Shady Casino Practices

Greetings!

This thread is for the purpose of discussing any shady casino practices that you may have encountered in your travels. I'm putting it in the slot section, but the thread doesn't necessarily have to be relegated to slots. If you want to include any stories of outright cheating, feel free to do so. I have two (one VP and one slots) that I will share now: Both of these are from the same casino.

Ultimate X Reset: Many versions of Ultimate X, but perhaps not all of them, have a very unusual reset screen in that all hands for all games and all denominations will show a busted straight flush draw. It's pretty recognizable, especially since most of the games will all show the same hand after this happens and all of them will show it right after if nobody has played since the reset.

Anyway, I'm aware of a casino who once had Ultimate X machines (dimes were the highest denom!) who would regularly reset the machines, presumably to clear off all of the multipliers. The bank was a bank of four (two on each side) and they'd be reset a few times a week, typically sometime in the middle of the night. This may have been one employee doing it, or it may have been a directive if there were a ton of multipliers...or just something to do periodically, who knows?

Banked Free Spins Three Kings is a unique game in that it has three Progressives, but the Progressives are not money, but rather Free Spins. Three Kings' Free Spins are also capped and, even maxed out, the machine is not beatable. Three Kings, however, is not the only machine out there that banks Free Spins until a particular result is hit.

On a different machine that banks Free Spins, which may or may not be beatable in certain game states, the casino has, on multiple occasions (two that I'm aware of for sure), reset the machine when a sizable amount of spins has already been banked. This is a game that also has multiple banks and, before you accuse me of being paranoid, not only do I know someone who physically saw this happen, but it is also extremely unlikely that the game would return to its starting state organically. Only one bank can be triggered per spin, free spins cannot be retriggered and there is no way to trigger the other banks while already in Free Spins.

In other words, for this to happen organically, a player(s) would have to hit one set of Free Spins, then hit a second bank of Free Spins (of the remaining two) before the bank on the first one has increased, then finally hit the last bank of Free Spins before either of the other two banks has increased. Some people here will know what game I'm talking about and can confirm, if they choose, that this sequence of events is extremely unlikely.

Anyway, in my view, this is no different than resetting a (cash) progressive before it has been hit without moving the player-banked funds to a different machine, as appropriate. This is especially my opinion with the Free Spins thing because it is, in fact, a form of Progressive. This casino also reset a must-hit nearing positive territory once causing both progressives to reset, but that might have been an accident or some error with the machine, because it was also off for three days. The stuff I'm talking about above, the machines were not out for anywhere near that long.

Anyway, just a little something to let everyone know the casinos aren't these innocent enterprises being victimized by AP's. Also, most casinos probably don't engage in anything along these lines and this one doesn't seem to do it very often....except the Ultimate X thing...that bullcrap happened all the time.

On a blackjack table a player was betting 1k per hand ,the dealer took his bet instead of paying it.A few hands later the player leaves,dealer calls the floor over and says "I think I made a mistake and took his bet instead of paying it,The floor says "@#$% him, he's an a$%hole .So basically they cheated the player out of 2k.

A high roller was winning 900k,There was a security guard keeping onlookers away.High roller wants to tip the security guard 25k.
Casino tells high roller that security guard can't accept tips,high roller says if you don't let him keep the tip, that he will quit playing and go to the casino next door.

Casino lies to the player and says ok the guard can keep the tip.
At the end of the shift they call the guard into the office and say ,you can't keep the tip,now give it back to us.
The guard say no,the casino says if you don't you will be fired.The 25k was more than a years salary for the guard so he said That's ok I quit."

I'm with the security guard on that one! $25,000 is definitely, "Fu---gett you," money for a job like that, buys plenty of time to find a different job or maybe learn AP.

Maybe even hunt down that high-roller and ask if he wants a personal bodyguard and he'll consider the first three months paid in advance! (JK)

Quote: Hunterhill

At the end of the shift they call the guard into the office and say ,you can't keep the tip,now give it back to us.
The guard say no,the casino says if you don't you will be fired.The 25k was more than a years salary for the guard so he said That's ok I quit."

A tip on tipping: put the money in an envelope with the persons name on it. Even in places that share tips, if you do that it all goes to that person. Guard probably should have taken the firing and collected unemployment benefits

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Three Kings will stop showing extra games accumulate, but they will. Though they won't be won, it will be reset at a higher amount based on all the games banked while they were hidden. Based on what I've heard.

