Best friend got hit with civil asset forfeiture. Slot AP will come up in his defense.
Now his court case is in a couple weeks, and he is facing 10 years in prison and seizure of all of his property. Naturally, slot AP will come up as part of his defense. Is there any way around this? We generally don't like letting random people in on the mechanics behind how certain plays work, but explaining the existence of advantage slot play to a jury and a judge seems almost unavoidable in this court case.
Quote: ctslotsTo keep a long story short, about half a year ago, my buddy was traveling around Oklahoma with $105k in cash and foolishly told a cop who pulled him over for speeding all about it and let the cop search his car, who proceeded to plant cocaine in it. He got arrested for a few days and I had to get one of our buddies to go post his $25k bail. They stole all his property (including his car/ID/bank card/phone etc.), and since he doesn't actually live in Oklahoma (he lives on the entire opposite end of the country) and had no car, we pretty much had to babysit him for a while until we could get a lot of this sorted.
Now his court case is in a couple weeks, and he is facing 10 years in prison and seizure of all of his property. Naturally, slot AP will come up as part of his defense. Is there any way around this? We generally don't like letting random people in on the mechanics behind how certain plays work, but explaining the existence of advantage slot play to a jury and a judge seems almost unavoidable in this court case.
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I believe you but the probability of a bad cop is just slim because you can’t prove it. Get the badge cam. If he covered or turned off the camera at all you may have something.
Your friend might be fucked because a police officers word is legally taken over anyone who isn’t a part of the team so to say
Civil Asset Forfeiture: 7 Things You Should Know - March 26, 2014
https://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/03/civil-asset-forfeiture-7-things-you-should-know
Quote: heatmapQuote: ctslotsTo keep a long story short, about half a year ago, my buddy was traveling around Oklahoma with $105k in cash and foolishly told a cop who pulled him over for speeding all about it and let the cop search his car, who proceeded to plant cocaine in it. He got arrested for a few days and I had to get one of our buddies to go post his $25k bail. They stole all his property (including his car/ID/bank card/phone etc.), and since he doesn't actually live in Oklahoma (he lives on the entire opposite end of the country) and had no car, we pretty much had to babysit him for a while until we could get a lot of this sorted.
Now his court case is in a couple weeks, and he is facing 10 years in prison and seizure of all of his property. Naturally, slot AP will come up as part of his defense. Is there any way around this? We generally don't like letting random people in on the mechanics behind how certain plays work, but explaining the existence of advantage slot play to a jury and a judge seems almost unavoidable in this court case.
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I believe you but the probability of a bad cop is just slim because you can’t prove it. Get the badge cam. If he covered or turned off the camera at all you may have something.
Your friend might be fucked because a police officers word is legally taken over anyone who isn’t a part of the team so to say
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Specifically what happened is the initial search was not very thorough. He checked the backpack holding his cash quickly, and only one compartment of it. The department insists that they found cocaine later, when they weren't filming, back at the station, so the body cam is insufficient.
Quote: ChumpChangeOklahoma seems like a fascist state just on this description alone. But asset forfeiture is a national scourge so it's hard to just pick on one state. A lawyer that specializes in asset forfeiture is necessary. You can mention you play slots for profit, maybe show a tax return; but the cop planting drugs in the car is a death knell. Suing to get your money & car back is the other side of the coin. Not sure it's possible to win.
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A problem with showing a tax return is that it was his first year doing it, so he has no tax records other than $140,000 in handpays on which he didn't withhold federal tax (intending to pay at end of year).
Quote: ctslotsQuote: heatmapQuote: ctslotsTo keep a long story short, about half a year ago, my buddy was traveling around Oklahoma with $105k in cash and foolishly told a cop who pulled him over for speeding all about it and let the cop search his car, who proceeded to plant cocaine in it. He got arrested for a few days and I had to get one of our buddies to go post his $25k bail. They stole all his property (including his car/ID/bank card/phone etc.), and since he doesn't actually live in Oklahoma (he lives on the entire opposite end of the country) and had no car, we pretty much had to babysit him for a while until we could get a lot of this sorted.
