Tipping at the Craps Table
March 9th, 2010 at 5:15:57 AM
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How do you tip at the Craps table?
I'm interested to hear when and how you toke the dealers. On color up? Make bets "for the boys"? Do you ever give the dealers "shoes"?
What part/percent of your bankroll usually ends up as tips? Does it depend on if you win? How long you stay at the table? Camaraderie with the dealers?
I'm interested to hear when and how you toke the dealers. On color up? Make bets "for the boys"? Do you ever give the dealers "shoes"?
What part/percent of your bankroll usually ends up as tips? Does it depend on if you win? How long you stay at the table? Camaraderie with the dealers?
-Dween!
March 9th, 2010 at 5:52:11 AM
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I only tip when I shoot, and not every time. It really depends on if I am up or down.
I start with a $1 PL bet when I shoot, and I will put full odds on that bet. Hopefully that works for a couple of points (trying to get the mojo karma thing working). If I'm up a couple of hundred, then I will go to $5 PL and $10 odds.
If I am losing the PL bets to the house, then I will switch and throw $6 or $12 each on the 6/8, player control. The bet stays and the dealers take the winnings. I will ask the dealer if they want to press. I take it perhaps they are not supposed to say what they want done with the bet, as when I do get a response, it is usually pretty much said under their breath.
If I am losing the 6/8 bet as well, then I usually stop tipping. If they aren't winning, neither am I at this point.
There is one last situation I will tip. If someone just went on a monster roll, and I just pulled in 3G's, I will tip when I color up. The tip is sort of dependent on what my odd amount is. If I color up and it is 3,100, I'm not breaking a banana, so they get 100. If the win was 3,400, and I am up that amount for the trip, I may drop 300, if I had not been making other bets for them. If many of the other bets were getting paid for them, then I will drop only odd chips, and perhaps a 100.
I start with a $1 PL bet when I shoot, and I will put full odds on that bet. Hopefully that works for a couple of points (trying to get the mojo karma thing working). If I'm up a couple of hundred, then I will go to $5 PL and $10 odds.
If I am losing the PL bets to the house, then I will switch and throw $6 or $12 each on the 6/8, player control. The bet stays and the dealers take the winnings. I will ask the dealer if they want to press. I take it perhaps they are not supposed to say what they want done with the bet, as when I do get a response, it is usually pretty much said under their breath.
If I am losing the 6/8 bet as well, then I usually stop tipping. If they aren't winning, neither am I at this point.
There is one last situation I will tip. If someone just went on a monster roll, and I just pulled in 3G's, I will tip when I color up. The tip is sort of dependent on what my odd amount is. If I color up and it is 3,100, I'm not breaking a banana, so they get 100. If the win was 3,400, and I am up that amount for the trip, I may drop 300, if I had not been making other bets for them. If many of the other bets were getting paid for them, then I will drop only odd chips, and perhaps a 100.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 9th, 2010 at 6:04:24 AM
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I don't know percentage-wise, but if any shooter hits a couple of points, I throw a nickel on the pass line next to my bet. I will usually put another 5 for odds. Since I bet the Come continuously, I will also throw 5 on the point for the dealers if I've made a few come rolls and I'm getting paid nicely every roll. If I win at least 500, I usually give whatever "change" I get when coloring up and leaving (between 15-49 bucks). If I get cleaned out quickly, that's the only time that I wouldn't tip, just because I don't like digging back into my wallet to throw down cash as a tip after a big loss. I figure I make up for it the other times. Plus many of the dealers know me, and they know that I'm pretty generous overall.
March 9th, 2010 at 6:07:14 AM
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Quote: RaleighCraps
If I am losing the PL bets to the house, then I will switch and throw $6 or $12 each on the 6/8, player control. The bet stays and the dealers take the winnings. I will ask the dealer if they want to press. I take it perhaps they are not supposed to say what they want done with the bet, as when I do get a response, it is usually pretty much said under their breath.
Many places have policies regarding this. It may actually be the decision of the shift that's on. Sometimes they say, "We have to take it down." I don't think they are allowed to press anywhere I've played in AC...at best they can leave the original bet, but it seems rarer. Probably because they figure if they take it down, you are likely to put it back up for them. At worst (if they take it down and you don't put it back), it makes a 1-10% House advantage to a 0% HA. Sometimes if you throw down a red chip and say, "Wherever you want it to go..." the stick will be allowed to make a decision. Some places have to drop it into their box.
March 9th, 2010 at 6:26:07 AM
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As with everything else, a lot of it 'depends'.
I ALWAYS tip when I color up. How much depends upon how well I did, and how the dealers acted.
When I'm shooting, I occasionally bet the hard-ways, and I make it a two-way bet.
