Is Video Blackjack a Table Game or a Slot Machine?

Walking around Las Vegas you see a lot of new video blackjack and roulette games. The appear to be large slot machines with an electronic digital dealer.

My question is are they considered to be table games or slot machines in the eyes of the casino for comp purposes?

The reason why I ask, is if you are under a $25 per hand player, at most major Las Vegas casinos, you would probably not be rated at all at a live table. However, if you are a $25 a hand player at a slot machine blackjack table, you would probably get quite a bit of comps over time.

Anyone know?

The TableMax units, with a big screen showing a dealer, is counted as a slot. There is a place to put in a player card, just as on a slot machine. Some casinos put stickers on the blackjack units saying they don't accumulate points.

The tables at the Red Rock, with a live dealer, but electronic chips, is treated as a table game for comping purposes.

Quote: Wizard

Some casinos put stickers on the blackjack units saying they don't accumulate points.

I would agree that they are simply slot machines with a large video screen but kudos to the casinos that post a small placard near where the player's card is inserted that addresses this issue of comp points rather than disappointing their customers with insufficient player club points.

Really?

That's completely opposite to what intuition dictates.

We've been told that slot players earn more comps than table players for a couple basic reasons: Less personnel, higher edge, and even though a lower amount risked per event, a higher amount risked per hour.

That said, it seems like on all points, the TableMaster machines fall somewhere between a regular table and a slot machine. So you'd think that it would earn comps in between as well. Or at least at the same rate as tables.

But no comps at all?

Quote: Wizard

The TableMax units, with a big screen showing a dealer, is counted as a slot. There is a place to put in a player card, just as on a slot machine. Some casinos put stickers on the blackjack units saying they don't accumulate points.

Can you clear that up for me--you can put in the card but you get nothing for it?

It tracks your play but probably doesn't accumulate comp points because the casino is probably already paying a rakeoff, er uh, licensing fee, to the company that owns the electronic table.

I think what happened is that on big multiplier days the players had an advantage, and some advantage players played them hard on those days. What would be a fair fix would be to have them earn points at a slower rate, like the full pay machines at the Station casinos.

Quote: Wizard

The TableMax units, with a big screen showing a dealer, is counted as a slot. There is a place to put in a player card, just as on a slot machine. Some casinos put stickers on the blackjack units saying they don't accumulate points.

The tables at the Red Rock, with a live dealer, but electronic chips, is treated as a table game for comping purposes.

wizard i would enjoy talking with u by phone and email in detail about certain machines in vegas i think are beatable, but which ive ran extremely poorly on.. and also, as far as i know unless its new, none of the station casinos have the shufflemaster VBJ machines, and i wish a complete list could be found of all the casinos they are at, am curious if primm or pahrump has them.

so u are saying, in a different post and on a different forum, where u publish an odds chart, me losing 100 bets out 1000 hands should only happen 1 time in 200? seems to happen a lot more than that, quite frequently and yet im using basic strategy perfectly. there is a casino in vegas paying 2% cashback on a certain day, and yet i still lost over $2500 varying my bets between $20 and $80 over the course of 5 hours depending on whether the previous hand or 2 used up primarily small cards or big cards. (which to me makes far more sense than flat betting cannot understand for the life of me why others insist i should flatbet the promo). even if its not helping me it shouldnt hurt me. most of the bets were in the smaller range, so i felt i lost way more than i shouldve. considering the machines shouldve paid over 101% on that day. my average bet was around $35 and yet i lost over 80bb even with the promo. and its not just that day and that casino, i just heard of that promo and it probably wont last, and is one of the things id like to talk to u about over the phone or by email, but i often play them for room comps at other places like slotsoffun and laughlin with the same good rules paying 3-2 and not shuffling til 2 3rds of 6 decks.

Quote: Wizard

I think what happened is that on big multiplier days the players had an advantage, and some advantage players played them hard on those days. What would be a fair fix would be to have them earn points at a slower rate, like the full pay machines at the Station casinos.

if u would like to know why, a couple years back before they took them out, the golden nugget had this sign on their 3-2 VBJ machine, ill tell u. I WAS THE ONE WHO INSISTED THEY PUT THE SIGN ON. and the reason i did was because formerly they did NOT have the sign up, yet still werent paying any comps or cashback for the play on them, and i felt cheated when i wasnt warned, made a huge fuss, went over my slot host a few levels to upper management, and so they put the sign up warning the players, and permanently blocked me from ever getting any type of food or room comp ever again. YES THATS TRUE. guess i pissed them off wanting them to not "cheat" the customer.

Quote: gambler

Walking around Las Vegas you see a lot of new video blackjack and roulette games. The appear to be large slot machines with an electronic digital dealer.

My question is are they considered to be table games or slot machines in the eyes of the casino for comp purposes?

The reason why I ask, is if you are under a $25 per hand player, at most major Las Vegas casinos, you would probably not be rated at all at a live table. However, if you are a $25 a hand player at a slot machine blackjack table, you would probably get quite a bit of comps over time.

Anyone know?

Legally they are considered slots and not electronic table games. The reason is that every player is dealt from a separate 6 deck shoe of cards which is played 2/3 of the way through. As such, they are permitted in locations that do not allow table games. One player has no influence on the other even though they are sitting like it is a blackjack table.

I realize that is not your original question, since you are concerned about comps.

Quote: pacomartin

Legally they are considered slots and not electronic table games. The reason is that every player is dealt from a separate 6 deck shoe of cards which is played 2/3 of the way through. As such, they are permitted in locations that do not allow table games. One player has no influence on the other even though they are sitting like it is a blackjack table.

As far as I know the thing about the separate shoes is true only in Pennsylvania, for the reason you stated. Here in Vegas everyone's cards are dealt from the same electronic shoe.

Quote: Wizard

As far as I know the thing about the separate shoes is true only in Pennsylvania, for the reason you stated. Here in Vegas everyone's cards are dealt from the same electronic shoe.

u didnt address any of what i posted earlier, but heres a new thought.

if im not using the same shoe that the dealers using how would it affect how id vary my play from basic strategy depending on the count if my deck has a good high count and the dealers shoe has a low count, or if i have a low count and the dealer has a high count, instead of us both having the same plus or minus count? would be difficult to judge if me and the dealer dont both have the count the same.

Quote: Wizard

As far as I know the thing about the separate shoes is true only in Pennsylvania, for the reason you stated. Here in Vegas everyone's cards are dealt from the same electronic shoe.

As I remember, at the Sahara the signs said it was played from a common single deck shuffled every hand. It also had a place to put your comp card in. I'm disappointed if I wasn't getting full credit as a slot player, but then again my Sahara points aren't worth too much these days anyway. At least I have a hat and a nice deck of cards for home poker games.