craps tipping costs/hour

okay here are the 4 different ways i consider tipping when im betting the right way. what is the cost per hour for each one of these options? assume 100 rolls/hour.

A) everytime the point is a 6 or 8. toss a $1 hardway for that point as a tip.

B) everytime the point is a 4,6,8, or T. toss a $1 hardway for that point as a tip.

C) everytime the point is a 6 or 8. bet a $1 hardway for that point for yourself. then parlay it two-way if it hits. so $5 and $5.

D) everytime the point is a 4,6,8, or T. bet a $1 hardway for that point for yourself. then parlay it two-way if it hits. so $5 and $5 on the 6 and 8 and $4 and $4 on the 4 and 10.

I think I can speak on the behalf of dealers that they would prefer you not waste their tips on sucker bets like the hard ways. They usually won't tell you at the table, for fear of looking rude or ungrateful. However, 9%-11% of the tip is lost due to the house edge. You might think it is more fun for the dealers to get a tip on the hard ways, but the dealers in front of you aren't going to care about a $7 or $9 win split among a hundred dealers.

Another problem with tipping on certain events is that when they don't come up often you'll look cheap. Personally, I just give the dealers a tip directly from time to time, and say "for the dealers." If it is a short session, I'll do so when I leave. If I were to tip for the dealers I would do so on the field. The problem I have with tipping on a line bet is it obligates you to make an odds tip, which may be more than I intended to tip.

Quote: Wizard

I think I can speak on the behalf of dealers that they would prefer you not waste their tips on sucker bets like the hard ways. They usually won't tell you at the table, for fear of looking rude or ungrateful. However, 9%-11% of the tip is lost due to the house edge. You might think it is more fun for the dealers to get a tip on the hard ways, but the dealers in front of you aren't going to care about a $7 or $9 win split among a hundred dealers.

basically im looking for a way for my total expected loss at the table to equal about $10/hr. im continuously making passline and comeline wagers at $3 tables so am losing about $4.20 an hour. i get about 3 drinks every two hours from the cocktail waitress so that figures to be about another $1.50 an hour. so between my theoretical loss on the game and tipping the waitresses im losing about $6/hr. whats a good method to tip about $4 an hour to the dealers? you suggested betting on the field. id like to base when i tip on certain numbers being established as the point.

my quick guess is everytime the point comes up 4 or T. tipping on the field would equal to about losing $4/hr.

a point will be established about 15 times an hour im guessing. so i took (4/15) and times that by 24(the number of combinations used to make a point on the comeoutroll) which computes to about 6. and betting on the 4 and 10 only would be 6 combinations.

Quote: Wizard

Another problem with tipping on certain events is that when they don't come up often you'll look cheap.

the other day when i was playing at the suncoast and bet a $1 hardway on the 6 and parlayed it two-way on the win and they hit, they were ecstatic and very grateful when it hit. but like you said before, id look cheap if none of the hardway bets ever hit. but if im playing at an establishment that i usually play at, they will notice what im doing when i do bet the hardways that im always parlaying them two-way when they hit.

Quote: Wizard

The problem I have with tipping on a line bet is it obligates you to make an odds tip, which may be more than I intended to tip.

yah i feel the same way when youre playing blackjack, youre expected to double down on their tip portion as well and have to put out additional money on their portion when you decide to split.

Quote: rudeboyoi

basically im looking for a way for my total expected loss at the table to equal about $10/hr. im continuously making passline and comeline wagers at $3 tables so am losing about $4.20 an hour. i get about 3 drinks every two hours from the cocktail waitress so that figures to be about another $1.50 an hour. so between my theoretical loss on the game and tipping the waitresses im losing about $6/hr. whats a good method to tip about $4 an hour to the dealers? you suggested betting on the field. id like to base when i tip on certain numbers being established as the point.

If you are not taking full odds, tipping by putting $1 on top of your odds ($2 on 5/9) is a great way to tip in a controlled manner. The dealers love it because you just made a great bet for them.

Quote: RaleighCraps

If you are not taking full odds, tipping by putting $1 on top of your odds ($2 on 5/9) is a great way to tip in a controlled manner. The dealers love it because you just made a great bet for them.

unfortunately for them, im always taking full odds.

actually this is a decent question, can i bet more than full odds on the point if the additional money im betting is for the dealers?

like every time the point comes up 4 or T, put an additional $1 on the odds im already taking.

that way theyre getting a good bet and a decent payout if the point hits, $3 per bet won.

