My first post here.
The setting
I play slots at two different casinos, both of which are the only within a 30 minutes distance, the other two that are would take that 30 minute drive are smaller with one being owned by the same people that own one of the casinos in town. These are the casinos:
Apache Nation casino
Comanche nation casino
They are both owned by native American tribes and are on the outskirts of the city. Their selection in slots is composed of lots of video progressive slots with the multiline bets, buffalo for example. They have a large selection of class II machines made by VGT, lucky duck, Mr. Money bags, etc. I believe the cheapest game you can play that pays out anything is the 25 cents VGT games, although if you can get better luck on one of the multiline slots with a single penny bet and 25 lines, I'm not sure. This far, I don't have enough experience under my belt. The most expensive machine is more than likely the 25$ class II slots, which you can bet X3. They also have numerous other progressive games like the walking dead, Powerball, Willy Wonka chocolate factory, sharknado for example.
My journey thusfar
My first time at the casino, two months ago I got obliterated, I didn't know what a bankroll was so I made very careless bets, playing 5-10$ games with 100$. I lost it all, and I lost it all quick. From there, I choose to stop at the casino about 2 times a week for a few weeks bringing only 20$ and not having any luck at all playing the 25 cents machines, I would hit here and there but my cash would be taken up quickly. I started to become frustrated with my new found love for slots and used Google to learn a few things. On three separate occasions past that point I brought 200$ and won to a point where a person with any sense or half a brain would stop playing, once I got up to 590$ getting bonus rounds on these machines that I don't recall the name of, but one was based on pandas and the other a would. The second time I got up to 280 and the third 500. One hit was 260$ from a 2$ max bet on this scatter slot with multilines that had pictures of farm related stuff, I had the misconceptions that hit wasn't big enough haha. Either way, it's nothing to brag about and to bring the story short, I doubled my bankroll and kept going and going until I lost it all. I get this weird focus that I can't break that says I need to win bigger.
How I play
Basically, I split 200$ into 10 sessions of 20, these sessions can be used on the same machine back to back if I choose, but the point is to cash out if I hit 15 dollars and it converts it into a ticket. If I go positive by 5 or more, I also cash out. After the first cycle and I exchange all my tickets i take all the ones and fives and put them in a keep pile and then keep playing the 20s, repeat. This is done until either A. My bank hits 100$ or B. I score a big hit. One of my biggest problem is that I am not following rule B, I would get into this mind set of “Oh I now have 260 dollars more to add to my bank so I can actually hit something bigger”.
what I learned/know
I can't go into the casino with 20$ and expect much to happen, but I can expect something to happen because it is random, but my chances are much lower with less spins.
Sticking to a strict bankroll, and strict coin denomination seems to be the safest option, but I find it tempting to bet much higher once I establish winnings, so deviation from my rules has been destructive.
I never win anything on the big/fancy machines that are progressives because I try to play them with a low roller bankroll and I am not that lucky. I've thrown in random single max bets on progressives with my winnings, just to see what happens.
Obviously percentage wise, getting 200 to turn into 590 is fantastic, which I guess my idea of a true win was one of grand fantasy, because I would see people hit a 4k jackpot and think what I'm winning isn't enough. I learned when my limits should be.
Time of day doesn't seem to matter much with my winnings, I've gone at random times and don't see much different results.
Oklahoma does not have a law that casinos have to publicly present information on their payout percentages.
Class II slots are just bingo meant to look like slots???…. Mind blown. (Me one month ago).
Conclusion
I'm looking for knowledge, tips, tricks, anything that will give me as much of an advantage as possible. I was considering getting into progressive slots, saving some money up for a larger bankroll and then going back. 200$ bankroll means lower bets, lower wins, and my craving for a big win goes up, which is what I seem to desire most, second to enjoying playing the games. Do you think I am at a disadvantage playing at native American owned casinos? I feel that I am, but I would like to be proven wrong. I've learned from my mistakes, I went to the casino last night and lost 50 of a 100$ bankroll playing quarter slots and left. I'm looking to improve any way I can.
Everyone is going to attack you. I'm sorry.