I don't make other dealer bets. One time, the guy next to me threw in $5 and said "Dealer place, except the point". After the dealer spread the bet, I caught the dealer's eye, then gave the player a quizical look, and then threw in $1. The dealer smiled and, without me saying a word, knew to put it on the point as a dealer bet. It hit on the next roll. After paying everyone, he took the dealer's payout and used to to rap the table right in front of me and while glancing at the other player, said "Thanks." All three of us had a good chuckle. And the OTHER player threw in the buck to put the bet back up.
I ALWAYS tip when I color up. How much depends upon how well I did, and how the dealers acted.
When I'm shooting, I occasionally bet the hard-ways, and I make it a two-way bet.
I don't make other dealer bets. One time, the guy next to me threw in $5 and said "Dealer place, except the point". After the dealer spread the bet, I caught the dealer's eye, then gave the player a quizical look, and then threw in $1. The dealer smiled and, without me saying a word, knew to put it on the point as a dealer bet. It hit on the next roll. After paying everyone, he took the dealer's payout and used to to rap the table right in front of me and while glancing at the other player, said "Thanks." All three of us had a good chuckle. And the OTHER player threw in the buck to put the bet back up.
I've never heard that phrase. What is it?Quote: DweenDo you ever give the dealers "shoes"?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 9th, 2010 at 6:32:01 AM
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If I'm in Vegas or Reno and it's my first session at the hotel where I am staying, I will make a line bet for the dealers at the start. This lets them know that I am a tipper and usually they will ask my name and strike up a little conversation, and they remember me when I come back. The same goes when I start play with a different crew. At casinos near me, where they know me, I usually reserve my tipping until the end. Other than that it is pretty much at random -- maybe a line bet, sometimes with odds, or if I have accumulated a few white chips I'll throw out $8 for a two-way all the hardways. If things are going really well I might piggyback a place bet. On longer sessions, which ususally means I'm winning, I might simply hand in a tip which ensures it ends up un the tip box and not in the casino's vault. I also hand in a tip when a dealer reminds me that I forgot something, like to add odds or replace a hard ways and it wins. Regardless of what I tipped during the session, I almost always tip at the end, win or lose. I don't tip when I lose and the crew is generally inattentive or rude. How much? A few bucks to probably around 5% of my winnings, more if they provided good service.
I don't make the high payout prop bets for the dealers, but it sure is fun when someone does and they hit. I've seen the crew take in hundreds in tips that way.
Sometimes people walk away and forget they had a bet still out - like a come bet which wins on a seven out or a hardway that hits. It always seems to be a problem for the crew when that happens -- they set the money aside, and sometimes try to track the person down. Does that money go to the dealers? I suppose he could come back to the table and ask what happened to his bet, so, how long to they have to wait before dropping it in the tip box?
I don't make the high payout prop bets for the dealers, but it sure is fun when someone does and they hit. I've seen the crew take in hundreds in tips that way.
Sometimes people walk away and forget they had a bet still out - like a come bet which wins on a seven out or a hardway that hits. It always seems to be a problem for the crew when that happens -- they set the money aside, and sometimes try to track the person down. Does that money go to the dealers? I suppose he could come back to the table and ask what happened to his bet, so, how long to they have to wait before dropping it in the tip box?
March 9th, 2010 at 6:36:06 AM
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"Shoes" means you put a pass line bet for the dealer, and you've backed it up with some free odds. "Shoes" are the odds.
March 9th, 2010 at 6:37:59 AM
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I think that if you allow them to make the decision (to press a bet), then they are making bets for themselves at the table, which is obviously not allowed; it's money they've already won, not money you put out for them.
A falling knife has no handle.
March 9th, 2010 at 6:51:32 AM
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Because the player may come back a considerable time later, the only thing to do is to either lock it up (i.e. put it in a baggie with notes) or just make a note of it, and put the checques in the rack. To put it in the tip box creates problems if the player returns to claim it.Quote: seattlediceSometimes people walk away and forget they had a bet still out - like a come bet which wins on a seven out or a hardway that hits. It always seems to be a problem for the crew when that happens -- they set the money aside, and sometimes try to track the person down. Does that money go to the dealers? I suppose he could come back to the table and ask what happened to his bet, so, how long to they have to wait before dropping it in the tip box?
But then how long do they wait? And what do they do to attempt to return it? Based upon video and the rating card info, it shouldn't be too much trouble to figure out who the player was and then contact him....
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 9th, 2010 at 6:56:25 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI've never heard that phrase. What is it?Quote: DweenDo you ever give the dealers "shoes"?
As in "Baby needs a new pair of shoes"? I thought that was just an expression used anytime, hoping to get a winning throw.Quote: cclub79"Shoes" means you put a pass line bet for the dealer, and you've backed it up with some free odds. "Shoes" are the odds.
So, technically, that line only applies if there is a dealer PL bet with Odds?
Ya learn something new every day....
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 9th, 2010 at 7:13:17 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearQuote: DJTeddyBearI've never heard that phrase. What is it?Quote: DweenDo you ever give the dealers "shoes"?