Quote: rudeboyoi

unfortunately for them, im always taking full odds.

actually this is a decent question, can i bet more than full odds on the point if the additional money im betting is for the dealers?

like every time the point comes up 4 or T, put an additional $1 on the odds im already taking.

that way theyre getting a good bet and a decent payout if the point hits, $3 per bet won.

I can answer that question for Harrah's Grand Biloxi, and it was an emphatic NO.

Why concentrate so much on this and try to remember the events and perhaps risk being thought of poorly if the events don't take place for awhile.

Even if you are at a ten dollar table. A simple ten dollar line bet for yourself and a solitary white chip a couple of inches away from it is a good bet. It may only be a buck but its not some long shot that the dealers know is likely to fail them. And if you "add shoes" to it even those odds won't be all that much money. A few whites every now and then won't be noticed by you, but they are noticed by the dealers and the waitresses.

It is extremely rare for any casino to enforce table minimums if the bet is for the dealers but it is unfortunately quite common for a casino to enforce table maximums even if its just a small bet for the dealers on the back of a legitimate bet for yourself.

I know that dealers prefer you to make good bets for them (pass line, with odds, etc.) but if you want to make hardway bets for the dealers, they should still be greatful and appreciative.

Personally, I find that dealer hardway bets are noticed a lot more by the dealers, boxman and the floormen. It is a bet that never goes overlooked, while a pass line bet might be.

Quote: gambler

Personally, I find that dealer hardway bets are noticed a lot more by the dealers, boxman and the floormen. It is a bet that never goes overlooked, while a pass line bet might be.

I wonder if that's because a dealer hardway stays up longer or if it's because it has to squeeze in to a tight layout. Or a combination.

I think one of the reasons they never miss the "Thank You" for bets in the middle is that they are always "noisy" bets--the bet gets called two or three times and acknowledged as a "bet" a couple of times. It also plays into the part of the game they push for the casino by attracting more action to the middle. I don't know how many times a table is playing solidly on the outside and then one person goes to the middle and many follow them with at least a few chips (some of them tips).

The bets get played and resolved; they are taken down or paid. A round of "thanks for the bets" follows.

I still think that over the course of a couple of hours with the dealer rotation going on, everyone of them will notice a consistent bet on the line for the dealers, I have always been thanked for it but sometimes the thanks is from my end of the table and not the stick, too. The thanks always come but it is not always as loud...

I have learned from you guys and I am going to stay out of the middle personally and for the dealers. Why make a bad bet for them if I am not doing it for myself?

It does not matter anymore. This last year I have seen such a change in the attitudes of the dealers. It does not matter if you tip or not. With the fast rotation of the dealers you are going to be giving away a big chunk of your money for just standing there and tipping every rotataion. If you do not tip per rotation the dealers get an attitude. I for one am tired of it. If I tip that once short crew says thank you but the next crews are not aware of it and then you need to tip again. The short rotations are just another way the casinos want you to pay the salary of the crew.

Quote: Wizard

The problem I have with tipping on a line bet is it obligates you to make an odds tip, which may be more than I intended to tip.

I tip on the line and never feel obligated to put an odds tip, though sometimes i will (or sometimes someone else will put a tip on the odds)

Not sure what you mean by short rotations. Normally, at the tables that I play at there are 4 dealers every 8 hour shift where 1 of them is on break at all times. They usually rotate in for 20 minutes on stick, then 40 minutes as a dealer.

Personally, I find myself to be over generous when it comes to tips. But then again, the enjoyment of the game is a bigger factor for me then money. However, I will say that if a craps crew is not appreciative of my tips, I either will stop tipping or find a better table.

Quote: rudeboyoi

i get about 3 drinks every two hours from the cocktail waitress so that figures to be about another $1.50 an hour. so between my theoretical loss on the game and tipping the waitresses im losing about $6/hr.

Do you count tips for cocktail waitresses "losses"? Geez, at a dollar a drink, that's not a loss...that's a very inexpensive drink - DELIVERED TO YOU BY A HOT GIRL AT YOUR REQUEST...