EDIT - I just saw that yesterday was my 8 year anniversary on this forum. If I posted once a day, I'd have 2922 posts. I think that's a good goal.
Yes, you are at a disadvantage at Native American casinos when you play slots. That's why they offer them to you!
This site has a bunch of members that are not casual gamblers, they are called APs (Advantage Professionals). They may, through experience, hard work, etc.. find examples of a time and place they may have an advantage on a given slot machine, but likely you as a casual gambler will always be playing against a foe that is hard to beat.
Welcome to the forum....
If you're going to get serious about gaming, I would personally just save up the money you would spend in an Oklahoma casino and just take a trip to Vegas or somewhere else that has much better rules and options. That's basically what I do.
I think slots are fun sometimes, but only for very low stakes. If you want your bankroll to last a little longer, learn some other games like blackjack, video poker, or baccarat.
Some claim there are ways to achieve advantage play with slots: google it.
Do not gamble with money you cannot afford to lose, as it is a near certainty that over time you will lose it; keep accurate records of your wins and losses (both for the IRS and so you don't B.S. yourself about how well you are doing), and if you ever hit a really big jackpot, quit.
It was once claimed that slots are as addictive as crack cocaine; to put a more modern spin on it, I'd be inclined to now describe them as "the opioids of the people," to butcher a phrase from Marx (Karl, not Groucho).
You won't win anything playing random slots in an Indian reservation casino. The only casino game you might have a slight chance at winning is poker, and then only after you've learned how to play and how to be patient. If you do play poker, you still have a chance at hitting a big jackpot... right now here in Detroit the bad beat jackpot is over $1,025,000!
It sounds like your just starting to play, and so, I STRONGLY suggest that you take up another hobby to spend your lifetime... try playing disc golf or something like that where you can get some exercise and sun. It's gonna be a long and miserable life hanging around smokey casinos... they make you feel welcome and they treat you like family, but in fact they're taking advantage of your ignorance of math and statistics. If you believe there is a way to mathematically swing the odds in your favor, then you're exactly the kind of customer they want... a big, dumb chump. Your best casino bet is not to make it; Vegas was not built upon winners.
If you have friends that take advantage of you, do you keep hanging out with them? If so, then you should look up the definition of insanity... hopping that things will change even though you're doing the same thing.
When you graduate to more complicated games like craps, then you might think you're being really smart playing the various bets and knowing how all the odds work to maximize your payouts. Again, this will make you feel as if you're in an exclusive club for knowledgeable players, but again, this is a just another way to take your money. Be really smart; if you really love gambling, then maybe you should consider a career on the other side of the tables in the gaming business. You should hear what the craps dealers really think about the customers behind closed doors... they're all chumps and losers, ha-ha-ha.
Watching the wheels spin and the digits flash is what you have become addicted to... that anticipation as the last spinner clicks into position... your heart races and you feel alive. But I think you might actually have some mental issues with weakness of control, the way you're describing your new found addiction. If you play disc golf or even if you bowl or play darts, you WILL get that exact same feeling of anticipated excitement when you hit an ace, bowl a 300, or throw a bull's eye, but these will be actually satisfying... because you really accomplished something. How can you feel the same when a randomized machine finally decides to pay a jackpot? Can you see the difference?
The only real good luck is the luck that you make for yourself. If you believe in magic and you think it is your destiny to win from the casinos over the long-term, then you need to rethink what your life is about. You might hit a big jackpot but more likely you'll just be another loser.
Marty
Quote: DiamondogI play slots at two different casinos, both of which are the only within a 30 minutes distance, the other two that are would take that 30 minute drive are smaller with one being owned by the same people that own one of the casinos in town.
No mention of the Kiowa tribe, but am I right in assuming that you live closer to Wichita Falls (or Devol) than Lawton?
Quote: DiamondogThank you for the heads up, I probably would attack me as well. I made some laughable moves, I let my emotions get in the way of the game, altough the money lost was apart of my 300 a pay check entertainment expenses, used for buying games, going to moves, drinking, etc. Probably would have been better off just handing the money to someone who needs it. I was a jackass. Just hope people are willing to see I'm acknowledging the mistakes and moving on from it. Any time I deviated from my plans I screwed up, so that is the number one fix. Secondly i'm looking to see if there are any better plans. People are pretty cut-throat to new nurses, so I'm used to negativity.
