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In this game, coins stick on the reels for three spins. If a new coin is added to a reel, the counter for that reel resets to three. If at any time any reel fills with coins, the player wins all those coins. Much like with Cashman Bingo, the coins can have different values. If a machine is abandoned with enough coins on a reel with enough spins left on that reel, then may the vultures have it!
The big question is at what states is the game +EV? I hope to get some good comments on that.
For now, here is a short video of me playing the game, to illustrate the coin-dropping feature.
Direct: https://youtu.be/D5z0IR1dlOo.
I already posted the rule screens at WoO on my, for now, incomplete page on Cash Falls.
There is also a page on the game titled Cash Falls: It’s a Slot Machine Mostly About the Cash Balls at Know Your Slots. Unfortunately, he doesn't get specific on when the game is +EV.
The question for the poll is what are your thoughts on Cash Falls?
and if it connects with cash/progressive symbol, you win that $?
edit:
that's Cash Burst. (Vulture it like OM, except bubbles in col 4+5 are also good)
As for Cash Falls, I haven't seen AP's at my casinos check it. (And they do loops around the casino checking OM, Beatles, the Desert game, etc)
Quote: DieterThe sticky coins blocking the columns until the column is full (or the counter clears) seem to block line hits and bonus triggers.
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Indeed...this game is all about filling up columns. Line hits are few and far between. The variance must be enormous on this one.
Quote: rsactuaryThe variance must be enormous on this one.
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I imagine less than UX TDB, but I don't play that, either.
After 5+ years of ult x tdb, I finally got a Holy Grail last year.Quote: DieterI imagine less than UX TDB, but I don't play that, either.Quote: rsactuaryThe variance must be enormous on this one.
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Aces with kicker with 12x multiplier at 10cent.
There's a pic of it somewhere in this forum.
As for cash falls: col 1+2 have 4 spaces.
If 3 of them in either column are coins then you are sacrificing line hits to gamble for that 4th coin
Quote: billryanCan you connect horizontal columns or is it only vertical ones?
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Vertical only.
Quote: WizardQuote: billryanCan you connect horizontal columns or is it only vertical ones?
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Vertical only.
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That seems inadvertently misleading.
The sticky coin symbols only seem to pay when a full column is collected.
The other symbols seem to act in a traditional "ways to win" line scheme, 4x4x6x6x8=4608.
Quote: DieterThat seems inadvertently misleading.
The sticky coin symbols only seem to pay when a full column is collected.
The other symbols seem to act in a traditional "ways to win" line scheme, 4x4x6x6x8=4608.
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I'm getting confused what we're talking about now.
I claim the coins only pay if a vertical column is full, on initial spins. The other symbols pay on a "ways to win" basis. Do you disagree with any of that?
I'm not a fan of the music. I wouldn't call it creepy but something close to it.
Quote: WizardQuote: DieterThat seems inadvertently misleading.
The sticky coin symbols only seem to pay when a full column is collected.
The other symbols seem to act in a traditional "ways to win" line scheme, 4x4x6x6x8=4608.
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I'm getting confused what we're talking about now.
I claim the coins only pay if a vertical column is full, on initial spins. The other symbols pay on a "ways to win" basis. Do you disagree with any of that?
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No disagreement. I was confused parsing the earlier brief reply, and realized that it could be misunderstood.
I attempted to clarify. Sorry for clarifying sub-optimally.
Quote: mcallister3200Your cash falls when you try to play it. That’s the game.
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that was funny____________________________(~:/
.
Quote: WizardOur next look at a slot that is sometimes +EV is Cash Falls.
I
The big question is at what states is the game +EV? I hope to get some good comments on that.
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Short answer is never.
This is the new AP killer style. I learned my lesson. It gives the false illusion of the popular game w/ coins on the reels that turn wild once collected. This game has so many coins and each reel is independent. Every time you get a new coin on the reel the chances to collect go back to 3. It is a continuous cycle. The AP looks at and sees the "collected coins" and thinks there is an advantage. In reality because there are so many coins and they are constant. If you play more than a couple spins you are just playing the normal return of the game like any ploppy.
I'm 23 - 3 this year. Two of my 3 losing sessions were from trying this terrible game. While "making the loops" this is the absolute last game I'll check and then only after several loops without any other plays.