As in "Baby needs a new pair of shoes"? I thought that was just an expression used anytime, hoping to get a winning throw.Quote: cclub79"Shoes" means you put a pass line bet for the dealer, and you've backed it up with some free odds. "Shoes" are the odds.
So, technically, that line only applies if there is a dealer PL bet with Odds?
Ya learn something new every day....
I don't know how the dealer odds became shoes, but I don't think it's specifically related to the classic line. I don't think the original saying only applies to the toke. I just remember a long time ago, when I first put odds for the dealer, the stickman said "cmon shooter, we got shooooooooooooooes!" I didn't ask at the time, but I soon realized it was their terms for dealer odds.
March 9th, 2010 at 7:14:16 AM
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Quote: DweenHow do you tip at the Craps table?
I'm interested to hear when and how you toke the dealers. On color up? Make bets "for the boys"? Do you ever give the dealers "shoes"?
What part/percent of your bankroll usually ends up as tips? Does it depend on if you win? How long you stay at the table? Camaraderie with the dealers?
I always tip (if I remember to.. haha). Sure, a lot of factors go into it including my duration at the table, camaraderie, and winnings.
I usually make the 2-way Yo bet or toss a buck or two on one of the hardways for the dealers throughout the game.
When I finish my session, I usually tip whatever I feel is right... sometimes I just leave a green and all the red and white chips behind for the dealers after coloring up.
Sometimes I tip outright during the game, but just about every time I do that, the dealer will toss my tip on a bet of some sort anyway.
March 9th, 2010 at 8:14:29 AM
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Just a little anecdote:
In January, my wife and I were in Vegas along with a young lady who is a friend of ours. I was trying to teach craps to our friend, though I never got her to actually play. First evening in town, we were checking out the Aria -- my first time in the new place -- and I was playing at a $10 craps table.
I cannot remember what I had done in the way of tokes along the way. For some reason (I think maybe my wife had been waiting for us long enough that I figured she was bored), I decided to color up and leave right after a shooter made his point. I was two steps away when the base dealer called me back and said I had left a $12 place bet on the 8 that none of us had noticed. He passed the chips to me; I tossed the white ones in as a two-way yo and handed in the red ones. Everyone seemed comfortable with that: the dealers got a toke, I felt that I had already given up the $12 through stupidity, and my young friend thought both the call-back and the gesture were cool all the way around.
In January, my wife and I were in Vegas along with a young lady who is a friend of ours. I was trying to teach craps to our friend, though I never got her to actually play. First evening in town, we were checking out the Aria -- my first time in the new place -- and I was playing at a $10 craps table.
I cannot remember what I had done in the way of tokes along the way. For some reason (I think maybe my wife had been waiting for us long enough that I figured she was bored), I decided to color up and leave right after a shooter made his point. I was two steps away when the base dealer called me back and said I had left a $12 place bet on the 8 that none of us had noticed. He passed the chips to me; I tossed the white ones in as a two-way yo and handed in the red ones. Everyone seemed comfortable with that: the dealers got a toke, I felt that I had already given up the $12 through stupidity, and my young friend thought both the call-back and the gesture were cool all the way around.
March 9th, 2010 at 8:25:34 AM
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Quote: seattledice
Sometimes people walk away and forget they had a bet still out - like a come bet which wins on a seven out or a hardway that hits. It always seems to be a problem for the crew when that happens -- they set the money aside, and sometimes try to track the person down. Does that money go to the dealers? I suppose he could come back to the table and ask what happened to his bet, so, how long to they have to wait before dropping it in the tip box?
I am certain that money goes to the house. I was also told that most casinos also have a rule that chips laying on the floor belong to the house. Obviously, if you just dropped a chip, you are entitled to it, but if you are just walking along and see a green chip laying on the carpet, you are not supposed to keep it. Like that is going to happen.......
I have witnessed a cocktail waitress stealthly point out a black chip laying on the floor to a player, and the chump didn't even offer her a tip. I assume she would lose her job if she was to pick up the chip.
Weirdest thing I saw was in Paris. A guy I played a lot of hours with had over 2k in his rack, and he left for what was assumed to be a bio break. 2 hours later, and he had not come back yet. By now they had pulled the chips from the rack, but there was a lot of chatter between the box and the pit about how to handle this. The guy showed up 3 hours later, and they gave him the chips back.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 9th, 2010 at 8:31:27 AM
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Quote: MoscaI think that if you allow them to make the decision (to press a bet), then they are making bets for themselves at the table, which is obviously not allowed; it's money they've already won, not money you put out for them.
Thanks Mosca, I never considered that angle. Lately I have just announced the bet, and then tell the dealer they are playing take one, press one with their bet.
Unfortunately, that means I have discussed future winnings, which of course is BAAAAAAD form, and angers the dice genie, thus precipitating a string of point, seven outs like no one has ever seen.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 9th, 2010 at 9:26:34 AM
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I generally make a few two-way hardway bets early on, just to let the dealers know I am a tipper. I have noticed very little tipping out at Cache Creek, so they really appreciate it. Another thing I have occasionally done is to set a dollar of my odds bet behind a 4 or 10 aside. If it wins, the dealers get it and the $2 payoff attached to it. When I leave, I hand in any singles I have left.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Cheers,
Alan Shank
"How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
March 9th, 2010 at 11:34:30 AM
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Thanks all for the comments and anecdotes so far.
