will p*** off and exit the game.

My point, specific to roulette, is that there are clearly established norms depending on your region. In the US, double zero is the norm and as such it is accepted. In most other places globally, a single zero is accepted (and in some places the edge is halved on even chances as noted)...


My point was that I don't believe the reduction in the house edge will result in the player rush you seem to think. Roulette is purely a game of chance and house edge is not dependent on player skill. For this reason many "knowledgeable" gamblers avoid the game. Those that do play (and I'm talking about the inside number players here) spread their chips around with wonton abandon and I don't think they'd notice the fraction of the extra payout their possession due to the lower house edge...

eg: Regular roulette - I put two chips on 1 straight up, 1 is spun, I'm paid 70 chips (plus I have 2 still on the number) = 72 chips
Roulette 73 - I put 1 chip on 1 and one chip on 37, 1 or 37 is spun, I'm paid 71 chips (plus my 1 on the number) = 72 chips...


The chance of winning my bet is slightly better in Roulette 73 (2 in 73 or 2.74%) as opposed to Regular Roulette (1 in 37 or 2.70%) for the same payout...

Is this going to be enough of an advantage for me to want to have to spend all the effort it takes to put double the chips on? Doubtful.

Plus players attempting to bet sections are going to have to calculate the number 36 more than their desired numbers they bet on which will be physically further down the layout which will make it awkward from a design point of view...


Blackjack Switch is successful with a low HE because the strategy errors increase edge. I don't believe that decreasing the house edge of a pure game of chance is going to be a successful strategy to get a placement.

As a side note, the typos on the website aren't a great look!


As I said before - good luck to those involved... I like the concept but just don't think that in the real world it will appeal as much as you seem to believe.

In the US the game is a non-starter because any casino could just try out this strategy by rolling out a single zero roulette, so my question is why aren't they?




* As far as me believing things "without using my brain", I'm trying to look at things objectively from both sides. I'm not so sure that that's true of everybody here! Comparing Roulette to Baccarat is foolish because of the cultural significance of the game among Asian players. Baccarat survives on such a low HE because of the massive money played. The players willing to play such large action on Roulette are not nearly as plentiful and I would have thought the developers of a roulette game would have known that.

REASONS AND ADVANTAGES FOR GAMBLING ROULETTE 73
Advantages that attract players to the game of Roulette 73, are mainly the following:
New game - the mere presence of Roulette 73 in the casino, casino playrooms or its advertising billboards attracts the players. Attractive and interesting game encourages players to try their fortune with anticipation of winning;
The spectacular game- the size, the greater amount of numbers and countless possibilities to combine, are the reasons that attract the system players and players that prefer the higher numbers (in compare with the current 36 on classical roulette);
High payouts - all winnings are much higher than at the classic roulette (in accordance with the probability account), which is a magnet for players looking for a higher one-bet gain;
Favorable ratio of input-win - playing Roulette 73 means half the size HE in compere to the classic roulette, which provides to the players a chance of lower daily losses, increased their daily gains or allows them a longer playing time and the sense of fun.

Quote: polivalo

REASONS AND ADVANTAGES FOR GAMBLING ROULETTE 73
Advantages that attract players to the game of Roulette 73, are mainly the following:
New game - the mere presence of Roulette 73 in the casino, casino playrooms or its advertising billboards attracts the players.

Is that proven at all, or just hoped for?

Quote: Doc

So we have a new-member first post OP to ask about a new game, then later a new-member first post declaring how fantastic the game is.

Is this a marketing maneuver?

Now, it looks like we have 3 new members for this one game. I can't imagine this game getting many installs because you must convince a casino to replace a standard roulette table. To make sense, this game would require more than 4x the wagers.

Not gonna comment at all on whether this would be more or less profitable, but FWIW, I think people would prefer the tradition 36 numbers. So it'd be better to just put two of each of those 36 numbers on the wheel, and just have one zero. If you really wanna jazz it up for some reason maybe make each number have both a black and red counterpart, or make there be 4 colors.

Not that I think that either are great ideas, but I just think 73 numbers is just too many for people who like roulette. They like what they're used to, even if there is some potential small market for little twists on the original game.

