Poll

No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
3 votes (18.75%)
1 vote (6.25%)
3 votes (18.75%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
6 votes (37.5%)
7 votes (43.75%)

16 members have voted

Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1184
  • Posts: 19811
March 11th, 2019 at 6:37:24 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

One of the two major gaming companies on the strip was always asking us to make available tighter percentages because our lowest was an 86% game.



Thanks Dave -- great answer! As to this, I have a feeling I know which one you're referring to.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
  • Threads: 153
  • Posts: 5096
March 11th, 2019 at 6:51:14 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks Dave -- great answer! As to this, I have a feeling I know which one you're referring to.



Can’t imagine both MGM & CZR wouldn’t both be looking for higher holds, although with the current MGM2020 initiatives, they could be the leader.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 125
  • Posts: 15809
Thanks for this post from:
kgb92
March 11th, 2019 at 10:15:12 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks Dave -- great answer! As to this, I have a feeling I know which one you're referring to.

I would speculate the place that has $5 6/5 JOB.

Not even the convince stores have pay-tables that bad on higher denominations.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 1841
March 11th, 2019 at 10:23:13 PM permalink
mamat has mentioned in the past that most harrahs penny slots are 84.x% iirc.
mamat
mamat
Joined: Jul 13, 2015
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 493
March 12th, 2019 at 6:00:28 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

mamat has mentioned in the past that most harrahs penny slots are 84.x% iirc.

I saw one bank of six Harrah's 5K Ainsworth progressives installed with 84.52%, 84.53%, 84.5x%

Some games don't have any settings that low, so they might be 85-89%. Some may be set below 84%.
Personally I have not seen 99.99%+ of Harrahs' penny machines, so there's no way I would say "MOST"
...but those that I have seen have been on the low end (e.g. Harrahs 10K $ can be set from 90-94%, typically 90-92% even though 88-89% settings exist).
---
At a non-Harrah's casino, I saw a penny machine set 80-81%. Scary low!
I was going to play it fun (to generate some play on non-AP machines), but decided not to after seeing the setting. Whoa...

---
Another casino likes to set penny machines at 92% or 93%.
And some games don't have any settings that high, so there might be some with 88-91% settings.
Last edited by: mamat on Mar 12, 2019
mamat
mamat
Joined: Jul 13, 2015
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 493
March 12th, 2019 at 6:07:38 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Wizard

I've heard this comment before. The reason I set it to 90% is the Nevada Gaming Revenue Report for the 12-month period ending 1/31/19 says the win percent on 1-cent slots is 9.98%. Thus, a return of 90.02%.

One might argue that this 9.98% figure mixed in penny video poker, which is a valid point, but I think the vast majority, like 99% of penny games are reeled slots.

In Las Vegas it is safe to assume that any new video penny slots on the strip will be 85%-88%. Usually the locals casinos are about 2% better.

Seeing a few novelty game settings downtown Nov 2017 - Feb 2018, I would NOT assume that downtown is any better than the strip.

Quote: DRich

One of the two major gaming companies on the strip was always asking us to make available tighter percentages because our lowest was an 86% game. We then started creating paytables as low as 83% for them.

The newer titles have such a high turnover rate now that the casinos just seem to be gouging the customers because in a year that game will probably not be on the floor anymore. I would be absolutely shocked if you found a game like Ocean Magic at a big casino on the strip at better than 88%.

I would agree about the novelty titles having tight settings. Do NOT use official average settings (which include video poker, reel slots, and regular video slots).

To be safe, I would guess 84-87% for an unknown strip casino penny slot. 84% for Harrahs.
If you have Vegas casino experience, you might be able to rank the strip casinos in terms of tightness/looseness.

Typical Indian casino 88-89%. Tight Indian casino 86-87%. Loose Indian casino 90-93%.

----
For a game which doesn't require much money, I wouldn't care too much about the exact setting.
If I play at 115% @88%, the game will still probably still be +EV @86%.

If $10K-50K is required to play, I prefer to see the actual machine setting & do detailed analysis.
If no exact info, maybe assume I could be wrong by +/- 2%.
There are known cases where a casino has shifted a 97% to 91%, or 91% to 95%. But it's too difficult to play with that wide a range under competition.

I stay away from games which require $50K-500K.
Last edited by: mamat on Mar 12, 2019
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1184
  • Posts: 19811
Thanks for this post from:
MaxPenkgb92
March 12th, 2019 at 6:57:04 AM permalink
Since everybody is telling me 90% is too high, I reconfigured my simulation to pay 85%. I also made some adjustments with the bonus. That said, here are the new expected values on the next spin in non-bubble burst mode.

Reel Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5
0 125% 120% 265% 71% 45%
1 188% 212% 554% 106% 47%
2 188% 211% 549% 105% 47%
3 121% 114% 258% 69% 44%


Overall return = 85.35%
No bubble return = 39.24%
New bubble probability per reel = 1.56%
Return from bonus = 17.38%
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5326
March 12th, 2019 at 9:57:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Since everybody is telling me 90% is too high, I reconfigured my simulation to pay 85%. I also made some adjustments with the bonus. That said, here are the new expected values on the next spin in non-bubble burst mode.

Reel Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5
0 125% 120% 265% 71% 45%
1 188% 212% 554% 106% 47%
2 188% 211% 549% 105% 47%
3 121% 114% 258% 69% 44%


Overall return = 85.35%
No bubble return = 39.24%
New bubble probability per reel = 1.56%
Return from bonus = 17.38%

Just to clarify... In Reel 4, Position 3, it shows 69% return if the bubble will be there NEXT ROUND while playing. Does this mean it ADDS 69% to the overall 85.35% return? Or does this mean "in this state" the return of the game is only 69%? I think it's the latter, but I'm confusing myself... my apologies =).
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1184
  • Posts: 19811
March 12th, 2019 at 10:15:00 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Just to clarify... In Reel 4, Position 3, it shows 69% return if the bubble will be there NEXT ROUND while playing. Does this mean it ADDS 69% to the overall 85.35% return? Or does this mean "in this state" the return of the game is only 69%? I think it's the latter, but I'm confusing myself... my apologies =).



That means that on the NEXT spin the bubble will be in that position. The 69% is the total return, as opposed to the additional return.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
prozema
prozema
Joined: Oct 24, 2016
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1063
March 12th, 2019 at 11:58:02 AM permalink
If a single bubble on reel 3 is ever worth 500% rtp, I'm running cold.
"A little luck never hurt any fisherman, that's all I know." - Sig Hansen

  • Jump to: