Help, I'm confused
I guess a little background will help, I have dropped some of this in replies across the forums but here's a quick context for my situation. I live in Kansas. I work at one of the state owned casinos and am coming up on 3 year anniversary of my hire date. It was drilled into me that we, as a company, want responsible gaming to occur and we take steps to ensure that. I take that very seriously and tell people the flat truth when they ask about the casino, slots, table games, and odds.
The reason I am confused is that it is my understand that Kansas Gaming and Racing Commission only authorizes slot machines in state owned or tribal casinos. I have seen at two gas stations in my local area that have what appear to be slot machines in publicly accessible areas. They do not appear to be Class 2 (bingo) slot machines but one of them has an option on the screen that says "prize tracker" and when I touched it the screen had a little pop up that said something to the effect of "next spin prize $0". This is specifically the ones below. Behind the chair is a slot for a bill validator and another slot where it says "ticket", which I assume is the slot for the printed TITO equivalent that they use.
The reason I am confused is that, to my knowledge, KRGC doesn't distinguish between Class 2 and Class 3 slot machines.
Quote:https://www.letsgambleusa.com/kansas/gambling-laws/
(1) “gambling device” means any:
(A) So-called “slot machine” or any other machine, mechanical device, electronic device or other contrivance an essential part of which is a drum or reel with insignia thereon, and:
(i) Which when operated may deliver, as the result of chance, any money or property; or
(ii) by the operation of which a person may become entitled to receive, as the result of chance, any money or property;
(B) other machine, mechanical device, electronic device or other contrivance including, but not limited to, roulette wheels and similar devices, which are equipped with or designed to accommodate the addition of a mechanism that enables accumulated credits to be removed, is equipped with or designed to accommodate a mechanism to record the number of credits removed or is otherwise designed, manufactured or altered primarily for use in connection with gambling, and:
(i) Which when operated may deliver, as the result of chance, any money or property; or
(ii) by the operation of which a person may become entitled to receive, as the result of chance, any money or property;
(C) subassembly or essential part intended to be used in connection with any such machine, mechanical device, electronic device or other contrivance, but which is not attached to any such machine, mechanical device, electronic device or other contrivance as a constituent part; or
(D) any token, chip, paper, receipt or other document which evidences, purports to evidence or is designed to evidence participation in a lottery or the making of a bet.
The fact that the prize is not automatically paid by the device does not affect its character as a gambling device.
I plan on reporting this when I get into work tomorrow as there are KRGC agents on duty but if anyone has any better understanding of Kansas gambling laws or can get me in touch with anyone who can to help me understand exactly if these type of games are illegal and if they are what loophole they are using.
That said, these look remarkably similar to Missouri "No-chance games", which are vaguely similar to Pennsylvania "skill" games.
These games try and skirt the spirit of the law by giving the player the option to look up future outcomes before playing, so (technically) it's not (quite) gambling.
Quote: DieterKansas isn't a jurisdiction I'm read up on.
That said, these look remarkably similar to Missouri "No-chance games", which are vaguely similar to Pennsylvania "skill" games.
These games try and skirt the spirit of the law by giving the player the option to look up future outcomes before playing, so (technically) it's not (quite) gambling.
link to original post
I know that some "skill" games have been contested to KRGC as legal recently but I can't find the exact outcome/ruling on them. My Google-fu is lacking
https://www.ksn.com/news/local/skill-games-can-stay-in-wichita-bars-stores-at-least-for-now/
Oh damn, while googling, I found this
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/statute/074_000_0000_chapter/074_087_0000_article/074_087_0061_section/074_087_0061_k/
Quote:74-8761. Gray machines prohibited; penalties; prosecutorial authority of the attorney general and the Kansas racing and gaming commission. (a) It shall be a severity level 9, nonperson felony for any person to place in operation or continue to have in place any gray machine for use by members of the public at any location in this state.
(b) It shall be the duty of the attorney general and the Kansas racing and gaming commission to enforce the provisions of this section, together with any rules and regulations adopted pursuant thereto. The attorney general and the Kansas racing and gaming commission shall have original jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute violations of this section.
and
https://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/statute/074_000_0000_chapter/074_087_0000_article/074_087_0002_section/074_087_0002_k/
Quote:(h) "Gray machine" means any mechanical, electro-mechanical or electronic device, capable of being used for gambling, that is: (1) Not authorized by the Kansas lottery; (2) not linked to a lottery central computer system; (3) available to the public for play; or (4) capable of simulating a game played on an electronic gaming machine or any similar gambling game authorized pursuant to the Kansas expanded lottery act.
So if I am reading that definition right, and the statute above it correctly then those are 1000% illegal. Can anyone confirm my logic or am I just crazy?
Quote: AitchTheLetterQuote: DieterKansas isn't a jurisdiction I'm read up on.
That said, these look remarkably similar to Missouri "No-chance games", which are vaguely similar to Pennsylvania "skill" games.
These games try and skirt the spirit of the law by giving the player the option to look up future outcomes before playing, so (technically) it's not (quite) gambling.
link to original post
I know that some "skill" games have been contested to KRGC as legal recently but I can't find the exact outcome/ruling on them. My Google-fu is lacking
https://www.ksn.com/news/local/skill-games-can-stay-in-wichita-bars-stores-at-least-for-now/
Oh damn, while googling, I found this
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/statute/074_000_0000_chapter/074_087_0000_article/074_087_0061_section/074_087_0061_k/Quote:74-8761. Gray machines prohibited; penalties; prosecutorial authority of the attorney general and the Kansas racing and gaming commission. (a) It shall be a severity level 9, nonperson felony for any person to place in operation or continue to have in place any gray machine for use by members of the public at any location in this state.
(b) It shall be the duty of the attorney general and the Kansas racing and gaming commission to enforce the provisions of this section, together with any rules and regulations adopted pursuant thereto. The attorney general and the Kansas racing and gaming commission shall have original jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute violations of this section.
and
https://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2023_24/statute/074_000_0000_chapter/074_087_0000_article/074_087_0002_section/074_087_0002_k/Quote:(h) "Gray machine" means any mechanical, electro-mechanical or electronic device, capable of being used for gambling, that is: (1) Not authorized by the Kansas lottery; (2) not linked to a lottery central computer system; (3) available to the public for play; or (4) capable of simulating a game played on an electronic gaming machine or any similar gambling game authorized pursuant to the Kansas expanded lottery act.
So if I am reading that definition right, and the statute above it correctly then those are 1000% illegal. Can anyone confirm my logic or am I just crazy?
link to original post
they are as illegal as "near misses" on slot machines (theres a joke in there if you understand)... and tbh it probably doesnt matter as the people selling these most likely have enough money to stall things from being removed in court long enough to leave these machines out to make back the lawyers fees who is fighting for them
Quote: AitchTheLetterSo if I am reading that definition right, and the statute above it correctly then those are 1000% illegal. Can anyone confirm my logic or am I just crazy?
link to original post
"Bingo pinball machines" have always been illegal in California. That never stopped quite a few store/bar/pool hall owners from running them.
This sort of thing is treated like driving over the speed limit - it's illegal, but it's only a problem if you're caught.
idk if these are it but some of the "games" that this company sells are based off of "nudging" and the way that they do it HAS to be the same way near misses work.
near misses have been turned into a feature rather than a problem