Now his court case is in a couple weeks, and he is facing 10 years in prison and seizure of all of his property. Naturally, slot AP will come up as part of his defense. Is there any way around this? We generally don't like letting random people in on the mechanics behind how certain plays work, but explaining the existence of advantage slot play to a jury and a judge seems almost unavoidable in this court case.
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I believe you but the probability of a bad cop is just slim because you can’t prove it. Get the badge cam. If he covered or turned off the camera at all you may have something.
Your friend might be fucked because a police officers word is legally taken over anyone who isn’t a part of the team so to say
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Specifically what happened is the initial search was not very thorough. He checked the backpack holding his cash quickly, and only one compartment of it. The department insists that they found cocaine later, when they weren't filming, back at the station, so the body cam is insufficient.
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Pay a good crim defense lawyer. Sounds like there’s a real 4th amendment issue to contest.
Quote: ctslotsThey stole all his property (including his car/ID/bank card/phone etc.)
he is facing 10 years in prison and seizure of all of his property.
Naturally, slot AP will come up as part of his defense. Is there any way around this? We generally don't like letting random people in on the mechanics behind how certain plays work, but explaining the existence of advantage slot play to a jury and a judge seems almost unavoidable in this court case.
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The only motive I can think of for the cops' planting the cocaine would be to take all or most of the cash, and yet you seem to imply that there is some kind of civil forfeiture going on.
Crooked cops wouldn't leave the cash to be seized, they would just take it.
The quantity of cocaine needed to get your friend a 10 year sentence, even in Oklahoma, wouldn't be a quantity a patrol cop would just have in his car - this sort of setup would require rapid coordination with more than one crooked cop.
Your story implies that he was taken in, and the drugs found (allegedly) later. So...what was he taken in for anyway? And why? (Again, if the patrolman's report was "suspicion of this or that for having too much cash on him" then he'd have to put down that a lot of cash was on him, which would make it harder to just take it to line the crooked cops' pockets.)
And if all of what you say is how it is, releasing your AP slots play to a small pool of people in Oklahoma doesn't seem like it would be a concern at all if it is indeed part of your only defense. But again, if the slots story is to explain why your friend had $105K on him, and the cops just took all or most of that and never reported it, how is it much of a defense? Or if the cops did report all the cash, then what do the cops get out of planting cocaine on him?
Hire a good criminal attorney and do whatever he suggests.
A decade ago a family member was driving his car as a cab service (basically unlicensed). He got pulled over by cops doing a ride and he gave the cop permission to search. They found pounds of cocaine in his customers luggage.
They both get locked up as they both claim it doesn't belong to them
My family member got off because he had a clean record and had dozens of family and customers vouch he was running a cab (he spent 4 months locked up first) but also because the other guy on his attorneys advice claimed the drugs as his.
That may sound shocking but after claiming it was his, the attorney then pointed to the Suitcase as his property and that the officers violated his right to illegal search.
Basically the cop asked to search the car and got permission for the car only from the driver. He should have asked who's bag was in the trunk and obtained permission to search that from the owner of the bag.
We were all dumbfounded that both parties got off.
That's why you hire an experienced attorney.
The police planted the cocaine at the station. The police did not find the cocaine at the scene; they admit as much. They only found it later at the police station. It was a very small amount in a dime bag. He was initially arrested for money laundering. His new charges don't include money laundering but do include felony possession of drug proceeds, misdemeanor possession of a controlled substance, and misdemeanor possession of drug-related paraphernalia. The police did report the $105,000 in cash that they seized. That's where the forfeiture comes in; they're trying to legally steal the money through civil asset forfeiture.Quote: MDawgQuote: ctslotsThey stole all his property (including his car/ID/bank card/phone etc.)
he is facing 10 years in prison and seizure of all of his property.
Naturally, slot AP will come up as part of his defense. Is there any way around this? We generally don't like letting random people in on the mechanics behind how certain plays work, but explaining the existence of advantage slot play to a jury and a judge seems almost unavoidable in this court case.
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The only motive I can think of for the cops' planting the cocaine would be to take all or most of the cash, and yet you seem to imply that there is some kind of civil forfeiture going on.
Crooked cops wouldn't leave the cash to be seized, they would just take it.