Welcome to WOV! :D Don't beat yourself up for losing money MEANT for FUN! It wasn't NEEDED money you lost, so take comforting solace in that alone. I can't count how many times I have heard stuff like,"I gambled and lost my rent/electricity money! I'm screwed this month!" At least you didn't do THAT. :D
That has lead to bad haircuts and ass kickings.
Being homeless for a little while never hurt anyone.Quote: NathanGambling haircut money is BETTER than gambling the rent and electricity money away!
Emotional scars can last forever.
Walking around after the age of 21 with a bad haircut and getting your ass kicked by your mommy might leave some everlasting emotional problems.
And the kitchen stove. I've known so many gamblers if they hit a few grand, the stove gets replaced.Quote: AxelWolfEVEN WORST.... some people gamble their haircut money away.
That has lead to bad haircuts and ass kickings.
My oven has been broken about 2 years. I just don't need to spend the $200 having it fixed. I have a tiny convection oven big enough to cook a 12"pizza. It's great, no bending over, no big oven to wait preheating. Besides that, a pressure cooker and rotisserie oven. I really only need an oven to cook a 20 pound turkey once year so I don't. If the stove range top broke some how, I'd replace the whole thing. That I need.
Quote: onenickelmiracleAnd the kitchen stove. I've known so many gamblers if they hit a few grand, the stove gets replaced.
My oven has been broken about 2 years. I just don't need to spend the $200 having it fixed. I have a tiny convection oven big enough to cook a 12"pizza. It's great, no bending over, no big oven to wait preheating. Besides that, a pressure cooker and rotisserie oven. I really only need an oven to cook a 20 pound turkey once year so I don't. If the stove range top broke some how, I'd replace the whole thing. That I need.
Sidebar . Fwiw, a lot of people get rid of perfectly good or lightly used ovens, dishwashers, and laundry machines when upgrading or renovating a kitchen. I've had great luck buying used ones from secondhand appliance guys in the area. Basic dryer, $50. Dishwasher, $65. The dryer worked for 8 years, the dishwasher works great 5 years later. They had ovens for $100 or less, but I haven't needed one. Refrigerator I'm more wary about, so can't speak to that.
Quote: onenickelmiracleAnd the kitchen stove. I've known so many gamblers if they hit a few grand, the stove gets replaced.
My oven has been broken about 2 years. I just don't need to spend the $200 having it fixed. I have a tiny convection oven big enough to cook a 12"pizza. It's great, .
That's what I did. My oven blew out and
I got a $60 convection over big enough
to cook a chicken in or bake cookies or
tater tots or a pizza. It's great, I have it
in my office where I can sit and keep an
eye on whats inside. Way better than
that huge old thing that used a ton
of gas and took forever to heat up.
Plus it makes my office smell great,
lol.
Quote: AxelWolfBeing homeless for a little while never hurt anyone.
Emotional scars can last forever.
Walking around after the age of 21 with a bad haircut and getting your ass kicked by your mommy might leave some everlasting emotional problems.
I don't know about you but I'd rather have messed up looking hair and have a roof over my head and electricity.
Quote: NathanI don't know about you but I'd rather have messed up looking hair and have a roof over my head and electricity.
Ok nathan aka Kentry aka troll
Quote: FcukyounathanOk nathan aka Kentry aka troll
I am not Kentry. But you and Wizard Of Nothing seem like you would make GREAT friends.
Quote: FcukyounathanOk nathan aka Kentry aka troll
Damn, that's straight savage.
Glass houses. NVM WON, that's a separate issue.Quote: Nathan
I have no doubt you have pretended to be a dude, and have you made arrangements to meet with other members under faults pretenses of being a dude. You lead people into believing you were a dude (that's sick and scummy in my book).
I have no doubt you have had multiple accounts on this forum.
There are just so many types of gamblers and people, with common backgrounds, sometimes they all seem the same, but it doesn't mean they're the same people.
