Why do people make side bets?
May 1st, 2013 at 12:00:21 PM
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Why do people make side bets on table games? Do gamblers want more action, don't want to be the idiot if the jackpot hits, or some other reason. I would really like to hear from people who make side bets. Although, I am interested in the opinion of all.
May 1st, 2013 at 12:21:31 PM
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Most don't want to miss out if they get the qualifying hand.
May 1st, 2013 at 12:22:28 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 1st, 2013 at 12:41:22 PM
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Those who play side bets generally know they are sucker bets, but also say "To hell with the house edge, I want the action."
Personally, I don't play side bets. In fact, I generally don't play table games BECAUSE of the side bets. Or more specifically, because of the envy and angry stares I get when I finally get a hand that would have paid.
For what it's worth, my Poker For Roulette side bet doesn't generate that type of envy. And that's one of the reasons that the only side bet I play is the FireBet. The other reason is that it's a single bet for the duration of the shooter.
Personally, I don't play side bets. In fact, I generally don't play table games BECAUSE of the side bets. Or more specifically, because of the envy and angry stares I get when I finally get a hand that would have paid.
For what it's worth, my Poker For Roulette side bet doesn't generate that type of envy. And that's one of the reasons that the only side bet I play is the FireBet. The other reason is that it's a single bet for the duration of the shooter.
Last edited by: DJTeddyBear on Mar 21, 2021
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http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 1st, 2013 at 12:41:58 PM
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I'm assuming you mean "Make side bets with their eyes wide open."
Because we don't gamble all that often, and prefer to pay the price for the thrill of possibly trumping the odds with variance.
Because we don't gamble all that often, and prefer to pay the price for the thrill of possibly trumping the odds with variance.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 1st, 2013 at 1:38:07 PM
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Because they have wives and girlfriends who encourage it and dealers who either hawk the bets also or atleast remind the player that marital harmony will only cost them one dollar.
Sure some people think its a good deal and some people are mainly interested in the free drink rather than the bet anyway, but what ever the situation, the better player often confuses the return of Blackjack with the return of a slot machine.
Sure some people think its a good deal and some people are mainly interested in the free drink rather than the bet anyway, but what ever the situation, the better player often confuses the return of Blackjack with the return of a slot machine.
May 1st, 2013 at 2:11:58 PM
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The only side bet I play regularly(more than 1% of the time) is fortune in paigow. I'd say 99% of the time I'll play this if the minimum is $1. I will play at $5 if my regular bet is large enough. The idea is that I don't want 80% of my expected loss to come from teh side bet, but I'm ok with 25% of my expected loss.
BJ side bets I'll never do. I do play the fire bet in craps as well. Again $1 compared to $100+ I'll put at risk on that roll is rather insignificant.
I prefer side bets that win when I normally win at the game. I do lot like BJ bets where my 2 cards + dealer card add up to something. This means I could have a 13 and win my side bet and have an awful hand. I want one goal in a game, not 2 separate goals that are mainly independent.
I know it is terrible odds. I also know the amount of money I put on side bets is trivial compared to my normal bankroll on a Vegas trip. Easily under 1% of my expected losses come from side bets. I'm very confident I spend more on drink tips than side bets.
BJ side bets I'll never do. I do play the fire bet in craps as well. Again $1 compared to $100+ I'll put at risk on that roll is rather insignificant.
I prefer side bets that win when I normally win at the game. I do lot like BJ bets where my 2 cards + dealer card add up to something. This means I could have a 13 and win my side bet and have an awful hand. I want one goal in a game, not 2 separate goals that are mainly independent.
I know it is terrible odds. I also know the amount of money I put on side bets is trivial compared to my normal bankroll on a Vegas trip. Easily under 1% of my expected losses come from side bets. I'm very confident I spend more on drink tips than side bets.
May 1st, 2013 at 2:28:11 PM
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This may (and will) sound silly to a lot of people here, but the side bets are exciting and fun.
Considering the larger payouts possible, the extra percentage points in HE are overlooked for the windfall. The side bets can make some players' sessions.
Furthermore, many players would never forgive themselves if the "big one" hit - and they weren't on the bet.
I will say that a lot of side bets get a lot of action by players: The bonus bets and Insurance bet in Pai Gow Poker, Trips bet in Ultimate Texas Hold 'em, and especially the Pair Plus bet in Three Card Poker, among others.
