Shohei Ohtani
Poll
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21 members have voted
Quote: terapinedLooks like its all over for Ohtani this year and next year
Right now he is on the disabled list.
Rumor is Tommy John surgery
Could be out till 2020
I wonder if he could have the surgery and be ok to be a DH next year.
It's as if Tanaka and Judge collided and both are lost for the next year and a half.
Quote: billryanThis is why baseball long ago separated hitters from batters. One injury just cost the Angels a starting pitcher and their main DH.
It's as if Tanaka and Judge collided and both are lost for the next year and a half.
Ying yang
on the flip side you have an extra roster slot
As a Yankee fan, just let me say this.
Sometime God's greatest gift is that unanswered prayer. Lots of fans wanted Cashman to go all in on this guy.
Quote: billryanExcept now you have one roster spot and two important roles to fill. They can add a pitcher or they can add a hitter. Either way, they are screwed.
Again
ying yang
You had an extra spot
Say you used that spot for an extra hitter so just one hole on the team to fill
Now you just need a Pitcher
The Angels used the extra spot for PuJols who is now the DH and is already on the team
Angels just have to bring up a Pitcher
When he comes back. Assuming alll skills back. Is he best used as a reliever in high leverage situations 2-3 games a week and a hitter in 3-4ish games a week? Seems to me that might be the best way to maximize his use?
Quote: terapinedAgain
ying yang
You had an extra spot
Say you used that spot for an extra hitter so just one hole on the team to fill
Now you just need a Pitcher
The Angels used the extra spot for PuJols who is now the DH and is already on the team
Angels just have to bring up a Pitcher
It's not really ying and yang.
Otani is an incredible asset without qualification. Particularly at his salary. He already earned his salary for this year and next.
Saying he is less valuable brcause too much equity is lost when he is injured is like saying you wouldn't want Aaron Rodgers as your QB because you're screwed when he's hurt.
I guarantee every team in the league wishes they had him.
Even they might struggle losing both.
Angels are screwed, bigly.
Quote: billryanIf Aaron was your punter, kicker and kick returner, you would have a point. The Yankees can afford to lose a star hitter, or a star pitcher.
Even they might struggle losing both.
Angels are screwed, bigly.
He's more important to the Packers than Otani is to the Angels. A huge amount of equity is tied up in a starting QB. That means you want a better one, not a worse one.
The Cavs would be nothing if LBJ got injured. That's hardly an argument for not wanting him.
I understand your reasoning, but it is just wrong. They have at least $25 million player for 10% of the price. Just because it sucks a lot if he gets injured doesn't mean he isn't a huge asset.
The bigger the asset, the worse it will be when he is injured. If some guy hit 100Hrs a year and pitched 200 innings with a 1.00 era, you could go from WS fav to missing the playoffs if he was hurt. But it's obvious you'd still want him on your team.
I absolutely guarantee you, Cashman still wishes he had Otani. As does every other GM in baseball. The Angels could get a huge haul for him in a trade the day he goes under the knife.
Quote: billryanIf Aaron was your punter, kicker and kick returner, you would have a point. The Yankees can afford to lose a star hitter, or a star pitcher.
Even they might struggle losing both.
Angels are screwed, bigly.
Ed Thorpe and his brother Jim were pretty good multi sport athletes.
Quote: billryanHe isn't an asset. What good is he to the team right now? He was an asset, and may be in 2020 but right now he isn't. It used to be you couldn't trade a player on the DL. I'm not sure if that's the case today, but a pitcher that has underwent Tommy John has little value for the next 18 months.
So it's like having the top prospect in baseball, except you know with total certainty that he can play in the majors.
You're right. That's not an asset.
It's bad to have a player who is too valuable because he might get injured.
Quote: RigondeauxSo it's like having the top prospect in baseball, except you know with total certainty that he can play in the majors.
You're right. That's not an asset.
It's bad to have a player who is too valuable because he might get injured.
Never put all your eggs in one basket. Ever wonder why the Yankees didn't keep pitching Ruth?
The difference between him and a prospect that's a few years away is the team wasn't counting on the prospect this year.
Now they need a #3 starter and a DH.
Maybe they can trade for Tebow. At least he'll put some fannies in the seats.
I don't understand their thinking. Get the operation now, you are fully ready for 2020. Wait until the fall or spring and you might be looking at 2021.
Angels are going nowhere this year. Thinking back, I remember Tanaka wasn't allowed to golf while he rested his shoulder under the same circumstances. Wonder why they think batting is okay but golf isn't.
Quote: billryanHe isn't an asset. What good is he to the team right now? He was an asset, and may be in 2020 but right now he isn't. It used to be you couldn't trade a player on the DL. I'm not sure if that's the case today, but a pitcher that has underwent Tommy John has little value for the next 18 months.
I don't think this is the way I would use the term "asset." I think of the value of an asset as "what could you get back in a trade" and the answer for Ohtani is "a whole lot."
Thought experiment: if I have some investment with a bank where I'm going to receive $1000 in a year, but can't get any money from it until then, I would not say "this is not an asset because I don't get anything out of it until 2019."
Quote: KeeneoneHe is back tonight. Batting 3rd for the Halos as Designated Hitter.
