Roberto21
Roberto21
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August 30th, 2023 at 11:53:03 PM permalink
Just saw a crazy example of overinflated jackpots on Beth Loves Vegas YouTube channel (link below). Just curious what everyone’s thoughts are on this casino practice? Is it fair? Should the casinos give back the money in other ways (e.g. through drawings, etc) to keep it fairer? I just think this has the potential to be exploited by insider information being leaked to casino employee friends/family about ridiculously lucrative jackpot opportunities. Like, who wouldn’t want to get the Mini on Dancing Drums when it’s been set to $9000+ from a $10 reset. I think it’s unfair, but curious to hear what other people have to say.

https://youtu.be/jcKOJDC-gR4?si=ZGGmzoxzdJXmlizN

Video title: I WON $100K+ GRAND JACKPOT BETTING PENNIES!! BIGGEST GRAND JACKPOT EVER IN LAS VEGAS!!
McSweeney
McSweeney
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August 31st, 2023 at 12:14:40 AM permalink
Wow, that is completely insane. My casino always dumps progressives taken off the floor into the Grand jackpot so you have no chance of winning it anyway. It's casino incompetence to put it into the Mini or Minor and will probably lead to fistfights or death threats or something from advantage players fighting each other for it! I know something like this would never survive at certain casinos I visit that are completely infested with APs (unlike in that video where the people who won them just seem to be random casuals). At the very least they should only put Mini into another Mini, etc.
KimWoojin142
KimWoojin142
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October 8th, 2023 at 6:05:21 AM permalink
Hey there! Yeah, I've seen some pretty wild examples of overinflated jackpots in my time, and it's definitely a controversial topic. I can understand why casinos do it , it's a way to generate buzz and draw players in, especially with the promise of life-changing money. But at the same time, it does feel kind of unfair, especially when the odds of winning are so incredibly low.

I mean, think about it , if a jackpot is inflated to $9000+ from a $10 reset, that means the casino is essentially guaranteeing that someone will win that amount eventually. And let's be real, we all know that the house edge is built into every game, so the casino is still going to come out ahead in the long run. So yeah, it does seem a bit fishy that they'd artificially inflate the jackpot like that, especially since it's basically impossible for the average player to win it.

That being said, I'm not sure if giving back the money in other ways would necessarily solve the problem. I mean, drawings and bonuses are nice and all, but they're still subject to the same house edge as the original game. Plus, it's hard to say whether those kinds of promotions would actually be effective in combating the perceived unfairness of inflated jackpots.

Personally, I think the best approach might be for casinos to just be more upfront and transparent about their jackpots. If they're going to inflate them, they should at least tell players how much they're inflating them by and how often they're doing it. That way, players can make more informed decisions about whether or not they want to play. And hey, maybe some players don't mind the idea of chasing a huge jackpot, even if the odds are against them. It's all about personal preference, right?

But yeah, I can definitely see how some people might view inflated jackpots as exploitative, especially if they feel like they're being manipulated or deceived. Ultimately, it's up to each individual player to decide whether or not they want to support casinos that engage in this practice. Me personally? I'll stick to games with a lower house edge, thanks very much! 😅
heatmap
heatmap
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October 8th, 2023 at 8:42:34 AM permalink
You guys need to search because I’m not but this exact thing was talked about and resolved

I think it’s completely legal if and only if there has been no one playing on the machine for a while

Paperwork needs to be filed etc
rsactuary
rsactuary
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October 8th, 2023 at 8:47:05 AM permalink
Not only legal but required. Progressives over the reset amount are player funded money and must be put into another machine. There are also restrictions on not being able to put the monies into something that is more difficult to hit than where the money came from (within a 5% margin, I think).

I'll see if I can find the gaming reg.
rsactuary
rsactuary
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October 8th, 2023 at 8:54:41 AM permalink
I thought I saw something more specific than this at one time.