Considering the larger payouts possible, the extra percentage points in HE are overlooked for the windfall. The side bets can make some players' sessions.
Furthermore, many players would never forgive themselves if the "big one" hit - and they weren't on the bet.
I will say that a lot of side bets get a lot of action by players: The bonus bets and Insurance bet in Pai Gow Poker, Trips bet in Ultimate Texas Hold 'em, and especially the Pair Plus bet in Three Card Poker, among others.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 1st, 2013 at 2:30:43 PM
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Because it's due. Always listen to your friendly dealer.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 1st, 2013 at 2:33:11 PM
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No.
Because it's fun, and its your option. No bet, be it the main wager or a side bet, is ever "due."
See This story about chasing after something "being due."
Because it's fun, and its your option. No bet, be it the main wager or a side bet, is ever "due."
See This story about chasing after something "being due."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 1st, 2013 at 2:54:44 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 1st, 2013 at 2:56:38 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesBecause "that's where the money is." (eyeroll)
Swear to god I was going to write that exact sentence and you beat me to it. Dang it.
May 1st, 2013 at 3:01:15 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesI think 1BB was being sarcastic.
And I stand 100% by my first reply. 100% of the people that I have seen play ANY side bet say the same thing, "its where the money is." Then I ask them why they haven't quit their day job.
I was but it's not my strong suit.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
May 1st, 2013 at 3:08:37 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 1st, 2013 at 3:19:29 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesI think 1BB was being sarcastic.
And I stand 100% by my first reply. 100% of the people that I have seen play ANY side bet say the same thing, "its where the money is." Then I ask them why they haven't quit their day job.
True, but I GOTTA tell you - that more often than not - there's truth in jest.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 1st, 2013 at 3:42:39 PM
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For many of us, gambling just isn't all that serious. I understand that for people HERE, it is... but for most people in a casino, it isn't. I take enough $$ that I can have some fun, and maybe win, but not so much that I'm devastated if I lose. I can afford to put my bets where I ENJOY them the most... because I am there for fun.
You want to know what line gets the most laughs at 3 Card poker, when the subject of the button bet at Mohegan (A-K-Q of Spades, 1 in 22100, payout starts at $1000 and 40% of every button dollar goes into the pool) comes up? It's when I say, "Yeah, but if we thought the odds were important we wouldn't be sitting here at a 3 Card Poker table." And everyone chuckles and says, "Yeah, you got that right!"
People like games, and they like to get their emotions tickled. People who play 3 Card, and Let it Ride, and Mississippi and UTH and 4 Card, almost every one of them has a story about an asshole blackjack player who made them swear to never play the game again. The vast majority of them are social people who simply like to play games for money, and accept the terms of the game.
And I'll add, who don't really care if they are judged for their decision that the thrill is worth more than the money (for that short period of time that they are in the casino). If I wanted to MAKE money, I'd have gone to work instead.
You want to know what line gets the most laughs at 3 Card poker, when the subject of the button bet at Mohegan (A-K-Q of Spades, 1 in 22100, payout starts at $1000 and 40% of every button dollar goes into the pool) comes up? It's when I say, "Yeah, but if we thought the odds were important we wouldn't be sitting here at a 3 Card Poker table." And everyone chuckles and says, "Yeah, you got that right!"
People like games, and they like to get their emotions tickled. People who play 3 Card, and Let it Ride, and Mississippi and UTH and 4 Card, almost every one of them has a story about an asshole blackjack player who made them swear to never play the game again. The vast majority of them are social people who simply like to play games for money, and accept the terms of the game.
And I'll add, who don't really care if they are judged for their decision that the thrill is worth more than the money (for that short period of time that they are in the casino). If I wanted to MAKE money, I'd have gone to work instead.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 1st, 2013 at 3:52:59 PM
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I've heard a few people say "That's where the money is," playing just the Pairs Plus at 3 Card, just the Aces Up bet at 4 Card, and talking about the Trips bet at UTH.
Most of them, I leave them alone. Especially at 3 Card. The reason they play that bet (Pairs Plus only, Aces Up only) is because they don't like to play against another hand; they see that as "losing a challenge". I did strike up a conversation with a player at 4 Card, and pointed out that a winning bet on a pair can save a non-Aces hand, and she took me up on it and kind of broke even for a while. But most of those players play that way so they don't have to show down against the dealer's hand.