I tend to place $1 next to my $5 PL bet a few times, and the white goes closer to the stickman than the red. I was told that they like to pay the player off first, and each side of the table starts with the hook and works around to the stick. If I am having a good run, I will put odds on the dealer bet ("shoes"). If I forget to put a dealer bet, I might piggyback $1 on a 4/10 point odds. At the end, I will usually toss any leftover whites to the boys.
My wife and I went to the Hard Rock casino in Biloxi as a side trip, our first time there. I made it a point to put some whites on the line for the dealers, putting dealer odds down, etc. I did very well, starting with ~$150 and making a profit of ~$300. As I was leaving, the pit boss asked what was next on the agenda, and I mentioned my wife and I were going to the buffet. She comped that right then and there. I didn't see many other people doing any tokes or dealer bets at the table. Tipping can attract positive attention.
Since I introduced the term "shoes" in this thread, I wanted to also bring up another tip-related term I've seen rarely used at the Craps table: "Three-way" bets.
Once my friend was on a hot streak, and someone at the opposite end of the table threw in $3 and said, "Three-way Yo." I asked the dealer what it meant. It was a $1 bet for the bettor, $1 for the dealers, and $1 for the shooter. Unfortunately, it didn't hit.
This is not to be confused with a "Three-way Craps," which allows a person to bet a unit each on the 2, 3 and 12 (paying 30-1, 15-1, and 30-1 respectively at most tables), as opposed to "Any Craps", which allows a single unit bet on any of the 2, 3 or 12 coming up (paying 7-1 at most tables).
I tend to place $1 next to my $5 PL bet a few times, and the white goes closer to the stickman than the red. I was told that they like to pay the player off first, and each side of the table starts with the hook and works around to the stick. If I am having a good run, I will put odds on the dealer bet ("shoes"). If I forget to put a dealer bet, I might piggyback $1 on a 4/10 point odds. At the end, I will usually toss any leftover whites to the boys.
My wife and I went to the Hard Rock casino in Biloxi as a side trip, our first time there. I made it a point to put some whites on the line for the dealers, putting dealer odds down, etc. I did very well, starting with ~$150 and making a profit of ~$300. As I was leaving, the pit boss asked what was next on the agenda, and I mentioned my wife and I were going to the buffet. She comped that right then and there. I didn't see many other people doing any tokes or dealer bets at the table. Tipping can attract positive attention.
Since I introduced the term "shoes" in this thread, I wanted to also bring up another tip-related term I've seen rarely used at the Craps table: "Three-way" bets.
Once my friend was on a hot streak, and someone at the opposite end of the table threw in $3 and said, "Three-way Yo." I asked the dealer what it meant. It was a $1 bet for the bettor, $1 for the dealers, and $1 for the shooter. Unfortunately, it didn't hit.
This is not to be confused with a "Three-way Craps," which allows a person to bet a unit each on the 2, 3 and 12 (paying 30-1, 15-1, and 30-1 respectively at most tables), as opposed to "Any Craps", which allows a single unit bet on any of the 2, 3 or 12 coming up (paying 7-1 at most tables).
-Dween!
March 11th, 2010 at 7:53:14 PM
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After I hit a few numbers, I usually start playing the hardways. When I do, I make it a 2-way hard way... and if the table gets hot I keep pressing them everytime I press mine.
March 11th, 2010 at 7:59:18 PM
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I think dealers like the hardways bets more than the passline as they have the opportunity to win alot more when it hits. I usually will make the bet for the dealers (2-way) while I am shooting.
Some people will give the dealers chips at the end and have them bet it whatever way they want.
Some people will give the dealers chips at the end and have them bet it whatever way they want.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
March 11th, 2010 at 9:17:11 PM
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ive delt the game for 9 years now and my favorite tip is "dealer controlled" inside bets, even if its just $1 each. It gives the dealer a chance to have some fun. If the casino your playing at doesnt offer that, you can try "player controlled" inside, and just jack em up with a decent amount of aggression. I once dropped over $700 from an orginal $22 inside wager. good times.
March 12th, 2010 at 6:14:14 AM
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I think the most important think is to tip promptly...that way the floorperson who will be rating you tends to notice you a bit more than he might otherwise do and also that the dealers will surely wake up and pay attention to you. Even if it is a low tip, it shows you have potential. And if a relief dealer taps in at your end of the table if you started out tipping the crew, the relief dealer is likely to be told "number 3 is our friend" so the relief dealer will know that player number three tips and deserves a little extra attention. Its nice to tip as you leave but I think the benefit of the tip will be gained if you tip earlier.
