Slots - Lawsuit
In a video poker game, cards cannot be weighted. Why can a wheel be weighted? There should be some sort of disclaimer saying that the wheel is fake.
In slot machines, can slot reels be weighted? I thought they can just make the reels as long or short as they want. I could be wrong about this.
My point is, I think wheels are pretty much fraud.
Quote: FinsRuleI believe I have a lawsuit against any slot or video poker manufacturer and casino.
Pro tip: You don't.
Quote: TomGYou'll have to cite a specific law that the casinos or slot manufacturers are not following. You won't be able to do that
I’m not so sure about that.
Quote: FinsRuleIn slot machines, can slot reels be weighted?
Yes, they can. I believe there is a law in Nevada that says the ratio of the heaviest weight to the least can be no more than 6 to 1. DRich would know better than me.
I tried telling a guy to dissuade him from lightning link by telling him they're probably only 86% and he said, "that would be great".
Quote: WizardYes, they can. I believe there is a law in Nevada that says the ratio of the heaviest weight to the least can be no more than 6 to 1. DRich would know better than me.
I wonder if there are regulations on wheels.
Quote: WizardYes, they can. I believe there is a law in Nevada that says the ratio of the heaviest weight to the least can be no more than 6 to 1. DRich would know better than me.
I believe that rule applies to the symbols right next to the least weighted (typically jackpot) symbol can't be more than 6 times as prevalent as the least weighted symbol. The law was created to avoid having the Megabuck symbol (for instance) popping up constantly, making people think it's about to hit anytime now.
Quote: FinsRuleMy point is, I think wheels are pretty much fraud.
WYSIWYG should have been the law whether simulation or real. But they f'd us over.
Quote: rsactuaryI believe that rule applies to the symbols right next to the least weighted (typically jackpot) symbol can't be more than 6 times as prevalent as the least weighted symbol. The law was created to avoid having the Megabuck symbol (for instance) popping up constantly, making people think it's about to hit anytime now.
Quote: WizardYes, they can. I believe there is a law in Nevada that says the ratio of the heaviest weight to the least can be no more than 6 to 1. DRich would know better than me.
I've read the slot machine chapter of the NV regs a few times in the last few years, but I've never read it in there. Old versions of GLI have suggested this rule, but it eventually was deleted years ago.
Quote: FinsRuleI believe I have a lawsuit against any slot or video poker manufacturer and casino.
In a video poker game, cards cannot be weighted. Why can a wheel be weighted? There should be some sort of disclaimer saying that the wheel is fake.
In slot machines, can slot reels be weighted? I thought they can just make the reels as long or short as they want. I could be wrong about this.
My point is, I think wheels are pretty much fraud.
Definitely no lawsuit. I do think there should be as disclaimer as well, but Nevada (and most other states) only cares that probabilities of events are the same if the electronic game is "representative" of a live gambling game. The slot bonus wheels don't mimic any live table game. If they do, we need to play it right away. Those bonus wheels are worth a lot! And yes, stops can be weighted, see above. Generally video slots aren't weighted though because reels could be 1000s of symbols long if they wished.
Quote: FinsRuleThere’s a big 6 wheel. That is not weighted (hopefully)
Actually I have been "weighting" a long time to win on that
Quote: WizardYes, they can. I believe there is a law in Nevada that says the ratio of the heaviest weight to the least can be no more than 6 to 1. DRich would know better than me.
I am not aware of a rule like that. It wouldn't make sense on a game like Megabucks. Back in the 90's I worked on a game called Cool Millions that had a multi million dollar progressive. We had to modify the reel code because the weights were limited to 8 bits and we needed much higher odds.
I was playing the Sky Wheel slot one time. It’s circling around and the ticker stops on the grand. So I’m just waiting for a to slowly roll over to the next slot. Half second, one second, two, it’s still there. Eventually the screen says you won 1.4M credits. So they do hit but it is frustrating not knowing how it’s weighted.
Quote: DRichI am not aware of a rule like that.
MathExtremist alluded to the 6 to 1 ratio in this post, but doesn't claim it's a law. It may be for neighboring symbols, as he suggests, as opposed to highest to lowest weighting.
Quote: WizardMathExtremist alluded to the 6 to 1 ratio in this post, but doesn't claim it's a law. It may be for neighboring symbols, as he suggests, as opposed to highest to lowest weighting.
That makes more sense since there was an action taken by Nevada Gaming in the 90's against Universal slot machine company for having way too many near misses. Basically they weighted the blanks on either side of the jackpot symbol the heaviest.
2.070 does mention that for Nevada, if a machine's advertised jackpot exceeds 100M to 1, those odds must be prominently displayed.
https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=3309
https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2919
https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=3450
See page 6, technical standard 1.100.
Quote: rsactuaryAha! I found it! the combined wheel weighting next to the top award symbol may not exceed 12:1...
https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=3450
See page 6, technical standard 1.100.
It says the combined weighting of the adjacent symbols, so you could vary from weights of 1 &11 to 6 & 6, the way I understand it.
