What To Do With Locked Ticket
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15 members have voted
Well, I haven't been around much due to tons and tons of increased work, and because of the crap that hopefully no longer exists on these forums =)... but I've got a fun one, related to gambling, that hopefully can spark some discussion:
So I was playing a machine (which one, irrelevant)... it was an AP play (of course). Basically some suit, by himself no security, etc, walked by behind me... kind of like a little bit of a slow walk. Then he went to an employee podium in the middle of the machines (presumably that's their login to the system to see what's going on on the machines). He then came over to me and randomly just asked me my name, to which I replied X. ...not my real name =). He was like "Okay" and walked away. Clearly something was up, so I didn't run instantly (don't let them think you're spooked) but I did leave somewhat shortly after.
I cashed my ticket out, and just kept it and got out of there. I went back on the next shift (since this was on a trip and I was leaving the next day) to cash the ticket out, and low and behold the ticket is locked. So he must have looked up the ticket number I cashed out and disabled the ticket, which means you have to take it up to the counter to cash it... and I'm a betting man so I'd bet when I go to do that there's going to be a note on the ticket that says "demand ID" or something of that effect.
So now I have this ticket, for an amount I'd not like to burn nor disclose, and I have the fun option of asking you guys if you have any kinky legal ideas for offloading it. Current options are:
1) Some places let you mail in tickets if you're out of state and happen to leave with a ticket. I'm going to try to follow up with them tomorrow to see if this is an option... Mail in the ticket, and get a check back in the mail, and of course use an address/name that's not mine.
2) Call gaming, ask them if the casino has the right to ID me for cashing out, etc, and have gaming go with me... or have gaming sign something saying "Yeah you can't demand ID for a cash out" and then go up and take the bull by the horns at the cage.
3) Try to have someone else, NON AP, cash it for me... butttt it would be putting them in a shifty situation. If it's a friend that doesn't ever go to casinos, then the worst may be they get banned from the casino? But still, I'm sure not a fun situation to put a friend in...
I'm on EST, so it's 4:20am here (heh)... so I'm going to bed, but I will respond when I get up tomorrow and throughout the day. Any good ideas here people? =)
Im gonna pm u in the morning
Quote: Romes3) Try to have someone else, NON AP, cash it for me... butttt it would be putting them in a shifty situation. If it's a friend that doesn't ever go to casinos, then the worst may be they get banned from the casino? But still, I'm sure not a fun situation to put a friend in...
Send Nathan to cash it out.
$:o)
https://kdvr.com/2017/11/15/casino-customers-prosecuted-for-playing-abandoned-slot-credits/
Quote: ChumpChangeColorado casino customers prosecuted for playing abandoned slot credits
https://kdvr.com/2017/11/15/casino-customers-prosecuted-for-playing-abandoned-slot-credits/
Number one: while interesting this article has nothing to do with what Romes was doing (i am certain although I dont know what he was doing)
Number two: the article has some upsetting errors particularly the last paragraph where it says some customers were caught doing criminal behavior such as "not providing valid ID after winning a jackpot over $1000"
Hmmmm.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyGet a drink or make some other purchase at a business the casino runs. Ask if they can take the ticket for payment and give you the balance.
I'm pretty sure this is not allowed.
I doubt Gaming will give you any paperwork. What they will usually do is say to call them if there is a problem. I would probably have four or five tickets to cash when I went to the cage, The cashier might just think it is some kind of mistake if the other tickets all cash out okay,
Good luck.
Quote: DRichThey probably already have your photo so if it is something they believe is serious, you may already be burned at that casino. I would wait a while before cashing the ticket. Go back in two weeks or so and wal around the casino and play a little. See if anyone approaches you. If no one does, then try to cash it. What jurisdiction is this in?
I doubt Gaming will give you any paperwork. What they will usually do is say to call them if there is a problem. I would probably have four or five tickets to cash when I went to the cage, The cashier might just think it is some kind of mistake if the other tickets all cash out okay,
Good luck.
Thats horrible advice.