Yes, shoes relates to backing up a Dealer's Line Bet with Odds that are for the dealers also. I think it is in poor taste to make a line bet and not back it up with odds but it happens frequently and some really cheap souls try to make a line bet for the dealers but back up that bet with odds for themselves. I heard the term shoes used when an ecstatic stickman noticed my odds bet and called out Dealers Have Shoes.
Yes, shoes relates to backing up a Dealer's Line Bet with Odds that are for the dealers also. I think it is in poor taste to make a line bet and not back it up with odds but it happens frequently and some really cheap souls try to make a line bet for the dealers but back up that bet with odds for themselves. I heard the term shoes used when an ecstatic stickman noticed my odds bet and called out Dealers Have Shoes.
March 12th, 2010 at 4:22:32 PM
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Quote: goatcabinI generally make a few two-way hardway bets early on, just to let the dealers know I am a tipper. I have noticed very little tipping out at Cache Creek, so they really appreciate it. Another thing I have occasionally done is to set a dollar of my odds bet behind a 4 or 10 aside. If it wins, the dealers get it and the $2 payoff attached to it. When I leave, I hand in any singles I have left.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
How do you do this ? I often place less then the maximum odds and would like to be able add a buck or two of odds for the dealer. (if the point is 4,5,9,10. If the point is 6/8, I might want to do something else)
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
March 12th, 2010 at 4:35:35 PM
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Are you allowed to go over 3/4/5 if it's a tip?
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
March 12th, 2010 at 5:15:52 PM
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Quote: ahiromuAre you allowed to go over 3/4/5 if it's a tip?
No
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 13th, 2010 at 11:23:53 AM
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I agree with Fleastiff, an early tip gets the dealers' attention. It has made a difference as to how my action is tracked by the boxman and the dealers. The rest when I color up, or if I'm tapped out, they get the last red as a gesture to the gods of luck.
"Win with a smile, lose with grace."
March 13th, 2010 at 4:37:50 PM
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Just put the odds down as two stacks next to each other, and mention that the shorter stack is "for the boys".Quote: DrEntropyHow do you do this ? I often place less then the maximum odds and would like to be able add a buck or two of odds for the dealer.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 13th, 2010 at 6:37:16 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearJust put the odds down as two stacks next to each other, and mention that the shorter stack is "for the boys".Quote: DrEntropyHow do you do this ? I often place less then the maximum odds and would like to be able add a buck or two of odds for the dealer.
Or I just put the tip slightly off-center on the odds. If they ask, I tell them it's theirs. If they don't, I just give it to them after they pay me.
March 14th, 2010 at 6:34:37 AM
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When I'm placing a bet for the three guys/gals or whatever combo is there, they always seem to tell me where they want their bet placed, which is usually the passline. Theoretically if I'm up half of my initial bankroll ($100 is my limit) I'll bet $15 bucks, split three ways of course, and at first I placed $15 in the field, but now I place $5 on the passline and $10 on the odds. I guess they think I'm hosing them if I play the field. I can see them wanting to play the passline odds if the point is 6 or 8 of course. A couple times I've placed a bet in the field and one of the guys will move it to the passline without asking me. I'm not sure if this is a faux pas on their part or what.
March 14th, 2010 at 10:06:02 AM
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Quote: derik999When I'm placing a bet for the three guys/gals or whatever combo is there, they always seem to tell me where they want their bet placed, which is usually the passline. Theoretically if I'm up half of my initial bankroll ($100 is my limit) I'll bet $15 bucks, split three ways of course, and at first I placed $15 in the field, but now I place $5 on the passline and $10 on the odds. I guess they think I'm hosing them if I play the field. I can see them wanting to play the passline odds if the point is 6 or 8 of course. A couple times I've placed a bet in the field and one of the guys will move it to the passline without asking me. I'm not sure if this is a faux pas on their part or what.
The dealers are just like the rest of us, they want to win their bet too. And since the field is a lower percentage bet, the dealers would prefer their bet goes on the pass line.
However, I do think it is poor taste for a dealer to move the bet you made for them.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 14th, 2010 at 11:07:55 AM
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It's more than that. Not only is the line bet more likely to win, if it's a line bet, you're more likely to throw a buck behind it too.Quote: RaleighCrapsThe dealers are just like the rest of us, they want to win their bet too. And since the field is a lower percentage bet, the dealers would prefer their bet goes on the pass line.
But there's more:
Some casinos will round UP the odds on dealer bets. I.E. $1 on the line, plus $1 odds will pay $1 plus $2 no matter what the number was. Not all casinos do that, but some do. Those that do will also pay 2:1 for $1 dealer place bets. That's one way to beat the 1.41% house advantage. (Hear that Tutti?)
I could not agree more.Quote: RaleighCrapsHowever, I do think it is poor taste for a dealer to move the bet you made for them.
But before you put out a field for the dealer, you may want to ask what their preference is, and/or ask what a $1 PL plus $1 odds on a number other than 4/10 would pay.
