Cardette

Some of you may have seen this game at the games day at Coventry or in Reading; but last week it went into my local casino, and from the few times I've seen it, has been going down well. My only concern for the game: everyone is playing small, so possibly the casino makes little money and when players get a hit they pocket the £25 chips. (It uses 50p roulette chips 50p-£10, with bets on suits and Pot Luck being £5-£200).

The basic game is to bet, like roulette, on the total of the next two cards (Aces always 11) from a continuous 6-deck shoe. The odds range from 150/1 for 4 (2-2) or 22 (A-A) down to 8/1 for 20. There are also others bets based on suits or similar to dozens. The house edge is quite high (think Sic Bo) but for a carnival game people seem to enjoy it.

The novelty is four cards are burnt, then six cards placed face down against boxes 1-6. Two dice, shaken by a dealer then a player (after a pair, one is re-rolled), decide which of the two cards are used. This adds a nice touch and if the dealer turns one card at a time, makes for some suspense (as some totals become more likely and others ruled out). Also in that casino, the sound of the dice is an interesting advertising feature. (Full rules at http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/cardette.html )

One thing, for game designers, is some of the thoughts I overheard. Poker players like it for being a card game (whereas roulette isn't) and, unlike roulette, it doesn't have a "zero" - so they thought it was a fairer game. It seemed very easy for people new to the game to understand it, they saw the layout and understood the concept of the total of two cards. I saw, a la weekend drink, people play - several hit #6=55/1 and went home happy with a few £25 chips. Tonight on a poker break, quite a few gave it a try, although as common numbers appeared most landed up losing.

I was initially surprised that the casino had picked the game - as it didn't seem popular in Reading - but from a game designer's viewpoint I can now see the appeal of such a simple game to pick up and easy for both dealers and players to understand.

Quote: charliepatrick

Some of you may have seen this game at the games day at Coventry or in Reading; but last week it went into my local casino, and from the few times I've seen it, has been going down well. My only concern for the game: everyone is playing small, so possibly the casino makes little money and when players get a hit they pocket the £25 chips. (It uses 50p roulette chips 50p-£10, with bets on suits and Pot Luck being £5-£200).

The basic game is to bet, like roulette, on the total of the next two cards (Aces always 11) from a continuous 6-deck shoe. The odds range from 150/1 for 4 (2-2) or 22 (A-A) down to 8/1 for 20. There are also others bets based on suits or similar to dozens. The house edge is quite high (think Sic Bo) but for a carnival game people seem to enjoy it.

The novelty is four cards are burnt, then six cards placed face down against boxes 1-6. Two dice, shaken by a dealer then a player (after a pair, one is re-rolled), decide which of the two cards are used. This adds a nice touch and if the dealer turns one card at a time, makes for some suspense (as some totals become more likely and others ruled out). Also in that casino, the sound of the dice is an interesting advertising feature. (Full rules at http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/cardette.html )

One thing, for game designers, is some of the thoughts I overheard. Poker players like it for being a card game (whereas roulette isn't) and, unlike roulette, it doesn't have a "zero" - so they thought it was a fairer game. It seemed very easy for people new to the game to understand it, they saw the layout and understood the concept of the total of two cards. I saw, a la weekend drink, people play - several hit #6=55/1 and went home happy with a few £25 chips. Tonight on a poker break, quite a few gave it a try, although as common numbers appeared most landed up losing.

I was initially surprised that the casino had picked the game - as it didn't seem popular in Reading - but from a game designer's viewpoint I can now see the appeal of such a simple game to pick up and easy for both dealers and players to understand.

I think Paradigm will find this most interesting, as it combines dice and cards in a way that was popular with your crowd there. I think I would like to try it if I found it somewhere. Haven't looked at the link yet, but I definitely will. Thanks, charlie!

Quote: charliepatrick

<snip> Full rules at http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/cardette.html <snip>

I think someone has a few errors on their math section, or me and Excel are having a really bad day.
I must not get the Suite and Potluck bets as they are way off.

Total	Combos	Pays	EV
4	276	150	-0.140984417511749
5	576	75	-0.097699727924808
6	852	55	-0.016571852584714
7	1152	40	-0.026465495918872
8	1428	32	-0.028691565669058
9	1728	26	-0.038337867919862
10	2004	22	-0.049962898837497
11	2304	19	-0.050210239920851
12	4308	10	-0.023250061835271
13	4608	9	-0.050210239920851
14	4308	10	-0.023250061835271
15	4032	10	-0.085827355923819
16	3732	11	-0.076923076923077
17	3456	12	-0.07395498392283
18	3156	14	-0.024239426168687
19	2880	15	-0.050210239920851
20	5136	8	-0.047242146920604
21	2304	19	-0.050210239920851
22	276	150	-0.140984417511749

As Babs indicated, I love the card/dice combination, but this is really like the old three dice cups in PGP picking a hand vs. the dice value actually being part of the game outcome.

Pure dice games are difficult enough as I have been told by a couple of well known distributors. There are jurisdictional issues with dice that are avoided with card games. And then I come along and stick cards and dice into a single game concept, wtf? It is a tough road that I recommend to no one :-). I still believe in my dice/card game, it is just on the back burner right now in favor of efforts on Lucky Stiff & Mulligan 21.

I do think there is a better future market for dice/card combination games than there is for new "dice only" games. I just don't think you improve on craps if you are using only dice....Even with three dice and a "hip hop" culture (read: 3 Dice Cee Lo, 456, Cee Lo, etc.). But Raving next week could prove me wrong as there are two "3 Dice Cee Lo" entries in the Show next week.

The hurdle for Cee Lo is: "Why would my players play this game vs. craps?" If the two exhibitors have a good answer for that question that resonates with table game executives, the 3 Dice Games have a shot at getting a trial. When I left the table after playing Cee Lo at G2E in 2012, I didn't have a good answer to that question.....but then again, I think there is a future for card/dice combination games, so what do I know!!

Quote: miplet

I think someone has a few errors on their math section, or me and Excel are having a really bad day.
I must not get the Suite and Potluck bets as they are way off.

I get the same results as miplet for 6 decks. I also must not be understanding the pot luck bets correctly, and I can't even figure out how the suit bet might work from the description.

In addition, I also get a couple of different house edges for the 1 deck game than those given, for totals of 16 & 17.

Total	Combos	Pays	EV
16	102	11	-0.076923077
17	96	12	-0.058823529