If I was to play it I'd want 3 coins on reels 1 & 2 with 3 chances to collect the reel. Or only missing 1 coin on reels 3, 4 or 5 with 3 chances to collect the reel. I do 3 spins or less if I got the reel and quit.
Quote: ALGIf I was to play it I'd want 3 coins on reels 1 & 2 with 3 chances to collect the reel. Or only missing 1 coin on reels 3, 4 or 5 with 3 chances to collect the reel. I do 3 spins or less if I got the reel and quit.
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This is the second time someone mentions something along the lines of "with 3 reels".
If you have just one reel in a useful position, why does it matter if there is 1 or 3 spins left?
Isn't 3 individual machines both with 1 spin left to collect something on the last reel equivalent in value (or even better in value) than a single machine with 3 attempts left to complete the final reel?
Or is the idea that with 3 pins left, even hitting blanks on the first or second spin, there is potential secondary value from loading up other reels, potentially creating another favorable position before the original setup is done/gone?
After a lot of hand-waving math, which I won't get into, I think a decent starting strategy to this game would be to play if any reel is one coin away from being full.
This is just a starting point. If a reel has unusually low coins, but is still one away, it probably is not +EV. For average coins, it will be.
With reels 3 to 5, especially 5, a game may be positive if two consecutive positions only need coins. This is because the coins on the reels tend to be stacked.
Exceptions might be called for if jackpot coins are on the screen, especially the Major or Mega, depending on how many other coins are already on that reel.
Also keep in mind if two reels are slightly negative EV by themselves, then combined they are probably +EV.
Note that the spins remaining on coins is not mentioned.
That said, what do you think? I'm sure nobody will be in 100% agreement, but is this at least a decent starting point?
Thank you.
Quote: WizardI have studied some play of this game, tracking frequency of new coins, average coin values, and such.
After a lot of hand-waving math, which I won't get into, I think a decent starting strategy to this game would be to play if any reel is one coin away from being full.
This is just a starting point. If a reel has unusually low coins, but is still one away, it probably is not +EV. For average coins, it will be.
With reels 3 to 5, especially 5, a game may be positive if two consecutive positions only need coins. This is because the coins on the reels tend to be stacked.
Exceptions might be called for if jackpot coins are on the screen, especially the Major or Mega, depending on how many other coins are already on that reel.
Also keep in mind if two reels are slightly negative EV by themselves, then combined they are probably +EV.
Note that the spins remaining on coins is not mentioned.
That said, what do you think? I'm sure nobody will be in 100% agreement, but is this at least a decent starting point?
Thank you.
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I studied hard and put my money on it. This game is done for. After failing, I walked home 28 miles. Not joking. The only obvious positive states are obvious, such as 3 reels one coin. But that happens next to never.
$100 donated to observational knowledge.
Quote: MoscaMy observation is that the machine is rarely NOT in the state you describe. That's its hook.
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Can you expand on this? Are you referring to my statement that, in general, it's playing if any one reel is one coin away from a Fall?
Quote: WizardQuote: MoscaMy observation is that the machine is rarely NOT in the state you describe. That's its hook.
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Can you expand on this? Are you referring to my statement that, in general, it's playing if any one reel is one coin away from a Fall?
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I also gave it a look.
Imo it's a coin flip AP. Meaning half the time you will make a small profit and the other half you will just lose money.
There are other vultures that when the machine is +ev it's guaranteed you will profit depending on its state.
Quote: WizardMy new page on Cash Falls is up. I welcome all comments.
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Thanks, Wiz, for your analysis, hand-waving aside. After some trial and error last year (Oct-Dec), I had come to roughly the same conclusions as you.
Unfortunately, I didn’t start keeping records till January, and I’ve mostly been eating for free and “collecting” FP this year, so I have no accurate results to report. If and when I do, I’d be happy to share.
FWIW, a more successful AP in my town avoids this game. He tends to be more conservative than me with his plays. What he lacks in math skills, he more than makes up for in experience. So, I’ve been waiting to see what you and the forum would come up with…
Quote: camaplFWIW, a more successful AP in my town avoids this game. He tends to be more conservative than me with his plays. What he lacks in math skills, he more than makes up for in experience.