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March 30th, 2010 at 12:07:34 AM
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if im playing the PL, ill sometimes tip them a $1 on hard 6 or 8 if the point is a 6 or 8.
if im playing the DP, ill sometimes throw them a $1 for any craps on the comeout roll.
if im playing the DP, ill sometimes throw them a $1 for any craps on the comeout roll.
April 3rd, 2010 at 6:35:02 AM
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Every time I tell the dealers I'm making a bet for them they tell me to play the passline with odds. Usually if I'm doing well I'll give $5 a piece, so $5 on the line and $10 on the odds.
April 3rd, 2010 at 8:55:18 AM
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My buddy and I had a good system going for tips the last trip. Since he was doing better overall, he would make a $5 PL bet for the dealers, and I would lay the odds, $5-$10. Worked out great for everyone.
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April 3rd, 2010 at 9:24:11 AM
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betting the PL or DP for the dealers at the table minimum and taking or laying odds, you are really overtipping the dealers. but if thats your thing, then whatever.
April 3rd, 2010 at 10:15:14 AM
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I've an etiquette question: should I ask the dealers if they prefer a straight tip or a bet?
If I were dealing, I'd prefer a straight up tip. There is a house advantage. So in the long run if all tips came as bets, I'd expect I'd lose tip money. But maybe dealers see it diferently, or they prefer to gamble on company time.
To me it makes no diference to wither hand the dealer X dollars or to bet X dollars for him.
If I were dealing, I'd prefer a straight up tip. There is a house advantage. So in the long run if all tips came as bets, I'd expect I'd lose tip money. But maybe dealers see it diferently, or they prefer to gamble on company time.
To me it makes no diference to wither hand the dealer X dollars or to bet X dollars for him.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
April 3rd, 2010 at 10:38:34 AM
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Most dealers aren't allowed to tell you their perference. Evidence of collusion and all that BS. Some casinos won't allow you to parlay a dealer bet. You have to do it in your "mind." Just more stupid paranoia, imo.
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There are ways around both these obstacles though various verbal sleights, inferences, etc.
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There are ways around both these obstacles though various verbal sleights, inferences, etc.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
April 3rd, 2010 at 11:30:21 AM
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Quote: teddysMost dealers aren't allowed to tell you their perference. Evidence of collusion and all that BS. Some casinos won't allow you to parlay a dealer bet. You have to do it in your "mind." Just more stupid paranoia, imo.
If I worked security at a casino I'd go with extreme paranoia and let management worry what let me get away with. But then it is security's job to be paranoid. Think of it as erring on the side of caution. I can relate to that, as I take some rather extreme precautions against tardiness in my line of work.
Having said that, I agree asking for tip preferences is over the line. Parlaying a bet is arguable, but not in craps. In craps the dealer has no control over the outcome, none at all. A player who can control the outcome of a throw doesn't need to collude with a dealer.
In games like BJ a dealer having won a bet on his behalf and having parlayed it, might burn a card he knew to be bad for the tipping player and hence for him. How would he know? it is possible, if the dealer can count cards and carry on his job. It's very unlikely but it is possible, ergo it is arguable.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
April 3rd, 2010 at 11:47:20 AM
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The casino here is more rinky dink compared to the big boys so I'm not sure if they even pay attention to stuff like that. I was kind of ticked off the first time I placed a field bet and the dealer moved it over to the passline. It was only 5 bucks and the field isn't the best bet but still it was my choice where to play it.
April 3rd, 2010 at 12:09:08 PM
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I understand that it might be better to not ask what he prefers or what the dealers prefer, but instead to ask him what he thinks dealers generally prefer. That way he is not indicating his preferences but simply his opinion about an industry-wide preference.Quote: NareedI've an etiquette question: should I ask the dealers if they prefer a straight tip or a bet?
April 3rd, 2010 at 12:09:33 PM
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Quote: derik999I was kind of ticked off the first time I placed a field bet and the dealer moved it over to the passline. It was only 5 bucks and the field isn't the best bet but still it was my choice where to play it.
The moment you give the dealer the tip, it's his money. We can argue whether the tip is given when the bet is placed, in which case it's his money and he can move it to any bet, or just pocket it. Or whether the tips' given after the bet for the dealers pays off (if it does). I can see a dealer would prefer a pass line bet on a come out roll.
I'd say that if a bet is made for the dealer, then it's his when you place the bet.
When I read about placing bets for delaers, I often wonder if the dealers don't think the customer is playing with their money. it feels that way to me. Like tossing a coin to a waiter instead of leaving it on the table.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
April 3rd, 2010 at 2:39:19 PM
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Quote: rudeboyoibetting the PL or DP for the dealers at the table minimum and taking or laying odds, you are really overtipping the dealers. but if thats your thing, then whatever.
First, you don't have to tip at the table min. You can put a buck on the line for the dealers even if the table min is 25. Second, maybe it's overtipping, but not necessarily. If you are betting black on the line, 5 and a little odds isn't too much after a win, even if you are betting less, it's not overtipping.
