Basket Weave Slot

Hi everyone,

Here is a new game concept for slots:
http://basketslot.com

What do you think?

Thanks,
Alex

Love the concept. That music has to go though. Is there a bonus game?

There are three music choices and mute.
The site is for showing a new mechanic for slot game

Visually it looks neat, but I can't see how the slot moves on my phone. The music, The Carpenters' Top Of the World, I like. I'm guessing the individual strips move around then stop. Side effects for this will be very important I think. I might consider calling it basket strip slots, weave has a connotation, as in cheap fake hair women wear.

Slot junkies want bonuses and high variance big wins.

Quote: VladAlex1

Hi everyone,

Here is a new game concept for slots:
http://basketslot.com

What do you think?

Thanks,
Alex

I like the general concept.

I'm not sure if it's moving too fast or what, but it's kinda hard on the eyes.

I'm not sure who's into basket weaving.

What's the model of your phone? Apple or Android?
Thank you for for the concept name "basket strip slots" vs. the old "Basket weave slots"

Quote: VladAlex1

What's the model of your phone? Apple or Android?
Thank you for for the concept name "basket strip slots" vs. the old "Basket weave slots"

Lumia windows phone. Windows phones aren't supported by a lot of things, no worries.

Really cool.

The only criticism I can come up with off the top of my head, and this is scrounging a bit, but I could possibly see people getting upset/complaining/feeling ripped off if they get a winning combo on the vertical spin and lose it on the horizon spin.

Quote: gamerfreak

Really cool.

The only criticism I can come up with off the top of my head, and this is scrounging a bit, but I could possibly see people getting upset/complaining/feeling ripped off if they get a winning combo on the vertical spin and lose it on the horizon spin.

I think all of the weaves should spin at the same time.. both vertically and horizontally. That would solve this problem.

In this version of the slot win combos are determined after both the vertical and horizontal spins are complete. It may be possible to have wins paid out after each direction of spins is complete. This may be better than having everything spin at the same time. When everything spins at the same time it looks messy.

Check out how responsive the game design is. Narrow down your window size and it will make the game rotate into portrait mode. In that case the order and direction of spins should change, but technically it was hard to implement.
OR try flipping your phone or tablet and the game will auto-adjust to any way you hold your device.

one question and one criticism.

Do you believe the spin style is unique? I built a prototype slot game for a successful English gentleman that had a lot of success selling a very popular table game in the U.S. market. His game had a very similar spin mechanism. As far as I know he never released the game.

I hate to be critical but the basket theme name is terrible. I really hope you don't plan to use it and that this is just a proof of concept for the spin.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you continue developing the concept.

thanks! It's encouraging to know that so far people like this concept since vendors need to know if there is a poteintal market for it. The name of the slot is easy to change. It's up to the vendor or potential developer to descide on the name. If you have any suggestions for a name, I'm all ears.

By the way, the slot that I built that was similar was about fifteen years ago so if there was Intellectual Property patents filed they may be expiring in the next few years.

Quote: gamerfreak

...only criticism...people getting upset/complaining/feeling ripped off if they get a winning combo on the vertical spin and lose it on the horizon spin.

It's an interesting idea however I agree with the above so would have them all start spinning. I also sometimes found it hard to see the wins.

btw There are some games where each segment on each reel spin independently and/or reels spin normally. I remember one (possibly only a demo) based on fruits and States with a 4x4 screen that paid across, down and the two diagonals. A new one I've seen, paying multi ways across, has the center 9 spots spinning separately and the outside reels are normal.

"By the way, the slot that I built that was similar was about fifteen years ago"
Could you please be more specific on the your game name & pat?

http://basketslot.com

Quote: VladAlex1

"By the way, the slot that I built that was similar was about fifteen years ago"
Could you please be more specific on the your game name & pat?

http://basketslot.com

Sorry, I can't. I was contracted to build it for another company and it is their game and their intellectual property. I am not saying the game was the same but it did have a similar type of spin mechanics.

As far as I know, that "basket" style of play has never been done before. Interesting idea but I'm not sure it would be a success in the market. It is hard to get into the mind of a slot player but I think they like to see spinning reels and to have half the positions remain in place would subtract from the experience. This is the kind of thing I would save for a bonus round but not do on every spin.

I also have to object to the soundtrack you chose. I think "Top of the World" is a beautiful song and not appropriate for a slot machine. I would just ditch the soundtrack completely.

Quote: Wizard

As far as I know, that "basket" style of play has never been done before. Interesting idea but I'm not sure it would be a success in the market. It is hard to get into the mind of a slot player but I think they like to see spinning reels and to have half the positions remain in place would subtract from the experience. This is the kind of thing I would save for a bonus round but not do on every spin.

I also have to object to the soundtrack you chose. I think "Top of the World" is a beautiful song and not appropriate for a slot machine. I would just ditch the soundtrack completely.

You can change the music by clicking the sound Icon.

Quote: AxelWolf

You can change the music by clicking the sound Icon.

