Cardinals - Braves: Disputed Wild Card Game.
Eighth inning,braves at bat.
One out, runners on first and second.
Pop up into shallow left.
Ball drops, hits the ground.
Instead of the bases now being loaded,
Umpire rules the batter out, invoking the infield fly rule,
Even though the ball was out of the infield.
After twenty minute delay, During which the field is covered in debris from the stands,
The game continues, resulting in a loss for the braves.
braves fans litter the field with more debris in protest ...
This is a fairly important game to be affected by a bad call.
Discuss...
"An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.
When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.”
The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul.
If a declared Infield Fly is allowed to fall untouched to the ground, and bounces foul before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball. If a declared Infield Fly falls untouched to the ground outside the baseline, and bounces fair before passing first or third base, it is an Infield Fly.
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder—not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire’s judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.
When an infield fly rule is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05 (L). The infield fly rule takes precedence."
The key is that the infielder can catch the ball with "ordinary effort"--so the umpire has to make a judgement call on what level of effort is necessary to catch it. I thought it was a long run for the infielder to get to the ball and that the play did not meet that definition. There is no requirement for the ball to remain in the infield.
I was taught, while umpiring Little League many moons ago, that it was an immediate decision--that is, if it is a normal play for an infielder, call it as soon as the ball is in the air (adding "if fair" if there is a question of fair or foul possible) and call it loudly. I realize loudly may not help much in a already noisy environment but my OPINION is that thee signal should be given quickly or not all. The base coaches and runners can pick it up and decide from there.
Quote: RonChttp://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp
"An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.
When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare Infield Fly for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare Infield Fly, if Fair.
The key is that the infielder can catch the ball with "ordinary effort"--so the umpire has to make a judgement call on what level of effort is necessary to catch it. I thought it was a long run for the infielder to get to the ball and that the play did not meet that definition. There is no requirement for the ball to remain in the infield.
I think the call was correct. There seem to me to be two key points that are identified in the rules.
One is the concept of 'ordinary effort'. In this case, I think you have to consider the level and skill of the player. At the major league level, ranging out to shallow left field like Kozmo did and then stopping to camp under a fly ball seems like ordinary effort. I think that one can easily imagine how much more effort this would be at the little league level.
The other is the idea that the umpire should 'immediately declare' the ruling. I think this can be debated, but the way I read the rules is that they should declare it 'WHEN it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly', and since it wasn't apparent until Kozmo camped underneath it how can they call it any earlier?
I think the ruling was correct as the rules are currently written. That being said, I'd like to see the rules re-written to take some of the ambiguity out of the calls.
Actually, I'd like to see this rule removed altogether. I know baseball people will argue that it's not fair to the baserunners and allow the defense to potentially turn a double play by deception, since the defense could intentionally drop the ball to turn a double play. I think there are a number of ways defenses use deception to record outs already, such as duping a sliding runner into thinking a ball got past them, so why try to regulate this particular form of deception?
Quote: RonC
I was taught, while umpiring Little League many moons ago, that it was an immediate decision--that is, if it is a normal play for an infielder, call it as soon as the ball is in the air (adding "if fair" if there is a question of fair or foul possible) and call it loudly. I realize loudly may not help much in a already noisy environment but my OPINION is that thee signal should be given quickly or not all. The base coaches and runners can pick it up and decide from there.
I couldn't agree more. This is a call that is made very early preferably when the ball is still going up so that the runners know as soon as possible what their options are. The call was made too late but it was not neccesarily a bad judgement call.
but the present form of the rule was started in 1895. Maybe somebody can explain why the above won't work.
Quote: odiousgambitseems to me the rule should be: there can't be a double play with forced outs, if the fly ball is dropped in or near the infield.
but the present form of the rule was started in 1895. Maybe somebody can explain why the above won't work.
Runners on first and second with one out, and there's a popup to third base; the third baseman lets the ball hit the ground, then picks it up, throws to second for the force, and they get the runner from second in a rundown. Only one of the outs was forced.
There is always going to be a problem with any sort of Infield Fly Rule; for example, what is considered "near the infield"?
Quote: MidwestAPI'd like to see this rule removed altogether. I know baseball people will argue that it's not fair to the baserunners and allow the defense to potentially turn a double play by deception, since the defense could intentionally drop the ball to turn a double play. I think there are a number of ways defenses use deception to record outs already, such as duping a sliding runner into thinking a ball got past them, so why try to regulate this particular form of deception?