April 3rd, 2010 at 3:19:36 PM
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In my opinion that was uncalled for when the dealer moved your bet to the passline from the field. I would have been ticked off too. I hope you rolled a two or twelve just to tick him off :)
Reminds of the last time I tried to tip the dealers at the craps table. I put $5 in the Field and said "dealers in the field, parlay." I rolled a nine, so it won. However, they wouldn't allow me to parlay, saying "the house doesn't want us to gamble." So I let them have the $10. Ummm...but weren't you gambling when I placed the bet for you in the first place? How is parlaying different? Basically, they said if I wanted to parlay I would just place a bet normally, let it ride, and then give the whole thing to the dealers as a hand-in tip. But where's the fun in that if the dealers aren't playing along?
For what it's worth, I rolled about five more field numbers after that so they would have gotten like a $160 tip (not sure how many times I would have parlayed it). I could tell my dealer was somewhat pissed.
Reminds of the last time I tried to tip the dealers at the craps table. I put $5 in the Field and said "dealers in the field, parlay." I rolled a nine, so it won. However, they wouldn't allow me to parlay, saying "the house doesn't want us to gamble." So I let them have the $10. Ummm...but weren't you gambling when I placed the bet for you in the first place? How is parlaying different? Basically, they said if I wanted to parlay I would just place a bet normally, let it ride, and then give the whole thing to the dealers as a hand-in tip. But where's the fun in that if the dealers aren't playing along?
For what it's worth, I rolled about five more field numbers after that so they would have gotten like a $160 tip (not sure how many times I would have parlayed it). I could tell my dealer was somewhat pissed.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
April 3rd, 2010 at 4:12:42 PM
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I wonder if the one roll bets are treated differently than the place bets?
I can place a $6 6&8, announce "player control", and then have the dealers alternate taking a payout and pressing the bets. Of course, they bank the leftover change on the presses.
I wonder what would happen if you announced "player control" on the field or hardways bet. Would they allow it, or would you be told player control is only allowed on place bets.
I can place a $6 6&8, announce "player control", and then have the dealers alternate taking a payout and pressing the bets. Of course, they bank the leftover change on the presses.
I wonder what would happen if you announced "player control" on the field or hardways bet. Would they allow it, or would you be told player control is only allowed on place bets.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
April 3rd, 2010 at 4:18:25 PM
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I was at the Palazzo a while ago, and was laying down bets for the dealers on the 6 and 8, announcing "player control." The rolls were going well, and then I put down bets for them on the 4, 5, 9 and 10 as well. I had come bets + full odds on them.
Things were going great, and everyone was very excited, when a pit boss came by and said that the dealers would have to take the bets I had made for them down. I could not control those bets. They were pissed, I was pissed, and then what do you know: I 7d out.
Colored up, took my chips, and told the pit boss I was going to the Wynn.
Things were going great, and everyone was very excited, when a pit boss came by and said that the dealers would have to take the bets I had made for them down. I could not control those bets. They were pissed, I was pissed, and then what do you know: I 7d out.
Colored up, took my chips, and told the pit boss I was going to the Wynn.
April 3rd, 2010 at 4:45:44 PM
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Quote: gentlemanloserI was at the Palazzo a while ago, and was laying down bets for the dealers on the 6 and 8, announcing "player control." The rolls were going well, and then I put down bets for them on the 4, 5, 9 and 10 as well. I had come bets + full odds on them.
Things were going great, and everyone was very excited, when a pit boss came by and said that the dealers would have to take the bets I had made for them down. I could not control those bets. They were pissed, I was pissed, and then what do you know: I 7d out.
Colored up, took my chips, and told the pit boss I was going to the Wynn.
Now there is a man after my own heart. You can't win any of those arguments, but you can always exercise your option to go play someplace else, and let the pit know why you are leaving.
I was playing at Paris 2 years ago, was doing well, and had been tipping quite a bit. A player learning the game came in at the other end of the table, and since she was new, kept making late bets, hands in the tub when the stick would push the dice to me. Her dealer was helping her, but he never once explained to her she should not bet once the dice are pushed out. So I started waiting to pick up the die, until I knew she was not going to bet. At this point the stick gets short with me, and tells me to "roll the dice when I give them to you". So I reply, "Then don't give me the dice until they are done betting on that end." He replies, "It's my game, I control the play." I replied," And it's my money, so take it all down. I am done." Left my $5 PL on the table, and walked off. My wife had been standing off to the side and figuring I was PO'd, did not follow me right away. She was near enough to hear the box ask the stick "What the hell was that for? That guy has been tipping all night long. Not a smart move."
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
April 3rd, 2010 at 5:49:54 PM
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Quote: RaleighCrapsI wonder what would happen if you announced "player control" on the field or hardways bet. Would they allow it, or would you be told player control is only allowed on place bets.