I always tip $2 for an alcoholic drink and $1 for a bottle of water (the latter because most of the time they don't need to make an extra trip, most waitresses carry one or two extras)

As far as the craps crew, I have had great experiences with the crews at the Borgata in AC, the place I play the most. Whenever I roll, I put $1 on the 6 and 8 for the dealers every time I establish a new point. I'll do the same occasionally when others are rolling.

Quote: joenunz

Do you count tips for cocktail waitresses "losses"? Geez, at a dollar a drink, that's not a loss...that's a very inexpensive drink - DELIVERED TO YOU BY A HOT GIRL AT YOUR REQUEST...

i think its pretty ridiculous not to include it. its another cost while im playing the game.

Quote: rudeboyoi

i think its pretty ridiculous not to include it. its another cost while im playing the game.

Huh? If you smoke or chew gum while you play would you add the cost of Marlboros or Wrigley's to your "....total expected loss at the table..." which you are hoping to equal no more than $10/hr.

Maybe this is just semantics and by "loss" you mean "how much I'm willing to spend on entertainment per hour at a craps table"...if so, then it makes perfect sense to me.

I know we have had several posts in this and other threads that feel that tipping might influence comps or decisions on possible dealer errors. This may well be true but I have never seen this happen so overtly that I have noticed. I very seldom make a bet for the `boys`. I do however tip at the end of my playing session. I will tell the dealer in the middle of my session that I will look after him when I`m done if he has pointed out a missed bet or some other help. Since I play very aggressively I usually am not at the table for more than 1 to 2 hours at a time. The amount of the tip will vary with how well I have done. Minimum is usually about $5 but it can be as much $25 or $30 if I have had a good session. The 4 figure wins are usually a black and the few 5 figure wins I have been as much as $500.

Quote: joenunz

Huh? If you smoke or chew gum while you play would you add the cost of Marlboros or Wrigley's to your "....total expected loss at the table..." which you are hoping to equal no more than $10/hr.

Maybe this is just semantics and by "loss" you mean "how much I'm willing to spend on entertainment per hour at a craps table"...if so, then it makes perfect sense to me.

if i usually incur those costs while gambling, i should allocate those costs to gambling.

I bet on the line for table each time I get the dice (if it's busy, maybe every other on a quiet table). If it's a long time for the dice to get round, I'll be when they change direction as well.

Normally a dollar on line, with a buck behind. But I do like the idea of just putting down the bet on the odds instead. I'll probably run it that way next time. Occasionally if I'm really let it hang out, I bet dollar the hard ways, one for the boys.

Normally when I colour up at the end the table gets the shrapnel ($1 chips), and sometimes a red bird or two if I did really well, and they weren't jerks.

I'm not going to be making the crew rich, but I don't think I'm stiffing them.

$4 an hour for a crew of 4 is a $1 onto their wages. If everyone did that at a 10 player table, that's a $10 wage increase... I have no idea if that's good or bad on dealer wages.

I think I am going to tip only when I color up.

i think its more beneficial both for the crew and you by making hardway bets for the crew. its usually announced to the whole table which will help encourage other players to tip them and take the load off your back for a while.

Where I usually play they rotatate the crew at craps/bj every 20 minutes. 3 dealers and stickman. I try to tip at least every rotation and at color up. Usually $5 on pass, $2 on 6/8 hard, and $5 at color up with a $100 buy, 5 table. What is aggrevating me is the dealers general attitude is bad overall. I appreciate good service and will tip, but just service or bad service forget it. I was a waiter and know the difference.

Quote: rudeboyoi

i think its more beneficial both for the crew and you by making hardway bets for the crew. its usually announced to the whole table which will help encourage other players to tip them and take the load off your back for a while.

I don't care how other people tip... that's their problem. I'll tip on the good bets, and end up getting pretty good service on my bets. Most of the good dealers will also make it clear if they have a bet working for them when they rotate.

Poker is a game I always used to tip only at the end of each dealer's down, or if I won a huge pot. This meant every dealer got the same from me. One player has got in my face about not tipping from a mid-sized pot. I shrugged. Every dealer gets some, not only if I win.

other people not tipping shouldnt increase the frequency of which you tip but other people tipping should decrease the frequency of your tip. if other players are making $5 bets for the dealers, im not about to throw out a $1 bet for them too because the other players tips overshadow mine. ill wait for a lull in the tipping by the other players before i go back to my normal tipping routine.