The quantity of cocaine needed to get your friend a 10 year sentence, even in Oklahoma, wouldn't be a quantity a patrol cop would just have in his car - this sort of setup would require rapid coordination with more than one crooked cop.
Your story implies that he was taken in, and the drugs found (allegedly) later. So...what was he taken in for anyway? And why? (Again, if the patrolman's report was "suspicion of this or that for having too much cash on him" then he'd have to put down that a lot of cash was on him, which would make it harder to just take it to line the crooked cops' pockets.)
And if all of what you say is how it is, releasing your AP slots play to a small pool of people in Oklahoma doesn't seem like it would be a concern at all if it is indeed part of your only defense. But again, if the slots story is to explain why your friend had $105K on him, and the cops just took all or most of that and never reported it, how is it much of a defense? Or if the cops did report all the cash, then what do the cops get out of planting cocaine on him?
Hire a good criminal attorney and do whatever he suggests.
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How did money laundering while driving down the highway come up?
Why is a small bag amounting to a misdemeanor translating into $105,000?
And if he has W2-G that add up to $105,000 or more why the need to mention AP? The guy has proof he won money at the casino. Mentioning AP might even result in some additional bogus charges. A lot of people don't understand AP. I don't know how many times people think using another person's players card is illegal.
I watched the body cam footage of the arrest. The police officer who arrested him said that if he has any amount over $10,000 and doesn't deposit it into a bank, it's money laundering because of the Bank Secrecy Act. He also asserted that my friend was intentionally keeping his wins below $1,200 to avoid having to notify the IRS. Why is a small bag amounting to a misdemeanor translating into $105,000? My friend explained he got the money gambling. The police officer called this a cover story in his statement. Why does he need to mention AP? The prosecution claims that in order to gain the $140,000 in handpays, my friend likely had to put in $500,000 or more gambling, putting him in the red over $350,000. They also described his gambling behavior as "bill stuffing"; that is, putting money into machines, playing very little, then cashing out in order to seem as if he won the money gambling.Quote: darkozSomething isn't adding up here.
How did money laundering while driving down the highway come up?
Why is a small bag amounting to a misdemeanor translating into $105,000?
And if he has W2-G that add up to $105,000 or more why the need to mention AP? The guy has proof he won money at the casino. Mentioning AP might even result in some additional bogus charges. A lot of people don't understand AP. I don't know how many times people think using another person's players card is illegal.
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Very sophisticated talk and knowledge (and mis-knowledge) of the ins and outs of both gaming and federal level monetary crimes for an Oakie beat cop.Quote: ctslotsI watched the body cam footage of the arrest. The police officer who arrested him said that if he has any amount over $10,000 and doesn't deposit it into a bank, it's money laundering because of the Bank Secrecy Act. He also asserted that my friend was intentionally keeping his wins below $1,200 to avoid having to notify the IRS. Why is a small bag amounting to a misdemeanor translating into $105,000? My friend explained he got the money gambling. The police officer called this a cover story in his statement.
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Still doesn’t explain why they planted the cocaine. So they’re crooked enough to plant drugs but not crooked enough to steal any of the $105,000.?
I’d think something like this would make the newspapers in Oklahoma.
My guess is that a different officer, likely a superior, planted the cocaine. The original officer simply reported the account honestly upon reaching the station. The drugs were planted days later.Quote: MDawgVery sophisticated talk and knowledge (and mis-knowledge) of the ins and outs of both gaming and federal level monetary crimes for an Oakie beat cop.Quote: ctslotsI watched the body cam footage of the arrest. The police officer who arrested him said that if he has any amount over $10,000 and doesn't deposit it into a bank, it's money laundering because of the Bank Secrecy Act. He also asserted that my friend was intentionally keeping his wins below $1,200 to avoid having to notify the IRS. Why is a small bag amounting to a misdemeanor translating into $105,000? My friend explained he got the money gambling. The police officer called this a cover story in his statement.
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Still doesn’t explain why they planted the cocaine. So they’re crooked enough to plant drugs but not crooked enough to steal any of the $105,000.?
I’d think something like this would make the newspapers in Oklahoma.
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Honestly everything you described sounds like a casino coordinating with local enforcement.
Was this tribal land casino?