I asked this question specifically and was told I couldn't call player control in my situation.
Quote: gentlemanloserI was at the Palazzo a while ago, and was laying down bets for the dealers on the 6 and 8, announcing "player control." The rolls were going well, and then I put down bets for them on the 4, 5, 9 and 10 as well. I had come bets + full odds on them.
Things were going great, and everyone was very excited, when a pit boss came by and said that the dealers would have to take the bets I had made for them down. I could not control those bets. They were pissed, I was pissed, and then what do you know: I 7d out.
Colored up, took my chips, and told the pit boss I was going to the Wynn.
Ha! Nicely done. And Raleigh, you made the right move. No need to put up with a disgruntled stick or box (why is it always stick or box? I've never had a sour dealer). Especially in Las Vegas where you can just walk right next door and get an identical game anywhere at anytime. Sometimes they forget they are in the customer service business. Maybe if you were in Squamish, Idaho it'd be a different story.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
April 3rd, 2010 at 6:13:01 PM
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The great thing about Vegas is that if you don't like where you are playing and am not getting treated well, you can walk to another casino who will be happy to take your money, give you free drinks, and take tips.
A great example of this is the surly unfriendly dealer in Vegas. I don't get it. I can get up and walk to a much more friendly dealer, usually in the same casino. Why would I want to play with someone who is in a bad mood and clearly is not interested in dealing with the customer?
A great example of this is the surly unfriendly dealer in Vegas. I don't get it. I can get up and walk to a much more friendly dealer, usually in the same casino. Why would I want to play with someone who is in a bad mood and clearly is not interested in dealing with the customer?
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April 4th, 2010 at 10:56:28 AM
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Quote: cclub79First, you don't have to tip at the table min. You can put a buck on the line for the dealers even if the table min is 25. Second, maybe it's overtipping, but not necessarily. If you are betting black on the line, 5 and a little odds isn't too much after a win, even if you are betting less, it's not overtipping.
hence why i said tipping the table min is overtipping.
lets say its a $5 table and your strategy is to put out a passline or come wager with full odds on every roll of the dice. that strategy will lose you about $7.50/hr. if you also tip a $1 on hard 6 or 8 for the crew every time a 6 or an 8 is the point. that will also cost you around $8/hr. thats a sane way of tipping and its still doubling your theoretical loss. if you start overtipping with PL or DP bets with odds several times an hour, your theoretical loss is going to be astronomical.
April 4th, 2010 at 11:04:20 AM
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I usually only tip when I'm up quite a bit. If I'm losing my rear end then I'm not in the state of mind where I'm going to want to tip and go further into a hole. If I get wiped out and have a red remaining I'll usually just throw it out onto the table for the dealers and head to the ATM if I want to play another game. The first time I played craps and was getting a lot of help from the dealers, I probably tipped around $30 over the 2-3 hours I was playing since I wasn't doing too bad. I wanted them to remember me for future occasions of course so they'd be willing to be helpful since I showed my appreciation before.
Whenever the subject of tips comes up at a table game I'll usually make a comment that it is a tip job and that the dealers make minimum wage, in hopes that the other players will show a little more generosity. I've seen guys make a few hundred bucks on a good run and throw a couple whites out and call it a day. To me that just seems sort of tacky.
Whenever the subject of tips comes up at a table game I'll usually make a comment that it is a tip job and that the dealers make minimum wage, in hopes that the other players will show a little more generosity. I've seen guys make a few hundred bucks on a good run and throw a couple whites out and call it a day. To me that just seems sort of tacky.
April 4th, 2010 at 9:00:37 PM
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I agree that a PL bet at table min with single odds is over tipping. Of course, I usually will only PL tip when I am shooting, so 3x or 4x an hour.
If I am up, I will do a $6 Place 6/8 for the dealers. I have come to count on the dealers to earn those tips though.
I generally have 2 or 3 variations on my play, but they are all fairly straightforward. I always place the 6/8, if they are not the point. In return for those tips, I expect the dealer to point out for me that I don't have money on the 6/8 for whatever reason. And pointing that out right after a 6 was rolled is not the right time. I would say 90% of the dealers I have played with are on top of their game and point this out for me, even when the tables are full. If a dealer catches this twice in a 4 hour session for me, that is $70 to $140 extra that I have that I wouldn't have, so that over tip has more than paid for itself.
If I am up, I will do a $6 Place 6/8 for the dealers. I have come to count on the dealers to earn those tips though.
I generally have 2 or 3 variations on my play, but they are all fairly straightforward. I always place the 6/8, if they are not the point. In return for those tips, I expect the dealer to point out for me that I don't have money on the 6/8 for whatever reason. And pointing that out right after a 6 was rolled is not the right time. I would say 90% of the dealers I have played with are on top of their game and point this out for me, even when the tables are full. If a dealer catches this twice in a 4 hour session for me, that is $70 to $140 extra that I have that I wouldn't have, so that over tip has more than paid for itself.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