Picture or no picture the voucher is flagged and will alert the csshier. There wont be any "I made a mistake" excuses.
What mistake anyway? "Oh, sorry that's not mine. It must have gotten mixed up with my legit vouchers?"
Thst would be even worse
Besides, its highly unlikely they have his photo. What they are trying to do is save surveillance the wasted time since this is an ID players card issue. They are trying to lure him into the trap of cashing out a flagged voucher.
Man up and cash the ticket if you did nothing illegal or against their terms of service.
If you did, then you take the loss. Part of the game.
ZCore13
The issue clearly is he was using someone else players card otherwise he could just show ID (he said this was a slot play and he gave a name that wasnt his.)
If its legit then he was using that players card with permission. Get that player to come down and show ID when cashing out the voucher.
Most likely the voucher has been flagged with instructions to simply check the ID matches the name on the players card in the machine when it was being played.
Once the names match, the cashier will pay out.
I doubt a picture will be compared from that day. But if so, I would go with this person so they see u guys together. Then if they ask why you were the one playing just say u always play together. One guy just stepped away for the moment.
Either way it shouldn't be a big deal if you do it that way
I'll PM you some further advice I can't make public.
The ticket is defintitely going to be too much for that, though it's not a monster ticket, I highly doubt I could buy a $5 drink and they'd give me > $500 and < $1200 in change =/. I like the effort though =P.Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyGet a drink or make some other purchase at a business the casino runs. Ask if they can take the ticket for payment and give you the balance. I would do it at a bar. Unless, of course, the ticket value is too much for that.
Oh ZCore, what happen to us... I've always enjoyed your posting and rarely disagreed with you, though it has happened. I did nothing illegal but that doesn't mean I want to play the casinos ILLEGAL game of "holding my money hostage" in exchange for my information. They do not have the right to demand ID from me to cash a ticket. The casino is trying to do something illegal here, not me (as is ALWAYS the case). So I'm "taking my medicine" and trying to figure out a way around their ILLEGAL actions as to not even have to deal with them.Quote: Zcore13Oh what s tangled web we weave...
Man up and cash the ticket if you did nothing illegal or against their terms of service.
If you did, then you take the loss. Part of the game.
ZCore13
Current thoughts: Couple small options to explore, but what I'm probably going to do is wait a month or two and go cash the ticket and have them call gaming if they refuse to pay. I'll probably call gaming before hand and notify them and have the guys number 100% ready or hell even walk up to the counter with gaming on the phone for them to tell them to pay me. Anything to expedite the process and immediately throw the casino off balance by showing I know my rights and that they're not going to get my ID.
I'd prefer not to =/. Are there state specific laws you're referring to possibly? It's not out west.Quote: gamerfreakCan you share what State this is in?
The phone number for Nevada Gaming Enforcement is: 702-486-2020. You should keep this in your phone.
It was not out west. I'd rather not discuss the play details (look what Axel's done to me). Was just hoping someone has had a similar issue and they had some clever way around it. I think the "Mailing in the ticket" is holding as the most clever for now then. I have had casinos that let you do that so long as it's not over like $1200, which this ticket is not... I still need to call today now to verify.Quote: DRichRomes, were you using your own card or someone elses? If someone elses did you collect freeplay? If this is in Nevada I know many of the Gaming Enforcement agents that you will likely talk to.
The phone number for Nevada Gaming Enforcement is: 702-486-2020. You should keep this in your phone.
Quote: RomesI'd prefer not to =/. Are there state specific laws you're referring to possibly? It's not out west.
Yes, PA/NJ/NY/MD in many cases have significant difference in gaming voucher laws.
If you want to PM the state I might be able to provide helpful info.
Quote: DRichIf it was PA, be very careful. They can be strict and a pain in the butt.
It is not illegsl to use another person player card in Pa as long ss you have their permission
Pretty much the same as in all states
Quote: Romes
I'd prefer not to =/. Are there state specific laws you're referring to possibly? It's not out west.
If its NY its easy.
But I doubt you would not be aware of how easy if you were in NY.