It is a come on for rubes to dumb to count to 21 and is therefore often ignored by the casino as to its performance and dealer techniques.Quote: FinsRuleThere’s a big 6 wheel. That is not weighted (hopefully)
Quote: FinsRuleI didn’t see anything in those regs about bonus wheels. Do we think it’s anything goes for them?
yes
Quote: rsactuaryHere's another interesting one... sorry if I'm going off topic here, but it specifically states at the end of the document that video poker games may not determine replacement cards until the draw button is hit.
https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2919
Yes, that has been in effect for a lot of years (probably 10 or 15). There was concern that someone with electronic equipment would peek into the memory on the game to see what the replacement cards were before selecting their hold cards.
Quote: Scarney325I assume the state regulates that cards in video poker cannot be weighted.
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In Nevada, at least - Nevada Gaming Regulation 14.040(5):
"For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game."
As for the "12:1 rule" for slots, Technical Standard 1.100 no longer includes this.
Quote: Scarney325What states could actually enforce this law, I assume all states have it?
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you assume wrong.. just like assuming people DONT want rigged RNG... they (a normal healthy sane minded person) want it for their own selves and profit so to say it would be illegal everywhere is naive
Who catches the casino if they do it?
Quote: Scarney325So can a casino change the probability of a card like the ace of diamonds so it comes out less often than in a random card shuffle?
Who catches the casino if they do it?
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no what you are saying IMO is not possible LEGALLY meaning it would have to be illegal... and thats somewhat "impossible"
there is ways to make your average expected payout HIGHER but NOT lower lets put it that way... the way that i know that they can raise your expected average payout is that they can generate random hands in the background (you do not see it happening) and when a hand that is generated that is better than the one originally generated it will show you the bigger win rather than the original win. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN THE OTHER WAY AROUND aka generating a lower hand and showing it to you instead this is illegal specifically. This somewhat contradicts a law that says you can show a different result thats generated but i assume that it gets the pass and the okay by the gaming control board for the fact that its not against the players EV.
note - when i quote things i dont believe them lol
I assumed they could show you missing a royal by 1 card instead of 2 since the payout would still be zero. But so you think you just missed.
Quote: Scarney325So can a casino change the probability of a card like the ace of diamonds so it comes out less often than in a random card shuffle?
Who catches the casino if they do it?
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They can not. This stuff is regulated at the manufacturer level and not the casino level. There are only a few manufacturers in the U.S. that make Class III video poker games.
Quote: Scarney325Why would they raise your payout? How and why?
Quote: heatmapthe way that i know that they can raise your expected average payout is that they can generate random hands in the background (you do not see it happening) and when a hand that is generated that is better than the one originally generated it will show you the bigger win rather than the original win.
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Quote: Scarney325I assumed they could show you missing a royal by 1 card instead of 2 since the payout would still be zero. But so you think you just missed.
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Quote: heatmapvery specifically illegal as in its written down in most "fully random" jurisdictions
what you have to understand is that there was a law created specifically to stop cheating people.. this was called a secondary decision. the slot machine would evaluate the "board" or "result" chosen and would make that result into an almost winning result. this is illegal
what we have come to evolve into is that - its bad to do this when the result is meant to be deceiving - what i have found is that its legal to do this in favor of the player
you can generate a result that is better than the result of the currently chosen one ... what i cant claim... is that its done in EVERY slot machine or EVERY VP machine
what i can claim is that they have the ability to do this in TOURNAMENTS
i personally believe that they can do this in slot machines and VP though.. just my opinion... i am not a lawyer though so take my words with a grain of salt
Let’s say the VP machine creates a random draw A and second random draw B. If B improves my winnings, why and when would they give it to me? They are only required to give me the first one, A.
- if I am a certain status?
- during a slow time so I come back?
-If my losses have exceeded my theoretical losses?
- does everyone get it?
- only do it certain days?
What decision is used to give me the B result if better?
Quote: Scarney325
If B improves my winnings, why and when would they give it to me?
good question... ill tell you that ive never seen that question and i dont know how to reapond... very good question and ill be pondering that pretty much all night wtf dude... im assuming its because the rope their willing to give you is shorter than the long term plays
cant tell you for certainQuote: Scarney325
They are only required to give me the first one, A.
- if I am a certain status?
- during a slow time so I come back?
-If my losses have exceeded my theoretical losses?
- does everyone get it?
- only do it certain days?
but i cAN with this...
Quote: Scarney325
- to rig a tournament so someone they want wins?
What decision is used to give me the B result if better?
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b is always given if it is better.. this is for everyone in the tourney... i think... i dont think they care about who wins just that someone wins... its just easier that way IMO
get the word "rig" or "rigging" out of your vocabulary its not a common word within the casino industry it doesnt mean s h i t if you arent speaking in legal terms and when you come to a place like this you better be ready to talk to people like me... i can see your on the right path but you are assuming humans over x amount of years are still dumber than you... this isnt true.. they are taking all accumulated knowledge and applying it to this industry
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/38880-vp-tournament/
