Bally's V32 Roulette Slot...

In my area I recently noticed some Bally's V32 Roulette Slot machines. It is a large stand up slot cabinet with a touch screen for placing bets. I cannot seem to post the link to the page at Scientific Gaming's website, but if you Google Bally V32 Roulette you can find many pictures of this machine.

I tried playing Bally's Roulette Slot and it seems OK. I am thinking it might be a better way to earn comp points/dollars than traditional slots. I am wondering if these machines operate like real roulette, with the obvious exception that the winning number is selected by the RNG, such that you could expect each number to have an equal chance of being selected regardless of what numbers the player bets.

Or is this more like a slot machine where it can be set to have different payback percentages?

I seem to recall hearing that machines that emulate real world games by using a virtual deck of cards have to be programmed to operate fairly in so much as the deck is randomly "shuffled" and each card has an equal chance of appearing in any given position, at least to be approved for use in Nevada. For example, video poker machines should be dealing out the virtual cards at random. Does anyone know if this rule would apply to this kind of roulette slot machine?

I was able to find out that some casinos adjust the paytable to increase the house edge so that a win on a straight up number will pay as little as 32 to 1. This would seem to indicate that the numbers are chosen randomly and in order to adjust the house advantage they simply reduce the payouts on winning bets. But this would not increase the house edge on outside bets like 1-18/19-36, Black/Red or Even/Odd.

If anyone can offer any info on how these machines work or the regulations that dictate how games that emulate real world casino games must operate I'd really appreciate it.

Wheelhed.

Here's what I do know:

In Nevada, the wheel has to operate the way a real wheel would be expected to operate - that is, every number has an equal chance of coming up on each spin.

In California, pretty much every tribal casino that opened after 2010 is not allowed to have roulette in any form - not even electronic roulette. (If I had to guess, I would say that was put in because the state didn't want casinos to start using the kind of electronic roulette that has a "virtual croupier.") Note that electronic dice games, like craps or sic bo, are allowed - just not electronic roulette.

Can't say anything towards the rng programs but i have noticed at a casual glance around vegas strip that the payouts are altered depending where you are playing, and even noticed the Chip Value can be limited to raise the minimums to $1 at later hours and day of week (ie higher Friday & Sat) away from 0.25 and 0.50 bets. I guess the payouts are altered just to be greedy and catch people unaware as well as a "tax" for playing low stakes.
I have found a bank of 4 Bally machines at Fallsview, Canada at 35:1, American style 00. Fun to play at low minimums. I think the machine tops out at 90 units per spin.

Thank you ThatDonGuy and HornHighYo11,

I appreciate the info.

I recall when I was last in California there were a few casinos that had made a roulette type game but instead of a wheel they used a special deck of cards, one card for each number on the wheel. I think there was a version for craps too?

My main concern is that if these machines are like slot machines where they payback percentage can be altered then the house edge could be a lot bigger than the 5.26% you would expect at 00 roulette.

It seems to me like they are fair in the sense that each number has an equal chance of appearing. I was once told that part of the regulations in Nevada say that companies that sell machines to Nevada casinos are not allowed to make any type of "export version" that does not conform to the Nevada regulations. It was explained to me that this was to ensure they didn't sell rigged versions of their machines in other jurisdictions that could somehow make their way back to a Nevada casino. No major slot vendor would want to risk not being able to sell to Nevada casinos, so they would not make a rigged version to sell in other markets even if the regulations there did not prohibit such things. I have not been able to verify if this is true, but it came from a trusted person who is very knowledgeable in this area.

Wheelhed.

Quite a few casinos disable comps earning from these machines to prevent players from racking up huge comps betting black and red all day without supervision

Sands pa and Parx casino in Pennsylvania as well as some ac casinos are definitely on the list

So that is your first major concern

Also should point out that quite a few casinos do HE balancing with their comps

For example playing single 0 roulette would take nearly twice as much action as double 0 to generatr the same comps. Over time you would not be saving money doing it this way if this is the case

Quote: wheelhed

I recall when I was last in California there were a few casinos that had made a roulette type game but instead of a wheel they used a special deck of cards, one card for each number on the wheel. I think there was a version for craps too?

Correct - actual roulette wheels, and craps games where you use just the dice, are illegal in California. They get around this by turning them into card games. Note that "card roulette" is illegal in the casinos where electronic roulette is illegal. Also, if the craps game uses actual dice to determine which cards are used to determine the number, those are illegal in the newer casinos as well (the rule is, "no roulette, period, and no games that use 'physical' dice in any form"; the dice rule might be there to prevent a casino from installing something like bubble (or, as I like to call it, Pop-O-Matic) craps).