Quote: TomG

Three Kings will stop showing extra games accumulate, but they will. Though they won't be won, it will be reset at a higher amount based on all the games banked while they were hidden. Based on what I've heard.

We used to do that on a lot of progressives that were capped. The "backup" meter will increase from the reset amount at the same rate the base meter did before being capped. We also used to start contributing to the "backup" meter when the base meter started getting large. For example: If a progressive had a 1% meter and it started getting very big, the algorithm would start decreasing the main meter increment amount and raising the backup meter increment amount. If the meter started at $1,00,000 when it got to about $3,000,000 we might automatically only ad 0.8% to the main meter and increment the "backup" meter to 0.2%. We would continue lowering the main meter increment amount until the progressive hits.

Quote: TomG

A tip on tipping: put the money in an envelope with the persons name on it. Even in places that share tips, if you do that it all goes to that person. Guard probably should have taken the firing and collected unemployment benefits

Better thought still.

Quote:

Three Kings will stop showing extra games accumulate, but they will. Though they won't be won, it will be reset at a higher amount based on all the games banked while they were hidden. Based on what I've heard.

I know that, my point is that the ER of a spin never exceeds 100%, even with all three meters, "Maxxed Out." There may be a game otherwise semi-similar to Three Kings that the meters either do not stop at all, or do stop, but can be such in some game states as to exceed 100%.

Quote: DRich

We used to do that on a lot of progressives that were capped. The "backup" meter will increase from the reset amount at the same rate the base meter did before being capped. We also used to start contributing to the "backup" meter when the base meter started getting large. For example: If a progressive had a 1% meter and it started getting very big, the algorithm would start decreasing the main meter increment amount and raising the backup meter increment amount. If the meter started at $1,00,000 when it got to about $3,000,000 we might automatically only ad 0.8% to the main meter and increment the "backup" meter to 0.2%. We would continue lowering the main meter increment amount until the progressive hits.

I'm not in love with that, but I understand it (and recognize the reason why is not necessarily to screw the players) and would not necessarily go as far as to call it, "Shady." I'll say, "Not ideal."

Quote: DRich

We used to do that on a lot of progressives that were capped. The "backup" meter will increase from the reset amount at the same rate the base meter did before being capped. We also used to start contributing to the "backup" meter when the base meter started getting large. For example: If a progressive had a 1% meter and it started getting very big, the algorithm would start decreasing the main meter increment amount and raising the backup meter increment amount. If the meter started at $1,00,000 when it got to about $3,000,000 we might automatically only ad 0.8% to the main meter and increment the "backup" meter to 0.2%. We would continue lowering the main meter increment amount until the progressive hits.

Are there any good books written by people like you who have written slot machine programs or is it considered intellectual property somehow and can’t be written I’m a programmer by the way and would be open to any maths

Quote: Mission146

There may be a game otherwise semi-similar to Three Kings that the meters either do not stop at all, or do stop, but can be such in some game states as to exceed 100%.

They stop. At least for mega, cap is 500. I've reset one of these machines to within a couple free spins of base. Mega was low when I sat down, I hit middle and then low spins on consecutive spins about 20 spins later. Dropped 'em in, as it were.

I have noticed that if you are white and play pai gow, some dealers will try to cheat you (out of boredom, malice, jealousy, racism...who knows?) by turning pushes into losses or wins into pushes, to see if you really know the rankings of the hands.

When you point out the correction, they will invariably say they made a mistake. Funnily, no further such mistakes are repeated.

Oftentimes when I am at a new casino I will "play dumb" to see which of these dealers will try to screw the player, and violate gaming laws, simply out of racism. It happens almost every time I play. And it happens to other white people to whom I taught the game.

Quote: TomG

A tip on tipping: put the money in an envelope with the persons name on it. Even in places that share tips, if you do that it all goes to that person.

That is not true. That would be considered circumventing the toke pool and would be grounds for immediate termination at every casino I know of that has pooled tips. This also includes poker rooms that pool or ones that just pool tournament tips.


ZCore13

I do recall a dealer once telling me they could accept gift cards on direct provided they were in an envelope. Is that true at your casino? Does it depend on the particulars of the conversation? For argument’s sake, what if a player asked one of your dealers directly if he or she could give a gift card?

Quote: Mission146

I do recall a dealer once telling me they could accept gift cards on direct provided they were in an envelope. Is that true at your casino? Does it depend on the particulars of the conversation? For argument’s sake, what if a player asked one of your dealers directly if he or she could give a gift card?