Most of them, I leave them alone. Especially at 3 Card. The reason they play that bet (Pairs Plus only, Aces Up only) is because they don't like to play against another hand; they see that as "losing a challenge". I did strike up a conversation with a player at 4 Card, and pointed out that a winning bet on a pair can save a non-Aces hand, and she took me up on it and kind of broke even for a while. But most of those players play that way so they don't have to show down against the dealer's hand.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 1st, 2013 at 3:55:43 PM
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People think you are the weirdest thing ever if you don't play bonus bets/sucker bets. Well at least for me when I'm playing. The payouts are nice but the odds, man!
I had a dealer tell everyone at our UTH table that the 4x raise is where the money is, and it was refreshing to hear that instead of "play the trips bet!!!"
I had a dealer tell everyone at our UTH table that the 4x raise is where the money is, and it was refreshing to hear that instead of "play the trips bet!!!"
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
May 1st, 2013 at 4:07:29 PM
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Quote: MoscaFor many of us, gambling just isn't all that serious. I understand that for people HERE, it is... but for most people in a casino, it isn't. I take enough $$ that I can have some fun, and maybe win, but not so much that I'm devastated if I lose. I can afford to put my bets where I ENJOY them the most... because I am there for fun.
You want to know what line gets the most laughs at 3 Card poker, when the subject of the button bet at Mohegan (A-K-Q of Spades, 1 in 22100, payout starts at $1000 and 40% of every button dollar goes into the pool) comes up? It's when I say, "Yeah, but if we thought the odds were important we wouldn't be sitting here at a 3 Card Poker table." And everyone chuckles and says, "Yeah, you got that right!"
People like games, and they like to get their emotions tickled. People who play 3 Card, and Let it Ride, and Mississippi and UTH and 4 Card, almost every one of them has a story about an asshole blackjack player who made them swear to never play the game again. The vast majority of them are social people who simply like to play games for money, and accept the terms of the game.
And I'll add, who don't really care if they are judged for their decision that the thrill is worth more than the money (for that short period of time that they are in the casino). If I wanted to MAKE money, I'd have gone to work instead.
+1......and I realize that for an AP, going to the casino is their "work", but that just isn't the case for 99%+ of casino patrons.
May 1st, 2013 at 4:29:56 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 1st, 2013 at 4:47:55 PM
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I was playing PGP at Caesar's Palace last week and nobody was playing the Fortune. The pit supervisor stopped by the table and observed nobody was playing it. My wife said she never plays it and the boss said "yeah, it's a sucker bet." My wife expressed surprise he would say that and he said he will tell the truth if asked, he doesn't need to push those bets. Later I hit a straight flush (of course I was not playing the fortune but another guy got the envy on two spots.) I casually mentioned I could have hit $250 had I been playing the standard $5 fortune (at a $25 table.) The dealer actually said "yeah but do you think it would make up for all the times you would have lost." That is exactly how I would put it. I found it really refreshing not to be pressured to play the fortune like I am at many places.
I was impressed by the customer service. Of course if players are putting down big money on the fortune bet I am sure they won't discourage it (nor should they.) A well run casino will take the players money while letting them leave happy.
I was impressed by the customer service. Of course if players are putting down big money on the fortune bet I am sure they won't discourage it (nor should they.) A well run casino will take the players money while letting them leave happy.
May 1st, 2013 at 4:57:24 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesTrue and 99% of the 99% are there trying to win money on the side bets, fun or not.
All true as well....what is the percentage of side bet players that actually know the house edge on the side bet they are playing?
Is it over or under 10%......I think I have to go with the under :-)!
May 1st, 2013 at 5:00:29 PM
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Playing BJ this weekend with a three card poker side bet, I watched a woman set down beside me and dig through her purse till she found a $20. She laid $5 for her BJ bet and placed $10 on the side bet. She lost both. Laid her last $5 chip down and won. Then took the other $5 and placed the side bet and lost both. She dug around for another $20 did the same exact thing again. She then went to the ATM and drawed out a $100. Played $5 BJ with a $10 side bet untill it was all gone in a very short amount of time. She sure didn't look like she was playing for fun. She acted more like she was trying to win her mortgage.