I have a theory who Kentry really was, and if so, it can't be Nathan if Nathan is Nathan.
Quote: AxelWolfGlass houses. NVM WON, that's a separate issue.
I have no doubt you have pretended to be a dude, and have you made arrangements to meet with other members under faults pretenses of being a dude. You lead people into believing you were a dude (that's sick and scummy in my book).
I have no doubt you have had multiple accounts on this forum.
I have not had multiple accounts on here! And the trying to meet WON in real life totally backfired big time on me. I was trying to give WON a surprise, and it turned out bad for me.
Quote: NathanI have not had multiple accounts on here! And the trying to meet WON in real life totally backfired big time on me. I was trying to give WON a surprise, and it turned out bad for me.
Word.
Quote: DiamondogI would like to start by first introducing myself, my name is Zeke; I started playing slots about two months ago. Since my first spin, I was hooked, I love the game, the atmosphere, the rush of getting a decent hit. I joined this forum to have people to talk to about this and hopefully pick up some pointers, I apologise for such a wall of text but I believe all the information that I'm about to explain is pertinent, I'll divide it in sections to make reading easier.
The setting
I play slots at two different casinos, both of which are the only within a 30 minutes distance, the other two that are would take that 30 minute drive are smaller with one being owned by the same people that own one of the casinos in town. These are the casinos:
Apache Nation casino
Comanche nation casino
They are both owned by native American tribes and are on the outskirts of the city. Their selection in slots is composed of lots of video progressive slots with the multiline bets, buffalo for example. They have a large selection of class II machines made by VGT, lucky duck, Mr. Money bags, etc. I believe the cheapest game you can play that pays out anything is the 25 cents VGT games, although if you can get better luck on one of the multiline slots with a single penny bet and 25 lines, I'm not sure. This far, I don't have enough experience under my belt. The most expensive machine is more than likely the 25$ class II slots, which you can bet X3. They also have numerous other progressive games like the walking dead, Powerball, Willy Wonka chocolate factory, sharknado for example.
My journey thusfar
My first time at the casino, two months ago I got obliterated, I didn't know what a bankroll was so I made very careless bets, playing 5-10$ games with 100$. I lost it all, and I lost it all quick. From there, I choose to stop at the casino about 2 times a week for a few weeks bringing only 20$ and not having any luck at all playing the 25 cents machines, I would hit here and there but my cash would be taken up quickly. I started to become frustrated with my new found love for slots and used Google to learn a few things. On three separate occasions past that point I brought 200$ and won to a point where a person with any sense or half a brain would stop playing, once I got up to 590$ getting bonus rounds on these machines that I don't recall the name of, but one was based on pandas and the other a would. The second time I got up to 280 and the third 500. One hit was 260$ from a 2$ max bet on this scatter slot with multilines that had pictures of farm related stuff, I had the misconceptions that hit wasn't big enough haha. Either way, it's nothing to brag about and to bring the story short, I doubled my bankroll and kept going and going until I lost it all. I get this weird focus that I can't break that says I need to win bigger.
How I play
Basically, I split 200$ into 10 sessions of 20, these sessions can be used on the same machine back to back if I choose, but the point is to cash out if I hit 15 dollars and it converts it into a ticket. If I go positive by 5 or more, I also cash out. After the first cycle and I exchange all my tickets i take all the ones and fives and put them in a keep pile and then keep playing the 20s, repeat. This is done until either A. My bank hits 100$ or B. I score a big hit. One of my biggest problem is that I am not following rule B, I would get into this mind set of “Oh I now have 260 dollars more to add to my bank so I can actually hit something bigger”.
what I learned/know
I can't go into the casino with 20$ and expect much to happen, but I can expect something to happen because it is random, but my chances are much lower with less spins.
Sticking to a strict bankroll, and strict coin denomination seems to be the safest option, but I find it tempting to bet much higher once I establish winnings, so deviation from my rules has been destructive.
I never win anything on the big/fancy machines that are progressives because I try to play them with a low roller bankroll and I am not that lucky. I've thrown in random single max bets on progressives with my winnings, just to see what happens.