At the place I worked and the others in the area where I knew the Director or Dealers, no cash, chips, gift cards, or gifts of any value could be accepted. Food that could be shared in the break room was ok. You jgenerally ust can't have dealers receiving extra "compensation" outside of the pool.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

That is not true. That would be considered circumventing the toke pool and would be grounds for immediate termination at every casino I know of that has pooled tips. This also includes poker rooms that pool or ones that just pool tournament tips.

I would be willing to bet any amount that if I put $1 (or any amount) in an envelope and wrote a dealers name on it and gave it to them or even their supervisor to give to them that I would not be terminated at any Las Vegas casino

(My previous comment may have been wrong — the information came from a ticket writer who worked at Rampart)

Quote: TomG

I would be willing to bet any amount that if I put $1 (or any amount) in an envelope and wrote a dealers name on it and gave it to them or even their supervisor to give to them that I would not be terminated at any Las Vegas casino

(My previous comment may have been wrong — the information came from a ticket writer who worked at Rampart)

Well, you wouldn't be terminated because you don't work there. The Supervisor would probably not accept it if they know it's tip money for a specific dealer, but I cant speak for every casino. My reply was meant to say some dealers are overly cautious due to tip rules. Most dealers dont want to risk $50,000 jobs plus benefits, 401k, etc, for a $20 or $100 or even $1,000 tip outside the pool.


ZCore13

I saw a casino move a bank of must hits and reset all the jackpots in the process. When I inquired I was told that

1) They aren't actually progressives (despite the word progressive appearing 7 times in the help screens)
2) They updated the software so there was no way to not reset the meters in that process
3) There was no way for them to restore the meters to their original value after the update

Quote: heatmap

Are there any good books written by people like you who have written slot machine programs or is it considered intellectual property somehow and can’t be written I’m a programmer by the way and would be open to any maths

Not that I am aware of. I know quite a bit about the subject having worked for 25 years in it, but I definitely would not know how to organize it to be even remotely interesting.

Quote: sabre

I saw a casino move a bank of must hits and reset all the jackpots in the process. When I inquired I was told that

1) They aren't actually progressives (despite the word progressive appearing 7 times in the help screens)
2) They updated the software so there was no way to not reset the meters in that process
3) There was no way for them to restore the meters to their original value after the update

That’s egregious, and if what they told you is 100% true, I would post the name of the manufacturer so we can hopefully inundate them with E-Mails about this. If I were you, I’d contact them directly and tell them the casino since the casino staff is putting it on them.

Quote: DRich

Not that I am aware of. I know quite a bit about the subject having worked for 25 years in it, but I definitely would not know how to organize it to be even remotely interesting.

Your posts organize it to be extremely interesting all the time. IMO, you’re easily one of the most important contributors to the community here.

Also, even though your work has been on the industry side, I’ve never found you to be anything but fair and impartial in your stated opinions on these matters.

Quote: Mission146

That’s egregious, and if what they told you is 100% true, I would post the name of the manufacturer so we can hopefully inundate them with E-Mails about this. If I were you, I’d contact them directly and tell them the casino since the casino staff is putting it on them.

I suppose very technically, those aren't progressives. the jackpot amount is a set number that the meter ascends toward.

When casinos are going to shut down in NV they are supposed to give out ALL the progressive money players have funded. They never account for all the small progressive meters. In some situations it adds up to thousands of dollars. Oh well, it is what it is.

Quote: AxelWolf

When casinos are going to shut down in NV they are supposed to give out ALL the progressive money players have funded. They never account for all the small progressive meters. In some situations it adds up to thousands of dollars. Oh well, it is what it is.

What do they do with that money ?

Buy a golden parachute for the CEO.

Quote: michael99000

What do they do with that money ?

I recall one did random drawings for cash prizes to those in attendance on the last day.

I've always thought 6/5 being a thing in the first place was shady. Obviously there's some bias here though. When 6/5 is how a table operates and it isn't clearly marked at all times like on the felt, a sign or an electronic message that does not leave the screen, that really rustles my jimmies.

Additionally, using the phrasing that a wager pays 2 for 1 vs 2 to 1. I've seen both players and casino personnel become confused by this and think it's a completely unnecessary semantic trap.

Quote: Mission146

I do recall a dealer once telling me they could accept gift cards on direct provided they were in an envelope. Is that true at your casino? Does it depend on the particulars of the conversation? For argument’s sake, what if a player asked one of your dealers directly if he or she could give a gift card?

At my property, if they can eat it, drink it, smoke it, wear it, or drive it, they can accept it. Everything else goes into the pool.