May 1st, 2013 at 5:25:04 PM
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And this is one of my favorite things about Turning Stone Casino. No side-bets on blackjack. I pay at Mohegan Sun sometimes and it's not as much fun because every five or so hands someone is telling you that you should have bet Match the Dealer. I also get chastised for surrendering according to basic strategy there, not the friendliest patrons there to say the least.
May 1st, 2013 at 5:55:54 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 1st, 2013 at 6:23:43 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesI'll say 0.000..%
I have got to disagree. EVERYONE who walks into a casino knows and accepts that the house has an edge, and has to have an edge just to be there, [cough!]and is looking for his "luck" or his variance session.
I design games, and I work with gaming mathematicians, and you know, we sometimes gamble for gambling's sake. The math doesn't wreck it for you unless you let it wreck it for you.
I cannot play craps with just a line bet and max odds. I make place bets, hardways bets (usually to parlay), and while I darn well know the math, I do this to gamble, to have fun, and have a good session. I play the trips on UTH, play the pair plus on Three Card Poker, bet at least nickels on both the Fortune and insurance bets ( - - excuse me, Dynasty/Emperor's Treaure bet!), and bet the BJS/G3 progressive. And I know what the math is.
Looking at the percentages and the decimals points on a live table game is a little bit like going to a baseball game and thinking "why am I watching millionaires chase a little white ball on a lawn?" Can't think like that if you are there for the action. Not that THIS will any make sense to many here....
Shoot, sex can be boring if you think of it just in terms of "pistons and cylinders" - like an automotive engineer thinking of math during the act: "37.5 strokes per minute at an ambient temperature of 82.4 degree f, at 91% relative humidity - and rising of all things!...." This is a bit like saying, "Hmm...the house edge on this 'push my stool' Blackjack side bet is 9.28456353937540114%.......Heavens to Murgatroid, I now cannot play it!"
This is not the way to approach a game once the house edge and the tables are determined to be worth playing. Sometimes, people just play for the action itself. (I mean, if you were to put Kim Kardiashian's b*tt under an electron microscope, you then might find some off-putting mole or a wart, and THEN say, "Really, what a turn-off! I MUST go home!") You cannot approach 'action' in such a fashion, sometimes you have just got to let your 'red blood be red...' If you ARE going get a big win, it just won't be from a flat bet.
Likewise, we should focus on the action instead of the math at the tables if we are to really play, - unless, of course, it is a job. Even the late Roger Ebert allowed himself to enjoy some movies, even if the script was non-sensical if analyzed to the Nth degree.
There is something to be said for the suspension of disbelief. Ifyou can ignore or accept the house edge to the point of acceptance, - and then just bet it and play.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 1st, 2013 at 7:06:04 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 1st, 2013 at 7:16:04 PM
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I don't make sidebets because 50:1 on a $5 bet isn't that big a deal for me -- if I want to win $250, I'll bet $250.
For that reason, I DO make progressive bets on games I like, especially Ultimate Texas Hold'em. Because I don't have the means to win tens of thousands of dollars. Or, as one dealer in Kennewick excellently called it, that $1 is the "Suicide Prevention wager".
One thing that threads like this seem to bring out -- and I haven't read it through to put names for or against this position -- is the notion that "intelligent people can't possibly enjoy negative expectation gambling".
I defend my -EV gambling the same way I defend my love of professional wrestling. Willing suspension of disbelief, knowing full well the 'reality' but wanting to lose myself in the moment and 'mark out'. I shut my eyes, feel only the feelings. I use superstition for fun. I will never get bent out of shape from a superstition any more than I will get bent out of shape if my favorite pro wrestler loses. On the other hand, even Dan can testify how all of Henderson knows full well that Mr. Canada calls "no action when Alanis is playing!" on his craps odds.
And yes, compare the -EV I spend to being able to have stories like:
Me: "No action when Alanis is playing!"
Dealer: "You know, it might be Evanescence, right?"
Me: "Sorry, that's a chance I just can't take".
... and I'll never lose an hour of sleep over it.
For that reason, I DO make progressive bets on games I like, especially Ultimate Texas Hold'em. Because I don't have the means to win tens of thousands of dollars. Or, as one dealer in Kennewick excellently called it, that $1 is the "Suicide Prevention wager".
One thing that threads like this seem to bring out -- and I haven't read it through to put names for or against this position -- is the notion that "intelligent people can't possibly enjoy negative expectation gambling".