Obviously percentage wise, getting 200 to turn into 590 is fantastic, which I guess my idea of a true win was one of grand fantasy, because I would see people hit a 4k jackpot and think what I'm winning isn't enough. I learned when my limits should be.
Time of day doesn't seem to matter much with my winnings, I've gone at random times and don't see much different results.
Oklahoma does not have a law that casinos have to publicly present information on their payout percentages.
Class II slots are just bingo meant to look like slots???…. Mind blown. (Me one month ago).
Technically it's a bingo game, but the vast majority of prizes awarded are consolation prizes, not the game-ending prize (like in live bingo). Thanks to the Wizard for answering that question of mine (about how Class II slots work) in another thread. So it's fine to play them; they're simply slot machines.
When I used to live in Oklahoma, I lived 6 miles away from the local casino, which had nothing but slot machines. They had a promotion that on Sunday morning and Monday morning, if you wager $25, you get $5 free play. Since the house edge on slot machines is about 10%, that gives you a statistical advantage (if you stop at $25, which most people don't if they're winning). The downside is that the amount of money you can play with at that advantage is not very much. But I would go Sunday and Morning morning every week to do just that.
Quote:Conclusion
I'm looking for knowledge, tips, tricks, anything that will give me as much of an advantage as possible. I was considering getting into progressive slots, saving some money up for a larger bankroll and then going back. 200$ bankroll means lower bets, lower wins, and my craving for a big win goes up, which is what I seem to desire most, second to enjoying playing the games. Do you think I am at a disadvantage playing at native American owned casinos? I feel that I am, but I would like to be proven wrong. I've learned from my mistakes, I went to the casino last night and lost 50 of a 100$ bankroll playing quarter slots and left. I'm looking to improve any way I can.
What you have to do is decide in advance (i.e. before leaving home) what your bankroll is. Do not exceed it. Do not visit the ATM. You also have to decide in advance at what point you will cash out. Typically I like either 25% up, 50% up, or double. The problem with not having a stop number in place BEFORE you walk in is that if you're lucky and triple your money, you keep going. Most of the time you'll give back some of the winnings. Sometimes you'll win more, but on average, you will win less. Keep the winnings and use it to fund your bankroll the next time you go.
Quote: Diamondog
How I play
Basically, I split 200$ into 10 sessions of 20, these sessions can be used on the same machine back to back if I choose, but the point is to cash out if I hit 15 dollars and it converts it into a ticket. If I go positive by 5 or more, I also cash out. After the first cycle and I exchange all my tickets i take all the ones and fives and put them in a keep pile and then keep playing the 20s, repeat. This is done until either A. My bank hits 100$ or B. I score a big hit. One of my biggest problem is that I am not following rule B, I would get into this mind set of “Oh I now have 260 dollars more to add to my bank so I can actually hit something bigger”.
what I learned/know
I can't go into the casino with 20$ and expect much to happen, but I can expect something to happen because it is random, but my chances are much lower with less spins.
This is sort of true. Your accumulated chances of a weird event happening (like a jackpot, bonus round) go up with each spin, but you can still expect to win between 0.85-0.95 cents for every bet you take. Each spin's odds of a jackpot or something are of course, independent -- you can't be "due" for a jackpot just because you spun the slots a bunch of times.
With numbers: after 1,000 spins, you will probably have lost about $100.00 (1000 * 10 cents), even if you won some jackpots along the way. After 1,000,000 spins, you will almost certainly be ~$100,000.00 behind, but since the odds of a jackpot are way bigger than one in a million, you will probably have won at least one jackpot by that point. If your goal is to play until something interesting happens, bring lots of quarters, but keep in mind that your expected losses are the same.
With a loose machine, your losses-before jackpot will obviously be reduced. If a jackpot takes on average 1,000 spins to reach, your losses on an 85% machine will be $150 while your losses on a 95% machine will be $50 before reaching one. A study I read said that experienced gamblers can often identify loose machines within ~50 spins, but I think this is dubious, and even small differences in payout percentage have very large effects on your losses.