Quote: Boney526

Not gonna comment at all on whether this would be more or less profitable, but FWIW, I think people would prefer the tradition 36 numbers.

As one Silicon Valley executive said, that is a problem which will solved acturially. Gambling is in transition. Casinos welcome a great deal of "new" not all of it turns out to be better.

Casino patrons are a mix. Young and old. Drunk and sober, singles, couples, threesomes, foursomes, etc. Knowledgeable and ignorant. Whimsical and predictable.

I understand that there are four casinos in Vegas that offer an American wheel with European rules, but I don't see any mass migration to their roulette wheels. (Wynn, Bellagio, MGM, Mirage). The Stratosphere is in a difficult area but those who do go there enjoy good bargains. Rooms that, for the money are good, wifi without anyone chasing you out of the comfortable seats if you stay on the internet too long, and they have a good roulette wheel. The Rio's wheel doesn't count because the only one allowed to play it is the owner's wife. People who are already at the Stratosphere get a good gamble for their money, (ten dollar minimum) but few go to the Stratosphere if they can afford the Venetian or something.

Casino executives know the industry is in a flux, things are changing and I don't think any of the old rules are sacrosanct. Crapless Craps was strange to those who know a craps layout, but it survived. So a wheel that is 73 numbers instead of 37 or 38 is not necessarily a problem.

The Hard Rock recently "bought" the loyalty of PT customers thru a tie in with their players club and holding PT events at the Hard Rock. The PT customers only can gamble at 15 machines but when they arrive at the Hard Rock they have a great deal more available to them and a 73 slotted wheel will be just as new to them as a 38 slotted wheel would be.

Quote: FleaStiff

As one Silicon Valley executive said, that is a problem which will solved acturially. Gambling is in transition. Casinos welcome a great deal of "new" not all of it turns out to be better.

Casino patrons are a mix. Young and old. Drunk and sober, singles, couples, threesomes, foursomes, etc. Knowledgeable and ignorant. Whimsical and predictable.

I understand that there are four casinos in Vegas that offer an American wheel with European rules, but I don't see any mass migration to their roulette wheels. (Wynn, Bellagio, MGM, Mirage). The Stratosphere is in a difficult area but those who do go there enjoy good bargains. Rooms that, for the money are good, wifi without anyone chasing you out of the comfortable seats if you stay on the internet too long, and they have a good roulette wheel. The Rio's wheel doesn't count because the only one allowed to play it is the owner's wife. People who are already at the Stratosphere get a good gamble for their money, (ten dollar minimum) but few go to the Stratosphere if they can afford the Venetian or something.

Casino executives know the industry is in a flux, things are changing and I don't think any of the old rules are sacrosanct. Crapless Craps was strange to those who know a craps layout, but it survived. So a wheel that is 73 numbers instead of 37 or 38 is not necessarily a problem.

The Hard Rock recently "bought" the loyalty of PT customers thru a tie in with their players club and holding PT events at the Hard Rock. The PT customers only can gamble at 15 machines but when they arrive at the Hard Rock they have a great deal more available to them and a 73 slotted wheel will be just as new to them as a 38 slotted wheel would be.

Who is PT?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Who is PT?

Sorry. I'm not sure of the corporate history. I think at one time Herbst owned them, I'm not sure. PT is a reference to the chain of Burger and Beer bars around town that offer cozy nooks and comfortable upholstered chairs and usually a separate gaming room full of Video Poker machines. They are a sort of "yuppie-oriented" bars that draw alot of singles and offer a fairly extensive menu of both beer and food in a more quiet subdued atmosphere than a noisy, crowded casino.

There are about twenty such places, usually on the outskirts of Las Vegas and although all start with PT there are PT's Pubs, PT's Places and PT's Gold which indicates whether they have 15 or 35 machines, how complete their kitchen is, etc. They have email lists for their regulars and have various specials from time to time. The Hard Rock agreed to let them hold certain larger events at the Hard Rock and to honor the PT players club cards. This means the Hard Rock has in effect purchased the loyalty of yuppies who frequent Burger and Beer bars but only play Video Poker there.