I defend my -EV gambling the same way I defend my love of professional wrestling. Willing suspension of disbelief, knowing full well the 'reality' but wanting to lose myself in the moment and 'mark out'. I shut my eyes, feel only the feelings. I use superstition for fun. I will never get bent out of shape from a superstition any more than I will get bent out of shape if my favorite pro wrestler loses. On the other hand, even Dan can testify how all of Henderson knows full well that Mr. Canada calls "no action when Alanis is playing!" on his craps odds.
And yes, compare the -EV I spend to being able to have stories like:
Me: "No action when Alanis is playing!"
Dealer: "You know, it might be Evanescence, right?"
Me: "Sorry, that's a chance I just can't take".
... and I'll never lose an hour of sleep over it.
May 1st, 2013 at 7:32:22 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesAgree 100%. The question was what percentage of players actually know exactly what the HE is on the side bet they are playing. And I say 0%.
okay, okay, true point.
Most people do NOT know exactly - and quite often, it can make a difference. But just about all current games adhere strictly to a "near 50/50" - honestly - just out of "people WILL feel it, and know when they are getting burned" sense of a game, if not even checking with the excellent Wizardofodds site.
In the same breath, over-examining a great-feeling table game with a low house edge and smooth house mechanism (like the superb UTH, absolutely), with a "poor-feeling" game (like Deuces Wild, the game table version, and with no offense to my boss), makes the most difference in a player's table game experience and session, - and this CAN include some well-designed and fun side bets.
Most table-game players do indeed know that good table games are in the low single digits on the flat bets, and can pretty much tell by player experience alone, and the higher edge on the bigger payoff side bets if they too are rewarding in pay scale, and remain in the single digits in house edge.
And to be honest and frank, table game designers and distributors do try to hide the house edge mechanisms, in the sense of "how they play and feel and reward the gambler," as that is what the operators seek and know they must have, as well as we do. When we see table holds approach 40%, we know things are very out-of-whack, and the people cannot be enjoying themselves as they are supposed to. People hit the casino tables just as they do any other form of mature entertainment, and I mean that in a extremely polite way - that is, to look for, and to get a bit of juice out of their fun time "in the joint," - and that would never happen if anyone on either side of the tables were truly usurious. I know this falls on deaf ears here, but this isn't a lie.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 1st, 2013 at 7:41:44 PM
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I'll add that I understand NOT playing the side bets, too... Because my point is that every player should put the bet where it pleases him or her the most. If its roulette, or keno, or a horse race or a slot machine or a +EV shoe of blackjack, or a lottery ticket, or no bet at all.
The goal is to have fun. And we all decide what fun is for ourselves. The world is not balanced when we all make the best bets... The world is balanced when we all believe we had the most enjoyment from placing those bets, that we got our money's worth. And THAT evaluation is internal to us all.
The goal is to have fun. And we all decide what fun is for ourselves. The world is not balanced when we all make the best bets... The world is balanced when we all believe we had the most enjoyment from placing those bets, that we got our money's worth. And THAT evaluation is internal to us all.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 1st, 2013 at 7:50:01 PM
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My experience at 3 Card Poker tables is that very few know the odds for the ante/play and pairs plus bets, let alone the button bet. I've never met anyone else who knew that there were only 22000 or so possible hands. But almost all of them know "Q-6-4 or better". The ones who bet PP only, do so because they don't like showdowns.
Craps players know the odds. BJ players generally play well, with exceptions. Pai Gow players all play well.
Craps players know the odds. BJ players generally play well, with exceptions. Pai Gow players all play well.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 1st, 2013 at 7:54:40 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesAgree 100%. The question was what percentage of players actually know exactly what the HE is on the side bet they are playing. And I say 0%.
I would know the edge, but you're definitely correct to the nearest percentage point. :) Also, I would also avoid playing the bet at the table unless it's a rare moment where the edge of the side bet outweighs or at least closely matches the main game. A good example was the 1-4-6-30-40 Pairplus, RIP. :(
May 1st, 2013 at 8:10:56 PM
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Quote: Mosca...The goal is to have fun. And we all decide what fun is for ourselves.
Truly.
If there is a TI scientific calculator in my coffin at my wake, then just shoot me... :) If I am smiling, with a pair of dice in my hands, then all is good. I had my action, warts and all.