5A.145 Progressive payoff schedules.
1. As used in this section:
(a) “Base amount” means the amount of a progressive payoff schedule initially offered before it
increases.
(b) “Incremental amount’’ means the difference between the amount of a progressive payoff schedule
and its base amount.
(c) “Progressive payoff schedule” means any payoff schedule associated with a game played on an
interactive gaming system, including those associated with contests, tournaments or promotions, that
increases automatically over time or as the game(s) or machine(s) are played.
2. To the extent an operator offers any progressive payoff schedule, the operator shall comply with
this section.
3. The amount of a progressive payoff schedule shall be conspicuously displayed during an
authorized player’s play of a game to which the payoff schedule applies. Each operator shall record the
base amount of each progressive payoff schedule when first exposed for play and subsequent to each
payoff. Explanations for reading decreases shall be maintained with the progressive logs. When the
reduction is attributable to a payoff, the operator shall record the payoff form number on the log or have the
number reasonably available.
4. An operator may change the rate of progression of any progressive payoff schedule provided that
records of such changes are created.
5. An operator may limit a progressive payoff schedule to an amount that is equal to or greater than
the amount of the payoff schedule when the limit is imposed. The operator shall conspicuously provide
notice of the limit during an authorized player’s play of a game to which the limit applies.
6. An operator shall not reduce the amount of a progressive payoff schedule or otherwise eliminate a
progressive payoff schedule unless:
(a) An authorized player wins the progressive payoff schedule;
(b) The operator adjusts the progressive payoff schedule to correct a malfunction or to prevent the
display of an amount greater than a limit imposed pursuant to subsection 5, and the operator documents
the adjustment and the reasons for it; or
(c) The chairman, upon a showing of exceptional circumstances, approves a reduction, elimination,
distribution, or procedure not otherwise described in this subsection, which approval is confirmed in writing.
7. Except as otherwise provided by this section, the incremental amount of a progressive payoff
schedule is an obligation to the operator’s authorized players, and it shall be the responsibility of the
operator, if he ceases operation of the progressive game, to arrange satisfaction of that obligation to the
satisfaction of the chairman.
8. Distribution of progressive payoffs shall only be made to authorized players
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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October 8th, 2023 at 9:58:02 AM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

I thought I saw something more specific than this at one time.


Here's Nevada Gaming Regulation 5.110.5:
A licensee shall not reduce the amount of a progressive payoff schedule or otherwise eliminate a progressive payoff schedule unless:
(a) A player wins the progressive payoff schedule;
(b) The licensee adjusts the progressive payoff schedule to correct a malfunction or to prevent the display of an amount greater than a limit imposed pursuant to subsection 4, and the licensee documents the adjustment and the reasons for it;
(c) The licensee distributes the entire incremental amount to another single progressive payoff schedule on similar game(s) or machine(s) at the licensee’s establishment and:
(1) The licensee documents the distribution;
(2) Any game or slot machine offering the payoff schedule to which the licensee distributes the incremental amount does not require that more money be played on a single play to win the payoff schedule than the game or slot machine from which the incremental amount is distributed unless the incremental amount distributed is increased in proportion to the increase in the amount of the wager required to win the payoff schedule;
(3) If from a slot machine, any slot machine offering the payoff schedule to which the incremental amount is distributed complies with the minimum theoretical payout requirement of Regulation 14.040(1); and
(4) The distribution is completed within 30 days after the progressive payoff schedule is removed from play or within such longer period as the Chair may for good cause approve;
(d) For games other than slot machines, the incremental amount may be distributed within 90 days of removal through a concluding contest, tournament or promotion and the contest, tournament or promotion is conducted with a game(s) similar to the game(s) from which the amounts are distributed; or
(e) The Chair, upon a showing of exceptional circumstances, approves a reduction, elimination, distribution, or procedure not otherwise described in this subsection, which approval is confirmed in writing.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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October 8th, 2023 at 10:26:59 AM permalink
Quote: McSweeney

My casino always dumps progressives taken off the floor into the Grand jackpot so you have no chance of winning it anyway.
link to original post

Same at my casino.
The $115k Grand became $235k the next week. (Machine was turned off for a week. I assume that's a legal requirement by my state.)
And months later, still not hit.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
DRich
DRich
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October 8th, 2023 at 10:41:29 AM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

Not only legal but required. Progressives over the reset amount are player funded money and must be put into another machine. There are also restrictions on not being able to put the monies into something that is more difficult to hit than where the money came from (within a 5% margin, I think).

I'll see if I can find the gaming reg.
link to original post



I do not recall Nevada having a rule similar to the 5% you mentioned. What I do remember is it can't cost more to hit the jackpot on the new machine.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 8th, 2023 at 1:19:20 PM permalink
I don't know exactly what the law states regarding jackpot redistribution in NV, but what I have come to learn from experience. It's whatever NGC approves of. If the casino ask of they can do XY or Z and if gaming approves it, that's, that.

I have complained a few times over the years of unfair redistribution of jackpot funs and they basically told me to go pound sand.

I guess one could go though the entire gaming process.

In my opinion they are usually MORR than fair when redistributing funds.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rsactuary
rsactuary
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October 8th, 2023 at 1:29:37 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: rsactuary

Not only legal but required. Progressives over the reset amount are player funded money and must be put into another machine. There are also restrictions on not being able to put the monies into something that is more difficult to hit than where the money came from (within a 5% margin, I think).

I'll see if I can find the gaming reg.
link to original post



I do not recall Nevada having a rule similar to the 5% you mentioned. What I do remember is it can't cost more to hit the jackpot on the new machine.
link to original post



That may have been what I was thinking. I knew there was some sort of limitation around comparable probability or something like that.
heatmap
heatmap
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October 8th, 2023 at 2:51:25 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It's whatever NGC approves of.
link to original post



if anyone wants to dispute this claim i have internal communications between shuffle master lawyers and PA gaming control board which can help you believe axels claims even more... i have it posted here somewhere but still.
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