0-4
Suppose he puts up ungodly numbers the rest of the year. Bats .340 with plenty of power. Do you risk letting him pitch again?
I hope he can stay healthy. I'm far from convinced he is going to be a star but I won't mind being wrong. Five or six years of hype has jaded me on him.
Quote: DRich0-4
He did have a walk and a RBI, so nothing exciting but not terrible. Batting 3rd behind Trout could certainly help the Angels this season.
Quote: billryanWhen is he expected to pitch?
I believe he will not pitch until 2020.
.222/.364/.222, 0 HR on the year
.284/.361/.555, 22 HR in his career
.250/.379/.375, 1 HR on the year
.283/.362/.551, 23 HR in his career
Current slash line
.280/.352/.504, 8 HR on the year
.284/.358/.548, 30 HR in his career
Quote: terapinedOhtani hits for the cycle. The triple was a stand up, no need to slide.
Current slash line
.280/.352/.504, 8 HR on the year
.284/.358/.548, 30 HR in his career
It was very surprising to me that Ichiro never hit for the cycle (Ohtani being the first Japanese player to do it in the MLB). But, he didn't have very much power, so not a lot of games with a HR to also git the other 3 hits. I wonder if Ichiro ever did it in NPB...I could try to find out, but I got work to do.
Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: terapinedOhtani hits for the cycle. The triple was a stand up, no need to slide.
Current slash line
.280/.352/.504, 8 HR on the year
.284/.358/.548, 30 HR in his career
It was very surprising to me that Ichiro never hit for the cycle (Ohtani being the first Japanese player to do it in the MLB). But, he didn't have very much power, so not a lot of games with a HR to also git the other 3 hits. I wonder if Ichiro ever did it in NPB...I could try to find out, but I got work to do.
Ohtani thinks this is his 1st cycle ever. In an interview he said he doesn't remember hitting a cycle and said he wasn't a power hitter growing up.
Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: terapinedOhtani hits for the cycle. The triple was a stand up, no need to slide.
Current slash line
.280/.352/.504, 8 HR on the year
.284/.358/.548, 30 HR in his career
It was very surprising to me that Ichiro never hit for the cycle (Ohtani being the first Japanese player to do it in the MLB). But, he didn't have very much power, so not a lot of games with a HR to also git the other 3 hits. I wonder if Ichiro ever did it in NPB...I could try to find out, but I got work to do.
Ichiro supposedly had a ton of power but preferred to hit for average. He was a beast in BP and a lot of people said he'd win the HR derby if he was in it. "I would think he'd win, easy, hands down," - Barry Bonds.
Quote: RigondeauxIchiro supposedly had a ton of power but preferred to hit for average. He was a beast in BP and a lot of people said he'd win the HR derby if he was in it. "I would think he'd win, easy, hands down," - Barry Bonds.
Personally, as a long-time fan of the Mariners, I think the story on Ichiro's supposed power ("but he prefers hitting for average") to be a lot of BS.
It's true that he would hit lots of HRs in BP. But batting practice is just that. Practice with a bunch of meatballs right over the plate. Not with a MLB pitcher trying to get you out. This is anecdotal, but I remember lots of times that Ichiro would come to the plate with runners on and a big deficit. His swing was a little different if he was trying to hit it out of the park. Usually he struck out. I would love to back this up with statistics, but I just don't have the time.
Bottom line, if he could have traded his .311/.355/.402 slash line for a .270/.310/.510 slash line (just making that up), he would have damn well done it as the latter hitter is far more valuable (.820 OPS vs. .757 OPS).
The HR derby comments hold some water, because it's the same types of pitches you get in BP. So maybe he would have been competitive there, who knows.
Quote: AcesAndEightsPersonally, as a long-time fan of the Mariners, I think the story on Ichiro's supposed power ("but he prefers hitting for average") to be a lot of BS.
It's true that he would hit lots of HRs in BP. But batting practice is just that. Practice with a bunch of meatballs right over the plate. Not with a MLB pitcher trying to get you out. This is anecdotal, but I remember lots of times that Ichiro would come to the plate with runners on and a big deficit. His swing was a little different if he was trying to hit it out of the park. Usually he struck out. I would love to back this up with statistics, but I just don't have the time.
Bottom line, if he could have traded his .311/.355/.402 slash line for a .270/.310/.510 slash line (just making that up), he would have damn well done it as the latter hitter is far more valuable (.820 OPS vs. .757 OPS).
The HR derby comments hold some water, because it's the same types of pitches you get in BP. So maybe he would have been competitive there, who knows.
Similar thought experiments (with better analysis) here:
https://www.theringer.com/2016/7/28/16041992/should-ichiro-have-hit-homers-c96633a61262
https://www.sbnation.com/2012/4/24/2970103/ichiro-suzuki-seattle-mariners-stats
I think he is an amazing athlete with incredible bat control but there is no way he would have been a slugger if he tried.
But the Oakland A's win on a walk-off grand slam by Matt Olson. Woohoo!!
https://www.mlb.com/news/shohei-ohtani-first-starting-pitcher-to-lead-mlb-in-homers-since-1921