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Correct - actual roulette wheels, and craps games where you use just the dice, are illegal in California. They get around this by turning them into card games. Note that "card roulette" is illegal in the casinos where electronic roulette is illegal. Also, if the craps game uses actual dice to determine which cards are used to determine the number, those are illegal in the newer casinos as well (the rule is, "no roulette, period, and no games that use 'physical' dice in any form"; the dice rule might be there to prevent a casino from installing something like bubble (or, as I like to call it, Pop-O-Matic) craps).

California craps can use physical dice (I've played with them). The dice are thrown to select the red or blue card, which is turned over to show a picture of "two dice".

https://bloggingcircle.wordpress.com/2016/06/30/no-dice-for-california-indian-casinos/

Essentially, California forbids games where a ball or dice ALONE determines the outcome.

California Roulette varies from casino to casino, but the idea remains consistent. Players wager bets on a typical roulette layout, but the ultimate winning pick is based on a card numbered and colored identical to that of a roulette wheel. Some casinos have a spinning card wheel that uses a flapper to stop on the winning card. Others casinos draw three random cards and place them face-down on three regions on the table labeled “1-12”, “13-24”, and “25-36”; representative of the range of numbers. A roulette wheel is spun, and the number range that the ball lands in determines which card is flipped over to reveal the winning card.

California Craps sidesteps the dice “chance” prohibition by using a combination of dice and playing cards, or cards alone. Again, the variations differ from casino to casino, but the essential idea is that cards are representative of the winning “dice” numbers, thus making it a house-banked card game.

The California Division of Gambling Control has released Tribal Casino Advisory bulletins in favor of allowing California Roulette and diceless forms of California Craps, but has explicitly called out some variations of California Craps, stating that it considers any house-banked games played with dice, whether or not they incorporate the use of cards, to be unauthorized Class III gaming activities.

While these ADVISORY OPINIONS have scared some Tribes into doing away with any form of craps or roulette, it is important to remember that the advisory opinions do not constitute legal advice.

As long as Tribes can continue to present the viable argument that the particular game is a house-banked card game, the Tribal casinos are functioning within the boundaries of their Compacts, and players can continue to “roll the dice.”

Quote: ThatDonGuy

In California, pretty much every tribal casino that opened after 2010 is not allowed to have roulette in any form - not even electronic roulette. (If I had to guess, I would say that was put in because the state didn't want casinos to start using the kind of electronic roulette that has a "virtual croupier.") Note that electronic dice games, like craps or sic bo, are allowed - just not electronic roulette.

I've seen electronic roulette in California casinos.

...but I don't remember if I've seen any in casinos opened after 2010. I can check this weekend in Hollywood Jamul (which opened in 2016).

Quote: mamat

I've seen electronic roulette in California casinos.

...but I don't remember if I've seen any in casinos opened after 2010. I can check this weekend in Hollywood Jamul (which opened in 2016).

Here is a quote from the revised Jamul compact, dated 8/8/2016 (the main change is an increase in how many machines it can have, from 350 to 2500):
Sec. 3.1. Authorized Class III Gaming.
(c) Nothing herein shall be construed to authorize or permit the operation of any Class III Gaming that the State lacks the power to authorize or permit under article IV, section 19, subdivision (f), of the California State Constitution.

Article IV, Section 19(f) of the California State Constitution authorizes "slot machines, lottery games, and banking and percentage card games"; this should include card-based roulette and E-roulette. Even going by a strict definition of "slot machine," this would include E-Roulette, which, for all intents and purposes, is a one-reel, 38-stop slot machine where you can select your own pay table.

However, the Jackson Rancheria compact revision of 6/22/2016 includes a similar statement, but goes on to say:
This includes, but is not limited to, the operation of the game known as roulette, whether or not played with or on a mechanical, electro-mechanical, electrical, or video device, or cards, or any combination of such devices.

Here is how the ban appears in the Graton (Santa Rosa) compact, dated 3/27/2012:
Sec. 3.1. Authorized Class III Gaming.
(c) Nothing herein shall be construed to authorize the operation of the game known as roulette, whether or not played with or on a mechanical, electro-mechanical, electrical, or video device, or cards, or any combination of such devices, or the operation of any game that incorporates the physical use of die or dice.

Hollywood Jamul (opened 2016) has
a) Slot Roulette ("Tier points are not earned")
b) Card Craps (new version, where dice setting would work, and "card craps counting" would not)
Verified today (Sun 10/8/17)

Among the older CA casinos,
a) Agua Caliente has had slot roulette in their High-Limit room for years.
b) Pechanga has slot craps installed about one year ago. Only place I've seen it in CA.

Lots of card craps & card roulette in CA.

I checked four CA casinos this week.
Slot roulette was available at 3
- Hollywood Jamul, Pala, Pechanga

Pauma only had card roulette.

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Interestingly, two casinos have a newer form of card craps (which allows dice setting, but not "card craps counting")
- Hollywood Jamul, Pechanga.
I hadn't noticed the newer craps until this thread.
IMO it's more like real craps than the older card craps.