Lock 'n Roll Dice
May 2nd, 2010 at 8:56:22 PM
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This is a new game I just noticed at the Wynn today. Here is a preview of my new page on the game. Any questions or comments before I announce the page to a wider audience?
p.s. Sorry, the title of the game is Rock 'n Roll Dice, not what I incorrectly put for the thread title.
p.s. Sorry, the title of the game is Rock 'n Roll Dice, not what I incorrectly put for the thread title.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 2nd, 2010 at 9:08:07 PM
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I would love to see a picture of the layout for this game. I also wondered how fast the pace of this game would be. If it is like comparing mini-baccarat to big baccarat, it might be better for a player to still play a normal craps game due to its slower pace.
May 2nd, 2010 at 9:18:50 PM
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I was there just a few days after the game opened, so everybody was asking lots of questions, including me. If it were not for that slowing down the game, it would go way faster than craps. However, I've seen a simplified craps game at the Stratosphere before, and it didn't last long. There is an aesthetic to rolling the dice that this game obviously lacks. I tend to think this game won't pull in what a blackjack table does, and thus won't last long either.
About the table layout, there is an image of it on the game web site.
About the table layout, there is an image of it on the game web site.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 2nd, 2010 at 10:50:17 PM
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if you bet $5 on the player's circle, can you bet $6 on the 5 and 9 and $5 on the 6 and 8 for the numbers bet?
i also noticed on the game's website, theres a bonus if you make the point the hardway and get paid 6:5 on your player's circle bet in case you wanted to redo your calculations on your other site.
"For an added BONUS, when the point is a 4, 6, 8 or 10 and is made with Doubles, the Players Circle wins 6 to 5. That is a Hardway Winner. In other words, for every $5 you bet you will win $6 with a Hardway Winner."
im guessing it would be worth (.20)(16/36)(1/36)
or
is it (.20)(10/36)(1/11) + (.20)(6/36)(1/8)
i also noticed on the game's website, theres a bonus if you make the point the hardway and get paid 6:5 on your player's circle bet in case you wanted to redo your calculations on your other site.
"For an added BONUS, when the point is a 4, 6, 8 or 10 and is made with Doubles, the Players Circle wins 6 to 5. That is a Hardway Winner. In other words, for every $5 you bet you will win $6 with a Hardway Winner."
im guessing it would be worth (.20)(16/36)(1/36)
or
is it (.20)(10/36)(1/11) + (.20)(6/36)(1/8)
May 3rd, 2010 at 6:06:40 AM
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JB can fix that. He fixed one for me once. And on that note, you made the same mistake on the game's page.Quote: Wizardp.s. Sorry, the title of the game is Rock 'n Roll Dice, not what I incorrectly put for the thread title.
If you can't use a picture of the layout, at least link to the website, or to the official rules page:
http://rocknrolldice.com/howtoplay.htm
On that page is this image, which helps to make sense of everything. (I took the original and cleaned it up a little).
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/rock_n_roll.JPG
Kinda odd that you can't bet on the numbers 4 & 10.
Since you can only place bets on the numbers immediately after the 'come out roll', and the much limited betting options, this should be a faster game than craps. It has some of the elements of craps, without a lot of the complexity.
Personally, I get that they are trying to play off the "Rock and Roll" name by using the term 'JukeBox', but I feel that this game would be more successful if they called it something like "Mini Craps" and 'field'. And in that manner, it could be an entry-level craps game.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 3rd, 2010 at 6:07:06 AM
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You're right! I forgot about the hard ways rule. There is a 4/36 chance of rolling a qualifying hard way on the come out roll (2+2, 3+3, 4+4, 5+5). There is a ((1/36)/(6/36)) = 1/6 chance of rolling it again before a 7. Doing so will pay an extra 0.2. So that is worth (4/36)*(1/6)*(2/10) = (1/9)*(1/6)*(1/5) = 1/270 = 0.003703704.
Thanks for the correction.
No. I specifically asked that. The dealer said it was a good idea, but he was not trained to allow that.
I asked the dealer about that too. He said he asked that question when he was trained to deal the game. The answer given him was that if the player wants to bet on the 4 and 10, then he can make the Juke Box bet.
Thanks for the correction.
Quote: rudeboyoiif you bet $5 on the player's circle, can you bet $6 on the 5 and 9 and $5 on the 6 and 8 for the numbers bet?
No. I specifically asked that. The dealer said it was a good idea, but he was not trained to allow that.
Quote: DJTeddyBear
Kinda odd that you can't bet on the numbers 4 & 10.
I asked the dealer about that too. He said he asked that question when he was trained to deal the game. The answer given him was that if the player wants to bet on the 4 and 10, then he can make the Juke Box bet.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 3rd, 2010 at 7:10:13 AM
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certainly the name suggests it is supposed to go faster
anytime the overall HE is reasonable it deserves some attention.
what would the house edge be if they allowed a player to bet on the 4 and 10 and thus have bets on all the points?
anytime the overall HE is reasonable it deserves some attention.
what would the house edge be if they allowed a player to bet on the 4 and 10 and thus have bets on all the points?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:10:06 AM
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It's the kind of game I'd expect to see at the Hard Rock casino.
I don't think it will catch on, but we were overdue for a dice-based carnival game. I give better odds of success to rapid craps.
