Gabes22
Gabes22
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November 10th, 2015 at 4:03:58 PM permalink
Just like the title suggests. New Yorkers can no longer do daily fantasy sports. Regardless of what you think about whether these games are gambling and whether or not they should be considered legal, do you think this ruling will have a snowball effect nationwide?

Personally I think the momentum is growing to allowing legalized sports gambling nationwide or if not nationwide, in a larger portion of the country. You have Commissioner Silver in the NBA, basically advocating or at least understanding this might become a new reality in the near future.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
GWAE
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November 10th, 2015 at 4:09:14 PM permalink
All this over idiot employees scamming the system.

I think it will snowball because the states are not getting part of the action.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
Gabes22
Gabes22
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November 10th, 2015 at 4:11:25 PM permalink
I tend to agree with you, but the popularity of this and the money it generates might be the impetus to legalize sports gambling nationwide.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
FatGeezus
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November 11th, 2015 at 12:28:02 PM permalink
Fantasy owners argue that wagering on their sites is a skill. You look at the stats and you choose who you are going to wager on, therefore it is a skill not a game of chance.

When I go to the horse track, I do the same thing. I look at the stats and I choose what horse I am going to wager on. Betting on horses is called gambling.

Can someone explain why betting on a human is a skill and betting on a horse is gambling?
Ibeatyouraces
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November 11th, 2015 at 12:47:37 PM permalink
Because the outcome is unknown.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
TwoFeathersATL
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November 11th, 2015 at 2:12:02 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Because the outcome is unknown.


I thought that was the definition of gambling, at least in the short run.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Pinit2winit
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November 11th, 2015 at 2:14:06 PM permalink
The solution?? Fanduel and draftkings. ... (.eu)
Wizard
Administrator
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November 11th, 2015 at 2:24:40 PM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus

Fantasy owners argue that wagering on their sites is a skill. You look at the stats and you choose who you are going to wager on, therefore it is a skill not a game of chance.



You could argue that about sports betting in general.

As much as I'm in favor of legalizing Internet gambling I do strongly think that Fantasy Sports betting is gambling. It should be legal but not for the reason that is isn't really gambling.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
terapined
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November 11th, 2015 at 3:10:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You could argue that about sports betting in general.

As much as I'm in favor of legalizing Internet gambling I do strongly think that Fantasy Sports betting is gambling. It should be legal but not for the reason that is isn't really gambling.



I think the daily or weekly leagues are gambling
On the flip side
I play yahoo fantasy Basketball season pay league
Its cheap, just 20 bucks a team.
We have a draft and you are locked into your players for the season unless you trade or drop and pick up undrafted players.
I view my season long league as skill.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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November 11th, 2015 at 3:23:56 PM permalink
Here's my two cents. I love playing fantasy sports. Now I get to do it online for money. I agree there needs to be regulation to prevent abuse or inside information. I don't like the creators of one site playing on another, much less at all. It's ripe for conflicts of interest.

That said, I finally started to get better at this. I was in the bottom 10% the first 4 weeks. Then I started building my own models to analyze the games and I jumped to in the money which is like top 20-30%.

I'm still trying to uncover the mysteries of fantasy success. (All puns intended.) Please don't take this away from me. It's given me excitement that I have not had in my life performing monotonous tasks to earn a living. I spent hours building a model that earned me less than a $1 an hour, but I loved every second of it. Why? Because I was doing it for myself and not for some greedy corporation. Society always told you that you could do anything. Have you ever felt stuck in the mud in life, career, ambition? Let me live a little.

Is it gambling? Look, crossing the street is a gamble. Do you have the athletic skill to make it in time? Is there an element of chance and randomness in every thing we do? Yes. Leave the fantasy exception as is. Let us dream to be bigger than we really are.

Play that Real Men of Genius, Mr. Fantasy Football Manager Guy song. Let us dream.
aceofspades
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November 11th, 2015 at 3:32:00 PM permalink
Fanduel and DraftKings are merely pari-mutuel wagering
Gabes22
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November 11th, 2015 at 3:45:30 PM permalink
I agree AoS. I think it is gambling, but I don't think it should be illegal in most states. I think many of the same arguments for legalized marijuana can be used for legalized sports gambling.

Take it out of the hands of unscrupulous people and regulate it through the government (many would argue the gov't is unscrupulous as well).
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
Boz
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November 11th, 2015 at 3:51:07 PM permalink
Gambling pure and simple. What upsets me is that the leagues support this but are against sports betting. Pure BS. Allow sports betting and see if 10% of the bettors win 90% of the money.

If you assume like I do the oddsmaker are damn good, it's a 50/50 prop other than the juice. A monkey has the same chance of winning on any game compared to these fantasy game that the average guy who sees a ad and bets (yes bets) has a slim chance of winning.