..in fact, if I actually need that at a casino table while alive and playing, - then also shoot me...- games have to be reasonably fair going in, and I say that they are. I honestly try to see to that it is, believe me or not here at this place.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 1st, 2013 at 8:41:54 PM
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Quote: tringlomaneA good example was the 1-4-6-30-40 Pairplus, RIP. :(
1-4-6-30-40 is alive and well at the Akwesasne casino in upstate NY. I think it might still be offered at Turning Stone too.
May 1st, 2013 at 8:55:03 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 1st, 2013 at 8:55:06 PM
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I used to never play side bets at all, but then I came to the realization that no matter what game I play in the casino, even if I play perfect strategy with the least possible house edge, I am going to lose. I don't count cards and I am not that lucky. Therefore, I play to win as much money as possible in the short time that I am there. When I go to the casino, which is frequently, I am rarely there longer than an hour. I know that in that short time anything could possibly happen, back to back suited pairs (pair square side bet) on a double deck shoe game, hitting five blackjacks in six hands, hitting a penny progressive slot machine for a little over $4000 (Deal or No Deal Progressive on the first version they came out with back sometime in 2007 I believe), being dealt four of kind on UTH with the bonus trips bet, or hitting the House Money AK suited blackjack, which turned my $10 bet into a $60 blackjack. NEVER HITTING A QUARTER ROYAL OR HIGHER. (I know we had a whole section on that!). If I walk in willing to lose $100, I don't care if it takes me 2 minutes to lose it or an hour, unless I double or triple up I am usually not leaving the table till its gone. Playing the side bets give you the chance at some pretty decent payouts. I know I lose overall, but I love the pair square side bet as those 25/1 and 10/1 payouts come up fairly frequently or at least enough to keep me interested. I live in Vegas the casinos will be there tomorrow and if I keep going back I am still going to lose. There is no way to beat the casinos playing negative expectation games.
May 1st, 2013 at 11:58:33 PM
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Sure, side bets are fun, but side bets are for suckers, pure and simple. You are better off taking the money that you would be making on a side bet and playing a low HE game like craps. The pass line only has a 1.4 HE, and if you get lucky, you might run into a controlled shooter/dice influencer who can do some real damage to the table. Talk about hitting a big payday and having fun...that's it!
May 2nd, 2013 at 12:04:21 AM
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Quote: klimate10Sure, side bets are fun, but side bets are for suckers, pure and simple. You are better off taking the money that you would be making on a side bet and playing a low HE game like craps. The pass line only has a 1.4 HE, and if you get lucky, you might run into a controlled shooter/dice influencer who can do some real damage to the table. Talk about hitting a big payday and having fun...that's it!
I should add that if you want the BEST CHANCE to win from a controlled shooter and you two are the only ones at the table, ALWAYS PASS THE DICE back to the good shooter instead of wasting the good shooter's time painfully watching you lose or worse yet betting on you when they know better because they are impatient!!! If someone wants to shoot while I am shooting, I will pass the dice back to them continuously until they lose and leave. It usually doesn't take long.
If you make the same bets (scale them down if you need to) as the shooter who is delivering what you think are clean looking shots, it might also help if you don't know the game and how to bet. Don't make random bets on a craps table or bets that a dealer tells you to make. There are plenty of horrible bets on the crap felt too if you're that type of gambler! Stick with pass line, come bets, and odds bets and on the same side as whoever seems like they know what they're doing with the dice.
Don't bet on any shooters making one-roll bets. Period.
aahigh.com
May 2nd, 2013 at 12:20:33 AM
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Quote: JB1-4-6-30-40 is alive and well at the Akwesasne casino in upstate NY. I think it might still be offered at Turning Stone too.
And at Harrington DE.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
May 2nd, 2013 at 5:58:56 AM
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Hi guys! Haha
May 2nd, 2013 at 6:14:59 AM
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What I would REALLY want would be a dice controller who could shoot me up a hard 8 on demand. That would cover both topics handily, I think. Just roll out that fire bet!
A falling knife has no handle.
May 2nd, 2013 at 6:15:09 AM
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Low edge + parlay is better than side bet.
But keeping making those side bets. Somebody needs to pay the electric bill and keep me from having to pay state taxes.