The layout, though, would be good for an electronic dice game with sound effects. It pretty much looks designed for that.
I don't think it will catch on, but we were overdue for a dice-based carnival game. I give better odds of success to rapid craps.
The layout, though, would be good for an electronic dice game with sound effects. It pretty much looks designed for that.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:39:54 AM
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Quote: NareedIt's the kind of game I'd expect to see at the Hard Rock casino.
I don't think it will catch on, but we were overdue for a dice-based carnival game. I give better odds of success to rapid craps.
The layout, though, would be good for an electronic dice game with sound effects. It pretty much looks designed for that.
Actually, I can see it catching on. The tub based craps is an attempt to make a game that is manageable by a single person for small casinos. However, it moves very slowly. This game seems to boil out some of the basics of craps and puts it on a standard table. It has retained some of the group celebration of craps.
I guess the standard for success in a proprietary games is 3-card poker. If you could capture some of that with this game, then it would be a huge success.
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:51:34 AM
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Unless I just don't get when you get the extra .2, your math is off. As I understand you get the extra .2 if you make your point the hard way after establishing it the easy or hardway. For a point of 4 its:Quote: WizardYou're right! I forgot about the hard ways rule. There is a 4/36 chance of rolling a qualifying hard way on the come out roll (2+2, 3+3, 4+4, 5+5). There is a ((1/36)/(6/36)) = 1/6 chance of rolling it again before a 7. Doing so will pay an extra 0.2. So that is worth (4/36)*(1/6)*(2/10) = (1/9)*(1/6)*(1/5) = 1/270 = 0.003703704.
(3/36) establishing a 4 * (1/9) rolling a hard 4 before an easy 4 or 7
The point of 10 is the same. For a point of 6:
(5/36) establishing a 6 * (1/11) rolling a hard 6 before an easy 6 or 7
Ditto for a point of 8.
--
(6/36)*(1/9)+(10/36)*(1/11)=13/297
13/297*(.2)=13/1485= apx 0.008754208754209
--
If you have to roll a hardway for both establishing and making a point it is:
(2/36)*(1/9)+(2/36)*(1/11) =10/891
10/891*(.2)= 2/891 =apx 0.002244668911336
Ok done editing typoes/brainoes
Man Babes #AxelFabulous
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:58:02 AM
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I gave it more thought.Quote: WizardI asked the dealer about that too. He said he asked that question when he was trained to deal the game. The answer given him was that if the player wants to bet on the 4 and 10, then he can make the Juke Box bet.Quote: DJTeddyBearKinda odd that you can't bet on the numbers 4 & 10.
As an 'entry level' into Craps, that kind of answer makes sense.
After all, if you open it up to betting on the 4/10, you might as well allow betting on the 2/3/11/12 as well.
The next thing you know, you start adding this and that and before you know it, you're playing Craps!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 6th, 2010 at 7:19:41 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI gave it more thought.
As an 'entry level' into Craps, that kind of answer makes sense.
After all, if you open it up to betting on the 4/10, you might as well allow betting on the 2/3/11/12 as well.
The next thing you know, you start adding this and that and before you know it, you're playing Craps!
Not to mention, if they add in the 4/10 bet and pay true odds like the others, thats more of a cut in to the HA. Guess they had to cut it off somewhere to retain a slight HA...
May 6th, 2010 at 7:39:32 PM
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Quote: RPToroNot to mention, if they add in the 4/10 bet and pay true odds like the others, thats more of a cut in to the HA. Guess they had to cut it off somewhere to retain a slight HA...
their take is gonna be the same. their swings will just be larger.
however it might lead people to bet less often on the jukebox wager.
May 7th, 2010 at 3:58:54 AM
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Quote: rudeboyoitheir take is gonna be the same. their swings will just be larger.
however it might lead people to bet less often on the jukebox wager.
Ok, now you got me confused. How will the house take be the same if they offer up another "free" bet? I thought it would reduce the house expected take over the long run... ?
May 7th, 2010 at 7:09:16 AM
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Quote: RPToroOk, now you got me confused. How will the house take be the same if they offer up another "free" bet? I thought it would reduce the house expected take over the long run... ?
okay lets say the bet is $100 and the HA is 2% so for every $100 you bet, they take $2 in the longrun. if you bet $400 on the numbers bet ($100 on each) with no HA then your total bet is going to be $500 but they only have an edge on the original $100 bet so you are risking $500 but they are still taking $2 over the combined bet. add in a 4 and 10 for $100 a piece, youre risking $700 now but they only have an edge on the original bet in which they are taking $2. their swings will be larger since theyre essentialy risking $500 to win $2 or $700 to win $2 but its always going to be $2 they are taking from you in the longrun.
May 7th, 2010 at 8:20:52 AM
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Quote: pacomartinActually, I can see it catching on. The tub based craps is an attempt to make a game that is manageable by a single person for small casinos. However, it moves very slowly. This game seems to boil out some of the basics of craps and puts it on a standard table. It has retained some of the group celebration of craps.
Having read some more on the game and having thought it through, I concede it may catch on. I expect I'll check it out next week (yay! I'm finally leaving!) The simplified layout ought to help.
But I maintain what I said ealier, too: it looks made for a rock-themed casino, and also it seems designed for electronic play (much too colorful and graphics-oriented, plus the rock theme cries out for sound effects and background music).
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