If you follow your rules, you will lose at most $50/mo on slot sessions. Since you've divided your money into little blocks, and since flukes at the beginning of a gambling session are more likely to put you over your original bankroll, you'll probably have more fun because you'll feel like you're "up." But make no mistake -- the expected value of your winnings is the same. (That is, every time you put $1 into a slot machine, you'll average out to getting $0.85-$0.95 back out, and this trend is going to be obvious over the long run of tens of thousands of spins.)
Quote:
Sticking to a strict bankroll, and strict coin denomination seems to be the safest option, but I find it tempting to bet much higher once I establish winnings, so deviation from my rules has been destructive.
I never win anything on the big/fancy machines that are progressives because I try to play them with a low roller bankroll and I am not that lucky. I've thrown in random single max bets on progressives with my winnings, just to see what happens.
I don't really know much about progressives. If you bet higher after a win, then you have high odds of losing a small amount of money and low odds of winning a large amount of money. It's basically a reverse Martingale. (you can find info about why a martingale doesn't work on the Wizard's main website, wizardofodds) These aren't real numbers, but from increasing your bet after a win, you might expect to get $9 back 10% of the time and lose $1 90% of the time after a round of gambles.
This is neither good or bad for your overall winnings, but if winning big is fun for you, and losing small doesn't annoy you, you should keep doing this. Many people feel attached to the winnings they're throwing back into the mill though, so that's no fun.
Of course, if you bet $10 on a slots-like game, you'll get $8.50-$9.50 back, effectively blowing your bankroll at 10x the rate of betting $1. Betting bigger will eat your bankroll faster.
Quote:
Obviously percentage wise, getting 200 to turn into 590 is fantastic, which I guess my idea of a true win was one of grand fantasy, because I would see people hit a 4k jackpot and think what I'm winning isn't enough. I learned when my limits should be.
Just remember you have no control over how much you win. If you put $1 into slots, in the long run that dollar will always turn into $0.85-0.95. If you see someone make $4,000 and stand on it then great, they don't lose any more money. But if they start putting money back into the machine after $4k, they'll lose it just as fast as you would putting the same money in. Waiting a week and pretending the money they put in next time is part of another "session" doesn't mean their expected value changes.
Some gamblers get superstitious about being "ungrateful" for wins or "greedy," but gambling machines don't know if you're being ungrateful or greedy. That stuff does play into poker, where there are decisions for you to make and you can make them wrong, but there are no real decisions in slots so your emotions don't matter.
Quote:
Conclusion
I'm looking for knowledge, tips, tricks, anything that will give me as much of an advantage as possible. I was considering getting into progressive slots, saving some money up for a larger bankroll and then going back. 200$ bankroll means lower bets, lower wins, and my craving for a big win goes up, which is what I seem to desire most, second to enjoying playing the games. Do you think I am at a disadvantage playing at native American owned casinos? I feel that I am, but I would like to be proven wrong. I've learned from my mistakes, I went to the casino last night and lost 50 of a 100$ bankroll playing quarter slots and left. I'm looking to improve any way I can.
I don't think you can make money playing slots. If you want to lose your money as slowly as possible, play cheap slot machines and never play more than one line.
I noticed that you said you lost $50 last night playing quarter slots. I don't have any moral problem with that, but that doesn't sound like the system you described. You should figure out how much you can afford to lose and try to keep your losses below that. Under the first system you described, you would keep your losses under $50. (and even lower if a session 'wins' and you cash out) But it sounds like your current play habits mean you will lose more than $50 a month.
Good luck, have fun!
Quote: GWAEWhat the hell is going on here?
Oh! For the benefit of readers:
- Original poster has just started playing slots.
- Original poster has a betting system which I think could make slots more enjoyable, but I don't think can make you money
- Original poster is wondering if they can make money by playing slots. They can't, because you can't make money off slots.
- Original poster appears to have some problems managing money when they gamble.
I think that covers most of the important stuff in the original poster's posts? I hope I didn't miss something.
EDIT: Oh, and there was also some business about creepy ghost posters, which I kinda scrolled over because I don't know anything about the spirits and spooks involved.