But keeping making those side bets. Somebody needs to pay the electric bill and keep me from having to pay state taxes.
aahigh.com
May 2nd, 2013 at 6:20:28 AM
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Quote: MoscaWhat I would REALLY want would be a dice controller who could shoot me up a hard 8 on demand. That would cover both topics handily, I think. Just roll out that fire bet!
I can do any specific outcome on demand a little more often than 1 out of 30 on average. SOOPOO has a lot of challenges where he lets others make sucker bets.
I would like to see SOOPOO make this bet: hop the hard 8 on every roll and I will bet you can't lose $100 making a $1 hard eight hopping every single roll while I roll the dice for as long as we are at the table. If you lose the $100, I give it back to you, plus $100 more for your "win." If you get tired first, you give me $200. No breaks of any kind (restroom or otherwise). There's very little chance he would outlast me on this challenge. Unfortunately, it can't be at his favorite place, The Rio, because they only pay $30 for 1. In fact, if I were like SOOPOO I would demand we do this at Texas Station.
Of course he won't take the bet because he's not a sucker, just like I won't take his bets. But the fact that nobody takes his sucker bets doesn't stop him from continuing to make them to try to make a point. So that's my point: you will have a damn hard time losing all $100. But as evidenced from the Ahigh show when I failed to roll a hard ten for 100 throws, it could happen pretty quick!
I can just picture SOOPOO throwing in a dollar to the stick man every roll and having him tap the hard-8 hopping. "hard-8 hopping back. <tick-tick>." The main thing I would get out of such a bet is putting SOOPOO in the position of being forced to make the stupidest sucker bet on the felt every single roll. I wouldn't even mind losing to watch him make a bet that the casino was sure he could not ever win on.
aahigh.com
May 2nd, 2013 at 6:44:51 AM
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Ahigh, I was kidding. I don't believe that shooters can control dice. I'm perfectly happy gambling for fun. As long as we're both happy, all is well.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 2nd, 2013 at 6:53:39 AM
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What even more fun is if a dice controller can make the fire bets. Then I'd understand why people make side bets! Yeah!
May 2nd, 2013 at 6:57:26 AM
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Quote: 1arrowheaddrWhy do people make side bets on table games? Do gamblers want more action, don't want to be the idiot if the jackpot hits, or some other reason. I would really like to hear from people who make side bets. Although, I am interested in the opinion of all.
Not sure if it was mentioned, but some side bets actually have a lower house-edge than the main game itself- and for certain progressive side bets- you're in +EV territory so of course I play them.
For those of us that only periodically gamble who play -EV games in the first place, many times they just add fun to the game- or at least reduce the drama of not playing and actually winning the side bet, which detracts from the enjoyment of the game.
I think as a another poster pointed out, the side bet also needs to at least have the potential to win a decent amount of money relative to what you play at, or what's the point.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
May 2nd, 2013 at 7:54:52 AM
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Quote: JB1-4-6-30-40 is alive and well at the Akwesasne casino in upstate NY. I think it might still be offered at Turning Stone too.
On this, there is a bit of a renaissance of < 5% side bets with wide payouts. UTH trips is another example.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 2nd, 2013 at 8:20:36 AM
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Quote: tringlomaneA good example was the 1-4-6-30-40 Pairplus, RIP. :(
Borgata offers that bet as a side bet to Let It Ride... they actually offer 50-40-30-6-4-1, 50 for the mini royal. Best Pairs Plus pay table ever. And their 3 Card is 100-50-30-6-3-1, 100 for the mini royal, 50 for the straight flush.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 2nd, 2013 at 8:42:01 AM
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Here's another way to look at it.
I think most reasonably intelligent people who gamble do not "expect" to win. Therefore, they're not too concerned with the house edge.
On the flip side, they know Lady Luck is lurking, and are hoping she smiles upon them. If not, why bother to gamble at all?
Side bets are just another way to get lucky. If they pay often enough, they can be as compelling and entertaining as the base game.
I think most reasonably intelligent people who gamble do not "expect" to win. Therefore, they're not too concerned with the house edge.
On the flip side, they know Lady Luck is lurking, and are hoping she smiles upon them. If not, why bother to gamble at all?
Side bets are just another way to get lucky. If they pay often enough, they can be as compelling and entertaining as the base game.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 2nd, 2013 at 8:47:29 AM
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Side bets to me are boring, because you aren't involved once you place the bet. I like to be involved in the game by raising, folding, hitting, doubling down, throwing the dice etc.