I felt forced to a decision to enjoy the music or play the game. I chose the music.

We'll replace the first soundtrack for something else soon. That's not a problem. Currently there is a mute option, and 2 other soundtracks for players to pick from.

The near-miss effect that slot players get addicted to can be recreated with this basket style slot if payout is done after each spin direction (aka mid spin payout). So for each complete spin there would be two payouts, one after the horizontal spin and another one after vertical spins. If after the horizontal spin there is a nearly complete winning pattern, the player may get excited and hope to complete the pattern on the upcoming vertical spin.

Quote: gamerfreak

Really cool.

The only criticism I can come up with off the top of my head, and this is scrounging a bit, but I could possibly see people getting upset/complaining/feeling ripped off if they get a winning combo on the vertical spin and lose it on the horizon spin.

I also really like the concept, but also agree that the player may feel ripped off if they have a winner after the horizontal reels are done spinning and it creates a winning line prior to the vertical spin. I think you could pay the player for a winning hand after the horizontal spin AND after the completion of the vertical spin. Almost like a double pay type situation.

I also think you could add a variation in gameplay such as a bonus game after the main spin. Something like a "push" feature that I have a provisional patent on right now. There are a number of other things I could see you doing with this concept, but overall, I think it is very solid.

Quote: VladAlex1

The near-miss effect that slot players get addicted to can be recreated with this basket style slot if payout is done after each spin direction (aka mid spin payout). So for each complete spin there would be two payouts, one after the horizontal spin and another one after vertical spins. If after the horizontal spin there is a nearly complete winning pattern, the player may get excited and hope to complete the pattern on the upcoming vertical spin.

I'm not an expert on slot psychology beyond the fact that I play them a good bit.

But I think you need to walk a very fine line on near-miss mechanics. While it's true they can be addictive, but they can also be equally as frustrating.

I think most slot players are chasing the bonus features, and nothing is worse when you hit a bonus, the machine goes WILD, and then only pays out $2. That's how you get me to walk away immediately. Its similar to seeing a bunch of like symbols, but nothing coming of it.

Quote: Wizard

I felt forced to a decision to enjoy the music or play the game. I chose the music.

Let auto play do the work for you, and win money while enjoying music! Every generation of players has different preferences so that's why there are 3 songs to pick from and mute.

If players are on their phone, this game fits perfectly on their screen no matter how they hold it. You can see it in action by adjusting your window size or click the info button and select "mode" for more details.

Are the counts of your "ways" incorrect? Given that you can win from the top or bottom... or right or left?

Quote: rsactuary

Are the counts of your "ways" incorrect? Given that you can win from the top or bottom... or right or left?

The math of the game is not defined yet.
This is just a concept demo.

I got few math experts opinons

1
Vladimir Dimov's comment
Great idea.

9 reel = more job for people like us. 
Rules are little bit complicated. 1024 + 625 ways.

But the game is not OK with stacked reels.

From design point of view:
Make the background for symbols different. For horizontal and for vertical reels.
Must be easier for players.

2
Mike Tamm’s comment
"Looks nice, but where is the sense (seeing with the gambler' eyes). I see only a too long running spin. Why should I win more with this system?. This is exactly my question. Please, let me feel that, then you are on the right way to success.

3
Ash Soleiman’s comment
Have to agree with Mike. But it can be fixed if adding some stack wins. The appeal
Of ways games is stack and semi stack wins and it's tricky to do it using vertical and horizontal pays. Its is also hard for the player to see any added value. I'm using a technique to achieve stack wins in my cascading reel games that might work for this concept.

Re: spin horizontal followed by a vertical spin with payouts after each spin direction

Does anyone agree or disagree with David Wright’s (IGT game producer) comments on jurisdiction regulations?

David Wright: So the first spin isn't random as some of the symbols are held over from the previous spin? How would you intend on getting this past a regulator as nearly every jurisdiction in the world that I know of would not allow this unless I'm misunderstanding something?

Quote: gamerfreak

I think most slot players are chasing the bonus features, and nothing is worse when you hit a bonus, the machine goes WILD, and then only pays out $2. That's how you get me to walk away immediately. Its similar to seeing a bunch of like symbols, but nothing coming of it.

Such is the balance between the value of your, 'Random,' set of Free Games and the, 'Wow,' factor of having games that can potentially award patently ridiculous amounts of initial free games (often over 100) off of the initial spin alone. The fact of the matter is that, if you want the latter factor, then the individual spins have to be nearly worthless. The downside to that is you have games that are also capable of awarding (and usually do reward) lesser amounts of free games in which one can walk away with less than even the initial bet amount!!!

Of course, if you change your reel distribution such that the average individual free game is worth more, then you have to make it either more difficult (or impossible, often by setting a cap) to get more than a particular amount of free games.

The only real bridge-gap measure is to combine something like the, 'Bonus Guarantee,' feature with games in which crazy huge numbers of free games are possible. Most Bonus Guarantee features offer something like 10x the bet guaranteed for any number of bonus spins...that's 10x the initial bet total, of course, not per spin.