But just for the record, in NY, after 48 days, (used to be 45) the voucher can be cashed at any lotfery gaming facility even located in a different casino.
Getting around cashing locked vouchers is pretty laughable in NYS
Sent a message to Bruce. Please read via him.
Quote: DRichNew information. You didn't say that he was playing with someone elses card. If he didn't use freeplay from the card, just say someone must have left it in the machine. If he did use freeplay, suck it up and take your medicine or just abandon the ticket.
Only Ploppies suck it up and take medicine
Any AP worth his salt will explore every opportunity and most likely succeed in the long run with getting their money paid.
Casinos regularly backroom people illegally. When a lawsuit is brought against them do they just suck it up and fork over money or do they try to fight it?
I mean, who just considers money thats at stake like its a dropped candy bar (hell I might even try to clean off the candy bar if it fell the right way but thats me)
Quote: DRichIf it was PA, be very careful. They can be strict and a pain in the butt.
i almost got into a fight yesterday from a guy who claimed that he saw people get arrested at sands bethelehem for using other peoples cards...
now i know a former slot manager and he tells me otherwise...
id like to know where this information about people getting in trouble for using another persons card came from...
got any articles pertaining to someone getting arrested or into any trouble for doing what were talking about? i dont care if its in PA or somewhere else
Quote: heatmapi almost got into a fight yesterday from a guy who claimed that he saw people get arrested at sands bethelehem for using other peoples cards...
now i know a former slot manager and he tells me otherwise...
id like to know where this information about people getting in trouble for using another persons card came from...
got any articles pertaining to someone getting arrested or into any trouble for doing what were talking about? i dont care if its in PA or somewhere else
There were some people facing criminal charges a few yeard ago for using other people players cards in PA.
The information was unclear about how they were being used so people started assuming it was illegal there.
I am pretty certain the freeplay being used was withOUT permission of the cardholders hence the criminal charges.
I was caught perhaps a year later using other players cards in PA with police onsight to investigate and once I proved I had the players permission I not only was released (held for less than 10 minutes) but I was cashed out for all the vouchers I had which was a significant amount.
So I speak from personal knowledge. Its not illegal in Pa.
Quote: heatmapi almost got into a fight yesterday from a guy who claimed that he saw people get arrested at sands bethelehem for using other peoples cards...
now i know a former slot manager and he tells me otherwise...
id like to know where this information about people getting in trouble for using another persons card came from...
got any articles pertaining to someone getting arrested or into any trouble for doing what were talking about? i dont care if its in PA or somewhere else
The argument is if you use someone elses freeplay. The casino claims the freeplay belongs to them until claimed by the person who's card it belongs to. They can claim fraud and theft, the same as if someone won a prize at a casino drawing and you try to claim that prize by representing yourself as the other person.
I would be very interested if Bob Nersesian would represent someone caught playing freeplay on another persons card.
Is this phone number of an individual agent who understands Advantage play enough to realize the difference between illegal activity and "fair play".?Quote: DRichRomes, were you using your own card or someone elses? If someone elses did you collect freeplay? If this is in Nevada I know many of the Gaming Enforcement agents that you will likely talk to.
The phone number for Nevada Gaming Enforcement is: 702-486-2020. You should keep this in your phone.
If so, that's great news.
Quote: DRichThe argument is if you use someone elses freeplay. The casino claims the freeplay belongs to them until claimed by the person who's card it belongs to. They can claim fraud and theft, the same as if someone won a prize at a casino drawing and you try to claim that prize by representing yourself as the other person.
I would be very interested if Bob Nersesian would represent someone caught playing freeplay on another persons card.
Drich
That is just totally wrong.
Nice imagination though
Yes, Bob does represent people who used other peoples players cards with the permission of those players.
No, the casino cannot deny the payout becauseit came from freeplay another persons card. When one casino tried that on me do you know what I did? I called gaming which forced them to pay me.
See, the law is on my side on this issue.
The handing of a players card for me to use is no different than if you handed me your credit card with permission to use it. Am I committing credit card fraud if you gave me permission to make a purchase?