For that matter, how did you view the cops bodycam footage? That's not something that gets released without requests, court-ordered or perhaps discovery?
And what's up with this prosecutor? Where did this person come from? Seems tailor made to bolster the police dept. civil asset forfeiture especially from vehicles leaving the casino premises. If the casino didn't call him, he was there stalking winners. It looks like a criminal heist ring under color of law.
It got released to his lawyer and my friend shared it with me. Yes, it was a tribal casino. It wasn't the cop who made the claims about bill stuffing; it was the prosecution.Quote: darkozBill stuffing is a casino term. I have seen it before. Cops don't know gambling stuff. They wouldn't be able to make a very doubtful claim like "it must have cost $500,000 to get $105,000" (BTW losing most of your money gambling definitely isn't anyone definition of money laundering ).
Honestly everything you described sounds like a casino coordinating with local enforcement.
Was this tribal land casino?
For that matter, how did you view the cops bodycam footage? That's not something that gets released without requests, court-ordered or perhaps discovery?
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Quote: ctslotsIt got released to his lawyer and my friend shared it with me. Yes, it was a tribal casino. It wasn't the cop who made the claims about bill stuffing; it was the prosecution.Quote: darkozBill stuffing is a casino term. I have seen it before. Cops don't know gambling stuff. They wouldn't be able to make a very doubtful claim like "it must have cost $500,000 to get $105,000" (BTW losing most of your money gambling definitely isn't anyone definition of money laundering ).
Honestly everything you described sounds like a casino coordinating with local enforcement.
Was this tribal land casino?
For that matter, how did you view the cops bodycam footage? That's not something that gets released without requests, court-ordered or perhaps discovery?
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Okay so it's most likely the prosecution is being fed information (however wrong) by the Indian casino to avenge AP action.
I saw an AP get on the Pennsylvania banned list for bill stuffing. The accusation was the person was stuffing bills as fast as possible to jam the machines.
Sounds good to layman and ploppies. Totally ridiculous to AP. If a bill gets stuffed and jammed the attendant will come fix the machine and just hand back the bill. There is absolutely no advantage and bill stuffing is literally a casino boogeyman for when they can't understand how an AP works. (The guy in PA was doing something but it wasn't that. And he got banned for the made up charge). And no that guy wasn't me either lol.
Without explaining AP you can have an expert refute bill stuffing. Explaining AP can be dangerous. There may be jurors who see anything that beats casinos as illegal. The very actions you describe could convince someone you are money laundering. Better get a good attorney.
It's somewhat bizarre though that he still goes to all of these casinos without any issue and plays there using his player's card and presenting his ID for handpays. It makes me think perhaps that isn't what's going on.Quote: darkozQuote: ctslotsIt got released to his lawyer and my friend shared it with me. Yes, it was a tribal casino. It wasn't the cop who made the claims about bill stuffing; it was the prosecution.Quote: darkozBill stuffing is a casino term. I have seen it before. Cops don't know gambling stuff. They wouldn't be able to make a very doubtful claim like "it must have cost $500,000 to get $105,000" (BTW losing most of your money gambling definitely isn't anyone definition of money laundering ).
Honestly everything you described sounds like a casino coordinating with local enforcement.
Was this tribal land casino?
For that matter, how did you view the cops bodycam footage? That's not something that gets released without requests, court-ordered or perhaps discovery?
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Okay so it's most likely the prosecution is being fed information (however wrong) by the Indian casino to avenge AP action.
I saw an AP get on the Pennsylvania banned list for bill stuffing. The accusation was the person was stuffing bills as fast as possible to jam the machines.
Sounds good to layman and ploppies. Totally ridiculous to AP. If a bill gets stuffed and jammed the attendant will come fix the machine and just hand back the bill. There is absolutely no advantage and bill stuffing is literally a casino boogeyman for when they can't understand how an AP works. (The guy in PA was doing something but it wasn't that. And he got banned for the made up charge). And no that guy wasn't me either lol.
Without explaining AP you can have an expert refute bill stuffing. Explaining AP can be dangerous. There may be jurors who see anything that beats casinos as illegal. The very actions you describe could convince someone you are money laundering. Better get a good attorney.