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High volatility, complex APs are better than low-volatility, simple APs, because of this exact thing. It reduces the competition. As long as you have the discipline, and bank roll to weather the ups and downs. I always find this a fun little aspect of the whole thing. In other words: careful what you wish for to hit your favorite spot, as more opportunities may just pull in more competition for a net negative change.
Quote: WizardQuote: MoscaMy observation is that the machine is rarely NOT in the state you describe. That's its hook.
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Can you expand on this? Are you referring to my statement that, in general, it's playing if any one reel is one coin away from a Fall?
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I sat down at it with reel 1 one spot away from a fall, and it hit. But then another reel was one spot away, and it didn’t hit. By the time that one was out, another reel was one spot away. It just kind of keeps going like that, and you constantly think you should keep playing.
I’m not an AP, maybe I should have taken that hit and left. But then I would have passed on the others? IDK. it’s just an observation.
Quote: MoscaQuote: WizardQuote: MoscaMy observation is that the machine is rarely NOT in the state you describe. That's its hook.
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Can you expand on this? Are you referring to my statement that, in general, it's playing if any one reel is one coin away from a Fall?
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I sat down at it with reel 1 one spot away from a fall, and it hit. But then another reel was one spot away, and it didn’t hit. By the time that one was out, another reel was one spot away. It just kind of keeps going like that, and you constantly think you should keep playing.
I’m not an AP, maybe I should have taken that hit and left. But then I would have passed on the others? IDK. it’s just an observation.
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That falls in line with my experience.
Quote: darkozThere are other vultures that when the machine is +ev it's guaranteed you will profit depending on its state.
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hm...
:o
Quote: Mukke
High volatility, complex APs are better than low-volatility, simple APs, because of this exact thing. It reduces the competition. As long as you have the discipline, and bank roll to weather the ups and downs. I always find this a fun little aspect of the whole thing. In other words: careful what you wish for to hit your favorite spot, as more opportunities may just pull in more competition for a net negative change.
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Thanks for that, Mukke.
One thing I’m learning from it all is the importance of record keeping. Between VP strategies, promo schedules and requirements, and now vulturing strategies, I’m finding my diminishing memory is sorely taxed! lol I just need to streamline the process… Time is money!
Quote: darkoz
There are other vultures that when the machine is +ev it's guaranteed you will profit depending on its state.
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My local has 25 Cash Falls games. If only I was smart enough to figure out how I would be guaranteed to profit on them.
i think he means there are other vulturable games you can play to get a better chance of profitQuote: ALGQuote: darkoz
There are other vultures that when the machine is +ev it's guaranteed you will profit depending on its state.
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My local has 25 Cash Falls games. If only I was smart enough to figure out how I would be guaranteed to profit on them.
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Quote: 100xOddsi think he means there are other vulturable games you can play to get a better chance of profitQuote: ALGQuote: darkoz
There are other vultures that when the machine is +ev it's guaranteed you will profit depending on its state.
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My local has 25 Cash Falls games. If only I was smart enough to figure out how I would be guaranteed to profit on them.
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Yes that's what I meant. Better vulturable games than cash falls.
Didn't get any of these 😞
Dog Hand
P.S. Sorry about the rotated picture.
Quote: DogHand
Didn't get any of these 😞
Dog Hand
P.S. Sorry about the rotated picture.
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It's a negative EV wrapped up in an AP package!
The newest twist is the new E-bingo machines that recent began showing up at fraternal lodges (elks, moose, etc) in Ohio from Arrow Corp. These games are basically a electronic bag of BB’s / raffle tickets. However, 4-5 games on the machines appear vulturable with coins on top of rows that turn the row wild (such as Golden E). Or coins collected for free spins.
Tried to explain to a few friends that this was all a trick to get them to keep playing by chasing bonuses. They weren’t buying it until I pointed out the obvious. The built up bonus stays the same when you change the betting denomination. When I explained how vulnerable the game would be if you could build up the bonus at $0.50 a spin and then change to $5 a spin to collect the bonus they finally kind of believed me. 😂
Good luck!
Major, minor and a $1000 coin!
It's $50 per spin but I think the risk reward is worth it.
Got 2 more coins, each time when I was on my last spin.
So 9 spins total.