Oh wait, you probably figure it is, lol.
Good chance fake ID was being used in order to get players cards and earn free play.Quote: darkoz
I am pretty certain the freeplay being used was withOUT permission of the cardholders hence the criminal charges.
In some states I'm pretty sure it's illegal to even possess a fake ID.
How many PA casinos have you been banned from? Obviously, you don't have to answer that.
He claims he's retiring soon anytime I talk to him. It's now been years since the first time he's mentioned that.Quote: mcallister3200Speaking of Bob N, I have heard he isn’t taking on new clients anymore.
Quote: AxelWolfGood chance fake ID was being used in order to get players cards and earn free play.
In some states I'm pretty sure it's illegal to even possess a fake ID.
How many PA casinos have you been banned from? Obviously, you don't have to answer that.
2
One for the incident I described above.
One because they heard about the same incident described above. That was in absentia. They sent me a certified letter lol. I was tempted to reply their casino was too crappy for me to go to anyway which would have been the truth. Their banning me was a non-starter.
I have NOT been placed on the Pa exclusion list and this has been nearly 4 years ago so I doubt I ever will be. I committed no crime and just about everyone on the list has been caught doing some form of criminality
I guess that would depend on what happens who the person once being caught. I don't think he's going to go to bat for you if they're holding your money or nothing too crazy happens. Unless you're just willing to give up your retainer money basically for free.Quote: darkozDrich
Yes, Bob does represent people who used other peoples players cards with the permission of those players.
.
I think a lot of this stuff comes down to interpretation of the laws.
There's been many times I tried to pin him down on if something's illegal or not. He gets all riled up and claims I always do that to him wanting a clear cut and dry answer he won't/ can't give me an answer because it's just not that simple.
I don't think I asked about exclusion list. I was just asking how many stores you lost from being 86ed. Again, you don't have to answer that.Quote: darkoz2
One for the incident I described above.
One because they heard about the same incident described above. That was in absentia. They sent me a certified letter lol. I was tempted to reply their casino was too crappy for me to go to anyway which would have been the truth. Their banning me was a non-starter.
I have NOT been placed on the Pa exclusion list and this has been nearly 4 years ago so I doubt I ever will be. I committed no crime and just about everyone on the list has been caught doing some form of criminality
For cards most common laws: It's completely legal to play on someone else's AND pick up their free play so long as:
1) They are a real person.
2) They have consented to allow you to pick up the FP.
The issue here isn't legalities. I know I haven't done anything illegal. My issue here is the casino is trying to set a "trap" to ILLEGALLY obtain my information, so I'm looking to skirt the situation.
BINGO: Called the casino in question. According to the call center I can mail the ticket in and they will send a check back... =).
Good luck with that.Quote: Romes
BINGO: Called the casino in question. According to the call center I can mail the ticket in and they will send a check back... =).
Quote: Romeslol I don't want this to turn in to a guessing game. It's no where any of you are thinking, so don't worry about the state =).
For cards most common laws: It's completely legal to play on someone else's AND pick up their free play so long as:
1) They are a real person.
2) They have consented to allow you to pick up the FP.
The issue here isn't legalities. I know I haven't done anything illegal. My issue here is the casino is trying to set a "trap" to ILLEGALLY obtain my information, so I'm looking to skirt the situation.
BINGO: Called the casino in question. According to the call center I can mail the ticket in and they will send a check back... =).
I'd be cautious. What happens when the system says the ticket is locked? I'd put very little faith in something a call center operator told me about such a complicated situation.
Hope it works out.
Result. But wouldn't you need to identify yourself so they know who to make the check out to and where to send it? Doesn't that defeat the object?Quote: Romes
BINGO: Called the casino in question. According to the call center I can mail the ticket in and they will send a check back... =).
Quote: AxelWolfI don't think I asked about exclusion list. I was just asking how many stores you lost from being 86ed. Again, you don't have to answer that.
Technically none.
I just have my crew go in and handle any place I have been 86'd from.
