3 Card Poker Playing Pair plus only
Quote: billybabeI do play where the PP is a low house edge. Is playing the pair plus ONLY a bad idea?
Billy- your question is too vague for anyone to give you a reasonable answer.
What is the house edge on your PP side bet? (Low is too vague a word)
What are your goals when going to the casino?
What kind of bankroll do you have?
If you are NOT playing PP, what would you be playing?
Etc....
Here is the PP payout
SF 40
3 Kind 30
str8 6
Flsh 4
Pair 1
I have about $300..and would liek to double it. Thniking betting $10 hand on the pairplus only (also betting the $1 side bet with spades royal prog. jackpot ($6K)...not playing the ante (they allow pairplus betting only
3 Card Poker Prog pays are---
Mini Royal in spades Jackpot ----Envy$100
Mini Royal $500 ----Envy$25
Straight Flush I think was $80
Three of a Kind I think was $70
Playing the regular game has an HE that is not much better, even factoring in the "element of risk" that the Wizard does. So I think your idea of playing just the side bet and not the regular game is fine.
To have the side bet desirable seems unusual, but it's all relative. Neither the regular game or the side bet has much appeal to someone looking for low HE. As others are urging here, forget about a strategy to win, double your money, or any of that. Play the game if you think it will be fun to win occasionally while realizing that you will lose overall.
there was a certain casino in eastern PA that was using it
but they switched over in April to 40-30-6-3-1.
Quote: WongBowhich casino is using the 40-30-6-4-1 table?
there was a certain casino in eastern PA that was using it
but they switched over in April to 40-30-6-3-1.
Turning Stone uses this paytable.
Quote: winmonkeyspit3Turning Stone uses this paytable.
I've talked to people who said they used to let players play just the Pairs Plus there. Is the good pay table the reason why they don't let players do that anymore? Were they losing money, or is this a case of management being just as superstitious as the average player?
Quote: FourFiveFaceI've talked to people who said they used to let players play just the Pairs Plus there. Is the good pay table the reason why they don't let players do that anymore? Were they losing money, or is this a case of management being just as superstitious as the average player?
The regular Vegas Pair+ table has a house edge of 7.3% or so, while the Ante-Play bet have a house edge of around 3.5% In such cases, the casino should encourage players to bet on Pair+ only. Not to mention Caesars' awful 6-Card Bonus and 1,000,000 dollar bets (ugh!)
The good Pair+ Pay table, on the other hand, has a house edge of 2.7% or so. That's very good for any casino, but I can see the point of requiring a higher HE bet to go along with it.
Quote: FourFiveFaceI've talked to people who said they used to let players play just the Pairs Plus there. Is the good pay table the reason why they don't let players do that anymore? Were they losing money, or is this a case of management being just as superstitious as the average player?
You are correct. They haven't let people bet pairs plus only in years. The good pay table is likely the reason as the pairs plus has a 2.3 HA and the other bets are 3.5 HA. Out of about 80 tables in the casino there are 7 3CP tables, and they are always packed, so there is no way they were losing money on the game. The minimum is usually 10 or 15 with it occasionally creeping up to 25 on the Friday and Saturday nights and occasionally (but rarely) going down to 5 early in the morning. With how insanely popular this game is at Turning Stone, I'm guessing the casino management just figured they'd rather see 30/45 in action per hand than just the 15 on the pairs plus. Except for from about 4AM-8AM I have never seen an idle dealer on a 3CP table. I don't know why it's so popular but I have a feeling that the paytable has something to do with it. Personally I avoid this game because I have hit only two 3 of a kinds and no straight flushes in about 9 hours of total play, and when I got my trip 7's I was only betting a red.
Quote: odiousgambit40-30-6-4-1 is a good paytable with an HE of -2.32% according to the Wizard's page.
Playing the regular game has an HE that is not much better, even factoring in the "element of risk" that the Wizard does. So I think your idea of playing just the side bet and not the regular game is fine.
To have the side bet desirable seems unusual, but it's all relative. Neither the regular game or the side bet has much appeal to someone looking for low HE. As others are urging here, forget about a strategy to win, double your money, or any of that. Play the game if you think it will be fun to win occasionally while realizing that you will lose overall.
What did you mean by "To have the side bet desirable seems unusual"...And THANKS ALL for your replies.
Quote: billybabeQuote: odiousgambit40-30-6-4-1 is a good paytable with an HE of -2.32% according to the Wizard's page.
Playing the regular game has an HE that is not much better, even factoring in the "element of risk" that the Wizard does. So I think your idea of playing just the side bet and not the regular game is fine.