Never got it. Lost $450. :(
Was the risk/reward actually worth it?
However, my experience with this game is minimal as I never really thought it was much of a play.
"Also keep in mind if two reels are slightly negative EV by themselves, then combined they are probably +EV."
What is meant by this? Are you saying if reel 1 and reel 2 only have 2 coins each, it may be +EV?
Quote: itseddieTWizard, thanks for all your work. I got a question about this:
"Also keep in mind if two reels are slightly negative EV by themselves, then combined they are probably +EV."
What is meant by this? Are you saying if reel 1 and reel 2 only have 2 coins each, it may be +EV?
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I can't speak for Wizard, but one situation other than this might be if you had a one away with terrible numbers on R1 or R2, (probably not good by itself) but then the other reel was a two away. In going for the one away, and it might depend on the amounts of the other reel, you might cause it to become good on its own by adding a coin.
These things are a ton of trial and error, but one thing that I like about Cash Falls is that recreational players don't get killed as badly in -EV situations as they do on something like Hex because the variable state turnaround is much faster.
Has anyone ever hit Free Games on this? I'm mostly interested in whether Free Games symbols can, "Spin behind," coins, as in, they still count. I tend to think that they don't, and for those of you who might say, "They never count," I retort, "Icy Wilds (but not online versions)."
Quote: Mission146Quote: itseddieTWizard, thanks for all your work. I got a question about this:
"Also keep in mind if two reels are slightly negative EV by themselves, then combined they are probably +EV."
What is meant by this? Are you saying if reel 1 and reel 2 only have 2 coins each, it may be +EV?
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I can't speak for Wizard, but one situation other than this might be if you had a one away with terrible numbers on R1 or R2, (probably not good by itself) but then the other reel was a two away. In going for the one away, and it might depend on the amounts of the other reel, you might cause it to become good on its own by adding a coin.
These things are a ton of trial and error, but one thing that I like about Cash Falls is that recreational players don't get killed as badly in -EV situations as they do on something like Hex because the variable state turnaround is much faster.
Has anyone ever hit Free Games on this? I'm mostly interested in whether Free Games symbols can, "Spin behind," coins, as in, they still count. I tend to think that they don't, and for those of you who might say, "They never count," I retort, "Icy Wilds (but not online versions)."
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Are you referring to the Bonus? I've hit the bonus twice on this machine. From what I played through the bonus symbols don't even appear behind the reels during the free games.
Basically in the bonus free games, it will award you free games based on the amount of bonus symbols that landed, during those spins, any coins that land will stay, if a reel gets all the coins, it spins a wheel that awards a multiplier on that reel. Total coin amount + any multipliers on the reels awarded at the end of the bonus.
Unfortunately I do not think you can extend the amount of spins.
+1 to the fake AP comments (unless you are in a location with a denom at like 95% RTP on a played denom).
Double Major but $50 each spin and 3 coins missing.
Major is only slightly bigger than the Minor.
Would you go for it?
Results:
Could have been worse. Game could have strung me along and gave me 2 coins before whiffing for -$350
Quote: 100xOdds
Double Major but $50 each spin and 3 coins missing.
Major is only slightly bigger than the Minor.
Would you go for it?
Results:Lost $250. Only 1 more coin appeared and whiffed all 3 chances. :(
Could have been worse. Game could have strung me along and gave me 2 coins before whiffing for -$350
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looks like a trap to me. Like i said i have made some good money on this game, but always 4-8x the bet at a time an quickly move on.
This is a picture of the end of a bonus round at $48 per spin. The Mini is 20x and the Minor is 50x same as the base game but there are no 500x Major or 10,000x Mega in the bonus round. The reason is that if these jackpots drop, you always get them. In the base game you need to convert them by filling the column.Quote: Mission146Has anyone ever hit Free Games on this? I'm mostly interested in whether Free Games symbols can, "Spin behind," coins, as in, they still count. I tend to think that they don't, and for those of you who might say, "They never count," I retort, "Icy Wilds (but not online versions)."
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Column #2 was filled on the last (10th) free spin even though it was blue after the third spin. I only got a 3x multiplier for column #2. That turned a total of x8 to x24. The x30.5 at the top is counting the totals and has only counted the first three columns so far.
I have captured a Mini in the bonus round before.