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Can you elaborate on this?Quote: ctslotsand foolishly told a cop who pulled him over for speeding all about it and let the cop search his car
Purposely causing a tilt on a machine is a move people use to get get the employees to open the machine so they can view the RTP and for various other data they might want.Quote: darkozQuote: ctslotsIt got released to his lawyer and my friend shared it with me. Yes, it was a tribal casino. It wasn't the cop who made the claims about bill stuffing; it was the prosecution.Quote: darkozBill stuffing is a casino term. I have seen it before. Cops don't know gambling stuff. They wouldn't be able to make a very doubtful claim like "it must have cost $500,000 to get $105,000" (BTW losing most of your money gambling definitely isn't anyone definition of money laundering ).
Honestly everything you described sounds like a casino coordinating with local enforcement.
Was this tribal land casino?
For that matter, how did you view the cops bodycam footage? That's not something that gets released without requests, court-ordered or perhaps discovery?
link to original post
link to original post
Okay so it's most likely the prosecution is being fed information (however wrong) by the Indian casino to avenge AP action.
I saw an AP get on the Pennsylvania banned list for bill stuffing. The accusation was the person was stuffing bills as fast as possible to jam the machines.
Sounds good to layman and ploppies. Totally ridiculous to AP. If a bill gets stuffed and jammed the attendant will come fix the machine and just hand back the bill. There is absolutely no advantage and bill stuffing is literally a casino boogeyman for when they can't understand how an AP works. (The guy in PA was doing something but it wasn't that. And he got banned for the made up charge). And no that guy wasn't me either lol.
Without explaining AP you can have an expert refute bill stuffing. Explaining AP can be dangerous. There may be jurors who see anything that beats casinos as illegal. The very actions you describe could convince someone you are money laundering. Better get a good attorney.
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So the cop's story is that you need cashier's checks from the casino before you drive away with more than $10K in value.
The cop was an interdiction officer who likely specializes in seizing cash. The cop was prying into his life; he asked about what job he has, why he is in Oklahoma, and where he is staying. When he learned he is staying in a hotel in Oklahoma and travels around between casinos with no job, he started to ask questions about how much cash he has. When my friend told him how much money he has on him, the police officer asked for permission to search the vehicle. Despite my friend's initial refusal to allow the search, the police officer insisted for several minutes that he needs to ensure that the money was acquired legally, so my friend eventually agreed. Upon finding the money in his car, he arrested my friend for money laundering, even though he accused my friend of evading taxes in the same conversation.Quote: AxelWolfCan you elaborate on this?Quote: ctslotsand foolishly told a cop who pulled him over for speeding all about it and let the cop search his car
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Oct 6, 2010
Tulsa - Channel 2
The sheriff's office and the DA's office are getting cuts of this seizure.
It only takes like five $20K jackpots to get to $100K. They could be handpays or voucherpays. If they are voucherpays, you can go to the cage and get cash or a casino cashiers check when you leave. You apparently got cash. The lawyer involved might need those casino security tapes to prove where the money came from for better inference. Maybe security tapes will expose this prosecutor lurking near the cage or one of the handpays.
So your friend is smart enough to make a bunch of money advantage playing slots and accumulate 100k+, but, well... he is doing everything possibly wrong in this situation.Quote: ctslotsThe cop was an interdiction officer who likely specializes in seizing cash. The cop was prying into his life; he asked about what job he has, why he is in Oklahoma, and where he is staying. When he learned he is staying in a hotel in Oklahoma and travels around between casinos with no job, he started to ask questions about how much cash he has. When my friend told him how much money he has on him, the police officer asked for permission to search the vehicle. Despite my friend's initial refusal to allow the search, the police officer insisted for several minutes that he needs to ensure that the money was acquired legally, so my friend eventually agreed. Upon finding the money in his car, he arrested my friend for money laundering, even though he accused my friend of evading taxes in the same conversation.Quote: AxelWolfCan you elaborate on this?Quote: ctslotsand foolishly told a cop who pulled him over for speeding all about it and let the cop search his car
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Including traveling in that area with much money, an area that's known for this in the first place
Things that make you say hmmm!!