To have the side bet desirable seems unusual, but it's all relative. Neither the regular game or the side bet has much appeal to someone looking for low HE. As others are urging here, forget about a strategy to win, double your money, or any of that. Play the game if you think it will be fun to win occasionally while realizing that you will lose overall.
What did you mean by "To have the side bet desirable seems unusual"...And THANKS ALL for your replies.
I think what odiousgambit meant is that it is unusual for long shot bets (which I would consider the 3 of a kind and str flush) to have a lower HA than the main bet, which in this case is usually even money. You usually give up more EV for the chance to "hit the big one" so to speak. Notice how PGP PGT Blackjack Baccarrat and European Roulette red/black are all even money bets. It should come as no surprise that these have lower HA than bets like sic bo, let it ride, caribbean stud and others which offer a big reward.
Quote: rdw4potusI don't know about bankroll doubling, but I regularly play the PP only on a 50/40/30/5/4/1 paytable when the progressive is over $13k. The whole game is +EV at that point...
How so? What qualifies to win the progressive, and what bet do you need to make to win it?
Quote: Boney526How so? What qualifies to win the progressive, and what bet do you need to make to win it?
The progressive is an extra $1 bet, AKQ of spades wins it. AKQ of another suit wins $500, straight flush wins $70, 3 of a kind wins $60, straight wins $6. If another player at your table wins the progressive you get $100, and if another player gets a mini royal in another suit, you get $25. The progressive bet breaks even around $10,000. With a progressive of $14k, every $1 bet there is worth about $1.25. With a 4% house edge, a $5 PP bet should lose $.20/hand. So, you "should" win $.05/hand under those conditions. (all payouts are "for-1", all values are approximate)
Quote: rdw4potusThe progressive is an extra $1 bet, AKQ of spades wins it. AKQ of another suit wins $500, straight flush wins $70, 3 of a kind wins $60, straight wins $6. If another player at your table wins the progressive you get $100, and if another player gets a mini royal in another suit, you get $25. The progressive bet breaks even around $10,000. With a progressive of $14k, every $1 bet there is worth about $1.25. With a 4% house edge, a $5 PP bet should lose $.20/hand. So, you "should" win $.05/hand under those conditions. (all payouts are "for-1", all values are approximate)
Interesting AP. Unfortunately it is only good at low limits. Can you play more than one hand? Even with two hands you are only making 10 cents a hand, and pairs plus is very high variance. With 30 hands an hour you are making 3 dollars an hour.
Quote: winmonkeyspit3Interesting AP. Unfortunately it is only good at low limits. Can you play more than one hand? Even with two hands you are only making 10 cents a hand, and pairs plus is very high variance. With 30 hands an hour you are making 3 dollars an hour.
I played every spot on the table from about 1am to about 9am on a tuesday/wednesday last year when the progressive was $25k. Didn't hit it, but I did hit AKQ in other suits a couple times. It was kind of fun envying myself on those hands:-)
Edit: with the progressive at $25k, the value is more like $1/spot/hand. My spreadsheet is on my other computer. If I think of it, I'll look later...
Quote: rdw4potusI played every spot on the table from about 1am to about 9am on a tuesday/wednesday last year when the progressive was $25k. Didn't hit it, but I did hit AKQ in other suits a couple times. It was kind of fun envying myself on those hands:-)
Edit: with the progressive at $25k, the value is more like $1/spot/hand. My spreadsheet is on my other computer. If I think of it, I'll look later...
Since you are playing PP only at the 5 dollar minimum you don't even need to look at your cards and make a decision, which speeds up the game. It is smart to clog up the whole table as another player would slow down the game significantly.
Quote: winmonkeyspit3Since you are playing PP only at the 5 dollar minimum you don't even need to look at your cards and make a decision, which speeds up the game. It is smart to clog up the whole table as another player would slow down the game significantly.
Exactly. They did make me accommodate players when they wanted to come by, but that was only 1 or 2 spots for 20 or 30 minutes at a time. The players were also nice enough to play on the end of the table, so that my bets weren't interrupted by their bets. And they generally also only played the PP, especially after the dealer explained what was happening.
Quote: Boney526That's interesting, but I'd think that taxes if you win would reduce the EV to be slightly negative, unless you already counted that in your math.
No taxes considered. But, two considerations relating to the taxes:
1. You could adjust up the point at which you'd start to play to account for anticipated taxation. Without considering taxes, my game breaks even at about $14k. Maybe with taxes in, it'd take a $20k jackpot to make it playable.
2. You're only taxed on your net winnings for the year. Even winning a $14k jackpot, my net winnings would be much less than $14k over 12 months.
