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18 members have voted
Quote: DRichOne of the two major gaming companies on the strip was always asking us to make available tighter percentages because our lowest was an 86% game.
Thanks Dave -- great answer! As to this, I have a feeling I know which one you're referring to.
Quote: WizardThanks Dave -- great answer! As to this, I have a feeling I know which one you're referring to.
Can’t imagine both MGM & CZR wouldn’t both be looking for higher holds, although with the current MGM2020 initiatives, they could be the leader.
I would speculate the place that has $5 6/5 JOB.Quote: WizardThanks Dave -- great answer! As to this, I have a feeling I know which one you're referring to.
Not even the convince stores have pay-tables that bad on higher denominations.
I saw one bank of six Harrah's 5K Ainsworth progressives installed with 84.52%, 84.53%, 84.5x%Quote: mcallister3200mamat has mentioned in the past that most harrahs penny slots are 84.x% iirc.
Some games don't have any settings that low, so they might be 85-89%. Some may be set below 84%.
Personally I have not seen 99.99%+ of Harrahs' penny machines, so there's no way I would say "MOST"
...but those that I have seen have been on the low end (e.g. Harrahs 10K $ can be set from 90-94%, typically 90-92% even though 88-89% settings exist).
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At a non-Harrah's casino, I saw a penny machine set 80-81%. Scary low!
I was going to play it fun (to generate some play on non-AP machines), but decided not to after seeing the setting. Whoa...
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Another casino likes to set penny machines at 92% or 93%.
And some games don't have any settings that high, so there might be some with 88-91% settings.
Seeing a few novelty game settings downtown Nov 2017 - Feb 2018, I would NOT assume that downtown is any better than the strip.Quote: DRichIn Las Vegas it is safe to assume that any new video penny slots on the strip will be 85%-88%. Usually the locals casinos are about 2% better.Quote: WizardI've heard this comment before. The reason I set it to 90% is the Nevada Gaming Revenue Report for the 12-month period ending 1/31/19 says the win percent on 1-cent slots is 9.98%. Thus, a return of 90.02%.
One might argue that this 9.98% figure mixed in penny video poker, which is a valid point, but I think the vast majority, like 99% of penny games are reeled slots.
I would agree about the novelty titles having tight settings. Do NOT use official average settings (which include video poker, reel slots, and regular video slots).Quote: DRichOne of the two major gaming companies on the strip was always asking us to make available tighter percentages because our lowest was an 86% game. We then started creating paytables as low as 83% for them.
The newer titles have such a high turnover rate now that the casinos just seem to be gouging the customers because in a year that game will probably not be on the floor anymore. I would be absolutely shocked if you found a game like Ocean Magic at a big casino on the strip at better than 88%.
To be safe, I would guess 84-87% for an unknown strip casino penny slot. 84% for Harrahs.
If you have Vegas casino experience, you might be able to rank the strip casinos in terms of tightness/looseness.
Typical Indian casino 88-89%. Tight Indian casino 86-87%. Loose Indian casino 90-93%.
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For a game which doesn't require much money, I wouldn't care too much about the exact setting.
If I play at 115% @88%, the game will still probably still be +EV @86%.
If $10K-50K is required to play, I prefer to see the actual machine setting & do detailed analysis.
If no exact info, maybe assume I could be wrong by +/- 2%.
There are known cases where a casino has shifted a 97% to 91%, or 91% to 95%. But it's too difficult to play with that wide a range under competition.
I stay away from games which require $50K-500K.
Reel | Reel 1 | Reel 2 | Reel 3 | Reel 4 | Reel 5 |
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0 | 125% | 120% | 265% | 71% | 45% |
1 | 188% | 212% | 554% | 106% | 47% |
2 | 188% | 211% | 549% | 105% | 47% |
3 | 121% | 114% | 258% | 69% | 44% |
Overall return = 85.35%
No bubble return = 39.24%
New bubble probability per reel = 1.56%
Return from bonus = 17.38%
Just to clarify... In Reel 4, Position 3, it shows 69% return if the bubble will be there NEXT ROUND while playing. Does this mean it ADDS 69% to the overall 85.35% return? Or does this mean "in this state" the return of the game is only 69%? I think it's the latter, but I'm confusing myself... my apologies =).Quote: WizardSince everybody is telling me 90% is too high, I reconfigured my simulation to pay 85%. I also made some adjustments with the bonus. That said, here are the new expected values on the next spin in non-bubble burst mode.
Reel Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5 0 125% 120% 265% 71% 45% 1 188% 212% 554% 106% 47% 2 188% 211% 549% 105% 47% 3 121% 114% 258% 69% 44%
Overall return = 85.35%
No bubble return = 39.24%
New bubble probability per reel = 1.56%
Return from bonus = 17.38%
Quote: RomesJust to clarify... In Reel 4, Position 3, it shows 69% return if the bubble will be there NEXT ROUND while playing. Does this mean it ADDS 69% to the overall 85.35% return? Or does this mean "in this state" the return of the game is only 69%? I think it's the latter, but I'm confusing myself... my apologies =).
That means that on the NEXT spin the bubble will be in that position. The 69% is the total return, as opposed to the additional return.