To be fair, it doesn't take a genius to make it in slots, especially when I was giving him in-depth instructions on what games to play, how to play them, and which casinos to go to. However, we've absolutely found plays where we needed to put in over $70k, and we would rather have a buffer in the case it goes ultra shit, so I don't think carrying that amount is particularly avoidable when we are taking down so many big machines.Quote: AxelWolfSo your friend is smart enough to make a bunch of money advantage playing slots and accumulate 100k+, but, well... he is doing everything possibly wrong in this situation.Quote: ctslotsThe cop was an interdiction officer who likely specializes in seizing cash. The cop was prying into his life; he asked about what job he has, why he is in Oklahoma, and where he is staying. When he learned he is staying in a hotel in Oklahoma and travels around between casinos with no job, he started to ask questions about how much cash he has. When my friend told him how much money he has on him, the police officer asked for permission to search the vehicle. Despite my friend's initial refusal to allow the search, the police officer insisted for several minutes that he needs to ensure that the money was acquired legally, so my friend eventually agreed. Upon finding the money in his car, he arrested my friend for money laundering, even though he accused my friend of evading taxes in the same conversation.Quote: AxelWolfCan you elaborate on this?Quote: ctslotsand foolishly told a cop who pulled him over for speeding all about it and let the cop search his car
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Including traveling in that area with much money, an area that's known for this in the first place
Things that make you say hmmm!!
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Money laundering and tax evasion are federal crimes and no police office on the side of the road would have any jurisdiction to arrest you for them, without a warrant
I apologize. Money laundering is a crime in Oklahoma.
https://www.goldinglawyers.com/how-money-laundering-tax-evasion-intersect-for-criminal-tax/
So the tax evasion charge is bogus since he hasn't even filed taxes yet. The money laundering charges are bogus unless the cops think he has Miami Vice-like kilos of cocaine somewhere in the wings. The highway officer had no reason to suspect drugs. He just saw cash and stole it under false pretenses and false arrest. And don't forget the car too!
Why did you pull me over?
I'm not discussing my day (repeat as many times as is needed).
Am I being detained, or am I free to go?
(if detained) I invoke the 5th (then STFU).
Know the laws of the state you are in.
If you are asked to do anything you are not legally required to do, REFUSE with a simple no, or I do not consent to "search/test/etc" (in most states this includes field sobriety tests, and any searches).
Also if your state is a single party consent state (I know some aren't like NY state for one) then at the minimum voice recording could be useful.
The 5th amendment is NOT designed for just the guilty, though that's what we would be made to think. It was actually put into place for the INNOCENT. So to protect yourself if you are innocent then use what you have available (4th/5th)! We make money off of rules in AP, lets not give it all back by not knowing how things work elsewhere.
My friend just struggles to actually implement these rules in practice. We have watched dozens of videos where people talk to the police and laughed at how stupid they are. I've told him all the things you said dozens of times before his arrest and even shown him videos directly relating to civil asset forfeiture and explained that if the police found his money, they will almost always take it. I told him repeatedly that if he doesn't consent to a search, it makes it a lot harder for them to justify the search or seizure in court. He just cracked under pressure. Most of my AP friends seem to struggle when authority is pressuring them. For example, one of my friends got backroomed by a casino while I was on the phone with him. I told him to immediately hang up with me and start recording. An hour later, he called me back, and I asked him to send me the video. He told me the security officer told him to stop recording and delete the video. He complied.Quote: Talldude90The following is all you should say at a traffic stop, guilty or not guilty.
Why did you pull me over?
I'm not discussing my day (repeat as many times as is needed).
Am I being detained, or am I free to go?
(if detained) I invoke the 5th (then STFU).
Know the laws of the state you are in.
If you are asked to do anything you are not legally required to do, REFUSE with a simple no, or I do not consent to "search/test/etc" (in most states this includes field sobriety tests, and any searches).
Also if your state is a single party consent state (I know some aren't like NY state for one) then at the minimum voice recording could be useful.
The 5th amendment is NOT designed for just the guilty, though that's what we would be made to think. It was actually put into place for the INNOCENT. So to protect yourself if you are innocent then use what you have available (4th/5th)! We make money off of rules in AP, lets not give it all back by not knowing how things work elsewhere.
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Many people simply crumble when faced with authority pressuring them, and APs often are no different.