The real criminal here is Roger Goddell and the others who took the money and looked the other way while being against sports betting. You don't stick it in half way, either support sports gambling or be against it.
Gabes22
Gabes22
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November 11th, 2015 at 3:57:48 PM permalink
We have had at least one major sports commissioner come out in favor of sports legalized sports gambling in America. I think we should just drop the pretense that it is indeed gambling and argue about whether it should be legal.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
Ibeatyouraces
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November 11th, 2015 at 4:08:34 PM permalink
Anyone notice that the WSOP's main sponsor DraftKings was nowhere to be found during the final table episodes? I thought that might happen after the GCB's recent decision.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Pokeraddict
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November 11th, 2015 at 4:19:53 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Anyone notice that the WSOP's main sponsor DraftKings was nowhere to be found during the final table episodes? I thought that might happen after the GCB's recent decision.



WSOP announced that the partnership with DraftKings was severed a few days after Nevada AG opinion was released.
Ibeatyouraces
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November 11th, 2015 at 6:51:56 PM permalink
Quote: Pokeraddict

WSOP announced that the partnership with DraftKings was severed a few days after Nevada AG opinion was released.


Didn't see it.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
terapined
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November 11th, 2015 at 7:50:26 PM permalink
Lets say this daily fantasy really explodes into really really big money (not that it is already big)
The easiest sport to fix is boxing.
Just need one guy.
Team sports is tough to fix
but now
with individual performance the overriding factor rather then team performance deciding fantasy outcomes
Money gets big enough, corruption of individual performances is a real possibility.
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
DRich
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November 11th, 2015 at 8:07:23 PM permalink
Quote: terapined


Team sports is tough to fix
but now
with individual performance the overriding factor rather then team performance deciding fantasy outcomes
Money gets big enough, corruption of individual performances is a real possibility.



I had this discussion with a line maker from Stations casinos recently. He didn't agree with me in the beginning of the conversation but I think by the end our view points were much closer.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
NokTang
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November 11th, 2015 at 8:25:53 PM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus


Can someone explain why betting on a human is a skill and betting on a horse is gambling?




It's simple really. A human can tell you he/she is hurt or not feeling well. An animal can't. In addition, you feed an animal things which slow him/her down such as popcorn(dogs), but the human chooses to ingest it or not. That goes for PED's as well, combined with when he/she can go to the bathroom and get some relief. All of it is communication and being able to read another human is easier and a "skill" whereas reading a horse or dog is next to impossible. Think about poker. Many call it skill but is it really?
FatGeezus
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November 12th, 2015 at 8:39:18 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Because the outcome is unknown.



Whether you call it a skill or gambling if the outcome was known before you wagered it wouldn't be called a skill or gambling. It would be called winning.
Ibeatyouraces
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November 12th, 2015 at 8:44:15 AM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus

Whether you call it a skill or gambling if the outcome was known before you wagered it wouldn't be called a skill or gambling. It would be called winning.


Gambling is defined as betting or wagering money or anything of value on an "unknown" event. Professional bowlers on the PBA are gamblers also they pay entry fees and win prizes just as poker players. It's all gambling.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
FatGeezus
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November 12th, 2015 at 8:50:04 AM permalink
Quote: NokTang

It's simple really. A human can tell you he/she is hurt or not feeling well. An animal can't. In addition, you feed an animal things which slow him/her down such as popcorn(dogs), but the human chooses to ingest it or not. That goes for PED's as well, combined with when he/she can go to the bathroom and get some relief. All of it is communication and being able to read another human is easier and a "skill" whereas reading a horse or dog is next to impossible. Think about poker. Many call it skill but is it really?



Can a human tell you when he is going to be hurt in a game. Can he tell you when he is going to pull a hamstring. Can he tell you when he will sprain his ankle. Can he tell you when he will break a wrist.

NO!!

You can use all of your skill to pick an athlete or a horse but you are taking a chance on the results. That is why it is a gamble.

People are still waiting for Big Brown (a sure thing) to cross the finish line.
jml24
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November 12th, 2015 at 11:47:49 AM permalink
Almost all games have an element of skill and an element of chance. Most games that are historically popular for gambling have elements of both. The skilled players have to win the long run or they won't provide the games. The suckers have to win some of the time or they won't keep coming back. I don't play daily fantasy sports but I assume the profit potential for the sites is similar to poker in that they take some kind of fee and then it is you vs. the other players. So, it is in the interest of the sites to maintain a skill / chance balance. Many would argue that the reason Texas Hold'em has become the dominant form of poker is because it has an optimal balance between skill and chance.

I agree that betting online should be legal and it doesn't really matter how much is skill or chance. The only reason online betting is illegal is so the legal casinos can protect their profts. This is why Sheldon Adelson is pouring millions into getting a stronger federal ban against online gambling that would shut down the legal state sites. This is why gambling online is a felony in WA (a tribe with a major casino donated big to the legislator that sponsored the bill.) It's no secret betting on the NFL is one of the most popular forms of gambling in the country, so why keep it mostly underground?
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