Any issues they give me the details and I figure out what needs to happen
Why would you think I would "lose" a store simply by being 86'd?
If they try to confiscate the ticket a CALL to gaming to have gaming go tell them to issue a check would involve me not being there. Thus the same end result of getting gaming involved... but I can keep my name out of it (ticket not tied to my name) and I can talk to gaming from another state.Quote: AxelWolfGood luck with that.
Quote: RomesIf they try to confiscate the ticket a CALL to gaming to have gaming go tell them to issue a check would involve me not being there. Thus the same end result of getting gaming involved... but I can keep my name out of it (ticket not tied to my name) and I can talk to gaming from another state.
how are you going to cash a check with a fake name?
Quote: Romes
BINGO: Called the casino in question. According to the call center I can mail the ticket in and they will send a check back... =).
So they are going to receive your ticket in the mail, scan it and see it’s locked , and send out a check regardless ?
Seems to me the fact you mailed it in would just make it more likely that they think something shady happened
Simple, it's not a fake name. We have never done anything illegal and will continue not to do anything illegal. The ticket is not tied to a fake name.Quote: GWAEhow are you going to cash a check with a fake name?
Not really, in my opinion. The woman I just talked to says it happens all the time. I'm going to be mailing it from another state that is not close by, thus it's pretty obvious why it's being mailed in (it would take a plane flight to get back there). Again, in the end I'm understanding that I'll probably have to get gaming involved... but I'm trying to take every little thing I can do in order to avoid that.Quote: michael99000So they are going to receive your ticket in the mail, scan it and see it’s locked , and send out a check regardless ?
Seems to me the fact you mailed it in would just make it more likely that they think something shady happened
Perhaps a cashier person doesn't scan it. Perhaps they do and don't care since they're issuing a check to the name the ticket is tied to. While not extremely likely, these are real possibilities so I might as well free roll my options here before having to get gaming involved.
Quote: RomesSimple, it's not a fake name. We have never done anything illegal and will continue not to do anything illegal. The ticket is not tied to a fake name.
I didnt say you did, or are you saying if you gave a fake name then it would be illegal?
The only "fake" name that was given was just verbally to the suit that was "walking by" and walked away after 15 seconds of conversation. There was no ID involved, no fake ID, nothing of the sort. Simply a "who are you?" and "I'm X" and "Okay, bye" convo that's it.Quote: GWAEI didnt say you did, or are you saying if you gave a fake name then it would be illegal?
Quote: RomesThe only "fake" name that was given was just verbally to the suit that was "walking by" and walked away after 15 seconds of conversation. There was no ID involved, no fake ID, nothing of the sort. Simply a "who are you?" and "I'm X" and "Okay, bye" convo that's it.
So if you had verbally given the name that matched the players card in the machine , then the suit wouldn’t have locked your ticket ?
Quote: michael99000So if you had verbally given the name that matched the players card in the machine , then the suit wouldn’t have locked your ticket ?
unless.
1. its a womans name
or
2. The names matched but on the screen it had a picture of a handsome man and not romes. ;-)
Quote: Romes. My issue here is the casino is trying to set a "trap" to ILLEGALLY obtain my information, so I'm looking to skirt the situation.
.
If you had been wearing a sports jersey with your name on the back (or whatever name you wish to be) no one could ask you your name like that without looking foolish.
Especially if it said, "I am Joe Smith"
So, if they mail you a check, I'd assume they could just mail a letter saying you are banned. However, I could see it slipping through the cracks because different people handle it.
This probably means nothing. But I did have to leave a casino quickly due to unwanted attention once and take a ticket with me. I'm pretty sure they were going to 86 me. I came back a couple weeks later. The ticket was not in GREAT shape, as it had been in my wallet for a couple weeks. However, I was surprised the machines wouldn't take it. I wasn't really sure if the ticket was flagged or the machines were picky. But to me, it should have been accepted. It wasn't torn or faded.
I had a buddy cash it at the cage and it went through with no problems. It was for about $250.
Obviously, I told him the situation and paid him and he was cool to deal with it.