I'm no baseball fan who knows all the rules, but I thought the point was that if the call is made and yet the ball is not caught, then the base runners all advance one base, safely, and may not attempt to advance two bases.
That forces the fielder to try to catch it, as he should, while neither punishing or benefitting either side regardless if he does or doesn't catch it.
Am I missing something?
Quote: DJTeddyBearI'm no baseball fan who knows all the rules, but I thought the point was that if the call is made and yet the ball is not caught, then the base runners all advance one base, safely, and may not attempt to advance two bases.
That forces the fielder to try to catch it, as he should, while neither punishing or benefitting either side regardless if he does or doesn't catch it.
Am I missing something?
The runners do not advance automatically. They may choose to try and advance, if they so desire.
If the ball is not caught, the runners may run at any time.
If the ball is caught, the runners must tag up at their base, and can only proceed, AFTER the ball has been caught.
In either event, the batter is automatically out.
But it was my prior understanding that the rule was designed to discourage the fielder from intentionally not making the catch.
So it seems I'm still missing the point. Specifically, why shouldn't a fielder drop the ball if he feels it would create a double play opportunity?
Quote: DJTeddyBearI understood that from reading the rule posted.
But it was my prior understanding that the rule was designed to discourage the fielder from intentionally not making the catch.
So it seems I'm still missing the point. Specifically, why shouldn't a fielder drop the ball if he feels it would create a double play opportunity?
It protects the batters. With a proper infield pop up, no runner will have a chance to make it from 2nd to 3rd on a pop out to, say, the 3rd base man. He gets under it, bats the ball the ground. Picks it up, tags base for the force at third, relays it to 2nd, for the force at second, relays to first... easy triple play.
The infield fly rule is the rule I point to when people tell me cricket is complicated (it's not, not compared to baseball...)
Here is what a quick thinking third baseman could do without the infield fly rule.
Runners are on first, second, and third.
There are no outs.
A pop fly is hit right next to third base.
The runners can't run, because if the ball is caught, they can be called out if they are tagged, or if the ball is thrown back to the base they are supposed to be on.
So the third baseman stands under the fly, and then at the last second lets the ball drop to the ground.
He picks the ball up, tags the runner at third with his glove. Out 1
He then steps on third, which is a force out of the runner on second base. Out 2
He then throws the ball to second base, which forces out the runner from first base. Out 3. Triple play. Inning over.
With the Infield Fly rule, the batter is called out. Out 1
The runners all stay on their bases.
1. The Umpire HAS TOO make the call early, he waited to the very last second to make the call. If you listened to the post game blather, the lateness of the call is what seemed to really bother everyone.
2. The SPIRIT of the rule is to prevent an infielder from intenionally dropping an easy pop-up with runners on and starting an easy double play. This clearly wasn't going to happen here. So no reason to make the call. Really, and nobody seems to be saying this, I thought the left fielder should have called off the shortstop and made the catch. It would have been an easier play for him and he was there in plenty of time.
Quote: vendman1Exact minuate of the wording aside and the nature of the rule itself aside. Two points.
1. The Umpire HAS TOO make the call early, he waited to the very last second to make the call. If you listened to the post game blather, the lateness of the call is what seemed to really bother everyone.
2. The SPIRIT of the rule is to prevent an infielder from intenionally dropping an easy pop-up with runners on and starting an easy double play. This clearly wasn't going to happen here. So no reason to make the call. Really, and nobody seems to be saying this, I thought the left fielder should have called off the shortstop and made the catch. It would have been an easier play for him and he was there in plenty of time.
The MLB rule states that if the infielder can make the play with reasonable effort as easily as the outfielder could make the play (which was exactly what happened here), then the infield fly will be called. For umpiring mechanics, umpires are told to abstain from calling the infield fly until the ball has reached its peak AND the infielder has demonstrated control of their body in a position to make the play. The umpire in this situation did both of these things before signaling for the infield fly and IMO the call was properly administered. Had the shortstop not thought he heard his left fielder calling him off of the ball, he very well could have allowed the ball to drop in front of him and thrown to third and possibly on to 2nd for a double play.
Quote: buzzpaffNow explain to me why you are now out if you bunt foul with two strikes ?
Because guys who are skilled bat-control artists (think Ichiro) can easily bunt-foul pitch after pitch after pitch, tiring out the pitcher and waiting for one good one they can hit. Sure these guys have a decent shot at hitting foul after foul after foul with a traditional swing, but it's even easier with a bunt stance.