That roulette73 game has a major disadvantage in my opinion. The fact that the colors are not alternating. This perfect alternation of colors and (almost perfect alternation of) High and Low numbers is one of the main reasons that make (especially European) roulette such a beautifully balanced game and its wheel a work of art and mathematics.

Quote: MathExtremist

I love the "author of the product" section. The silhouette is priceless.

BTW, European roulette already has a house edge of 1.35%. The even-money bets are typically subject to la partage, cutting the house edge in half.

House edge of European Roulette is 2.70%
Math??

Quote: pushmycar

Best roulette ever? House edge is.... fantastic! Where can I find this wheel? I want to try it.

For trying it You will need to travel to Europe. I advise You to contact Explora (Slovenian travel agency) for plane ticket and/or accomodation.

Quote: pushmycar

French roulette gives you 25-30 spins per hour. Is this enough? Y, if playing 4 tables..

@pushmycar in US there is tipically around 60 spins per hour, in Europe there's normally only 30-35 spins per hour. Despite that European Casinos are far more profitable than US counterparts (there were some researches done about it).

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Theoretical Casino is dying for it, but the rest I doubt want the exposure.

Casinos are not dying for it. Lower house edge is worse for Casino, not better. For that reason it is not present in many Casinos..
Another reason is the lack of understanding of the profitability of games by Casino managemennt ....

Quote: polivalo

REASONS AND ADVANTAGES FOR GAMBLING ROULETTE 73
Advantages that attract players to the game of Roulette 73, are mainly the following:
New game - the mere presence of Roulette 73 in the casino, casino playrooms or its advertising billboards attracts the players. Attractive and interesting game encourages players to try their fortune with anticipation of winning;
The spectacular game- the size, the greater amount of numbers and countless possibilities to combine, are the reasons that attract the system players and players that prefer the higher numbers (in compare with the current 36 on classical roulette);
High payouts - all winnings are much higher than at the classic roulette (in accordance with the probability account), which is a magnet for players looking for a higher one-bet gain;
Favorable ratio of input-win - playing Roulette 73 means half the size HE in compere to the classic roulette, which provides to the players a chance of lower daily losses, increased their daily gains or allows them a longer playing time and the sense of fun.

There are reasons and advantages for players to play.
I can see one disadvantage - placing bets probably takes longer which lowers number of spins. This may be of advantage, as well - longer playing time.

For those that do not understand what Ahigh wrote - the "house edge" itself is theoretical (!!) advantage Casino has in worst case scenario. It is the earning of Casino in case there's bet on all numbers and in such a case "0" is the advantage the Casino has. Talking about "house edge" shows lack of understanding as Casino earns 14% on Baccarat with house edge of 1.24%.

Unfortunatelly I met many Casino Managers suffering of lack of understanding of the math behind.
Double zero ("00") in US shows this. They rely more on "house advantage" than on whole equation. For that reason I doubt there will be Roulette73 in USA any time soon.
Think of this other way - if there is wager on only one number ("straight"), what is the house advantage for the Casino??

Quote: Classic

Quote: MathExtremist

I love the "author of the product" section. The silhouette is priceless.

BTW, European roulette already has a house edge of 1.35%. The even-money bets are typically subject to la partage, cutting the house edge in half.

House edge of European Roulette is 2.70%
Math??

He was probably meaning the French Rules with imprisonment, of course, that also only applies to Even Money bets.

Quote: Classic

For those that do not understand what Ahigh wrote - the "house edge" itself is theoretical (!!) advantage Casino has in worst case scenario. It is the earning of Casino in case there's bet on all numbers and in such a case "0" is the advantage the Casino has. Talking about "house edge" shows lack of understanding as Casino earns 14% on Baccarat with house edge of 1.24%.

Unfortunatelly I met many Casino Managers suffering of lack of understanding of the math behind.
Double zero ("00") in US shows this. They rely more on "house advantage" than on whole equation. For that reason I doubt there will be Roulette73 in USA any time soon.
Think of this other way - if there is wager on only one number ("straight"), what is the house advantage for the Casino??

One could say not knowing the difference between hold and house edge shows a lack of understanding.


Yes, the house edge is theoretical, but that doesn't mean it's just all make believe and can be ignored. Casinos rely on the house edge to make money, not luck or whatever else people believe.