Quote: VladAlex1

Re: spin horizontal followed by a vertical spin with payouts after each spin direction

Does anyone agree or disagree with David Wright’s (IGT game producer) comments on jurisdiction regulations?

David Wright: So the first spin isn't random as some of the symbols are held over from the previous spin? How would you intend on getting this past a regulator as nearly every jurisdiction in the world that I know of would not allow this unless I'm misunderstanding something?

I would hate to disagree with someone who actually works in the industry, but games such as Money Works and Venice Nights hold over sticky wilds from previous spins as they sit now. You could hit a spin in which there are stacked sticky wilds on the second, third and fourth reels, on the next spin, each of those stacks drops down one so there would be two sticky wilds on each reel for the next spin and then one on each reel the spin after that.

It's not typical, but nor is it non-existent.

Money Works.

https://youtu.be/1k_fIGEk7mA

Quote: VladAlex1

What do you think?

Make it a must-hit with an extremely fast Major meter and I love it.

But, seriously...

1.) Visual Tracking

-This game is tough to visually track as opposed to other slots which are easy and natural to visually track. People read from left to right, most slot machines reveal their results from left to right, so we're basically already visually trained to be able to quickly decipher the results of a slot machine.

-The game would be easier to visually track were there some differentiation in background between the vertical moving symbols as opposed to the horizontal ones, and I see that has already been mentioned.

-In addition to that being the way we read, slots are also designed that way to build anticipation. It's pretty evident on a, 'Standard,' slot machine (even though it spins faster than your game) that things are going well because you have the best symbol on a line on three...oh, oh...now four reels...can I hit the fifth? Even a spin that will not result in a winning line still has a chance on some games because of Scatter pays and Free Games that are not specific reel (or first reel starting) dependent.***

***The one thing your game has going for it is that your horizontal spin can look like garbage and you could still get saved by a good vertical, the problem is that you don't really have the time to process all of the possibilities before the result has already happened because of the unusual spin design. Occasionally, the horizontal spin will come in so well that you know you almost have to be in good shape, but at most, you only have a rough visual indication of where you stand...and that's going out of my way trying to track it and not immersing myself in the game (other than a forced and deliberate way) at all.

2.) 1,024 Has Been Done

-The only aspect of your game that hasn't been done is the vertical aspect, there are a ton of games that have done the horizontal thing and I think there may even be some five reel games in which horizontal results doing something like Reels 4,5,1 or Reels 2,3,4 would count as wins...I can't name any, but I know I've seen them. I could name tons of games that are just going left to right OR right to left, of course, everything but Scatters and two reel winners are incumbent on the center reel on those games.

3.) Free Games or Stacked Wilds, Both?

-This game definitely needs some sort of a draw in this regard. I understand you're only showing this as proof of concept, but I think I played about 100 spins just to try to test it out for you and it wasn't easy to get through that many.

Conclusion:

As much as I hate to say it, I think a game like this might have a chance after you add some sort of Free Games or Stacked Feature to it, and I also think the Horizontal pays and then Vertical pays was also a good suggestion. Other than that, just because it is so visually difficult to track I almost tend to believe that the game would succeed in spite of the basket feature rather than because of it...and I do apologize for having to say that. There's just nothing natural about it at all and for a player to play at a pace to fully have the anticipation of a potentially great spin would require slowing the game down way too much. I darted my eyes all over the screen after the horizontal and still could only visually track only about half of my winning possibilities before the spin was over...and even that was with basically ignoring the verticals as they were coming in.

Quote: Mission146

2.) 1,024 Has Been Done

-The only aspect of your game that hasn't been done is the vertical aspect.

Lots of game have done vertical pays, I think what he has that may be unique is the concept of a multi stage spin where you get paid after each stage.

Hey, I'm the IGT game producer :)

You are correct that you can hold over sticky wilds and this is done on many many games. This is because a wild is an advantage to the player as it acts as all the symbols (if a scatter lands behind it you still have to award the scatter).

However holding over other symbols credit to credit could be a disadvantage and is therefore not allowed under all the regulations I know of... There may be some that would allow it.

The easiest way to do the double spin legally would be to charge 2x for it (so if you wanted to charge 30 credits a spin, charge 60 and do the two spins)

A few of the other posts have touched on the other issues I see with this game... The ability to track what's happening, the lack of a feature or stacked symbols to name a few.

I'm all for innovation but just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be... I think this is one that falls in to the category of "nice idea but probably won't work commercially"

Multi stage spins have been done before where you're paid every spin...

Quote: Wizard

As far as I know, that "basket" style of play has never been done before. Interesting idea but I'm not sure it would be a success in the market. It is hard to get into the mind of a slot player but I think they like to see spinning reels and to have half the positions remain in place would subtract from the experience.

The problem with slot players is they are a fickle bunch... If you change things too much you risk a commercial flop...

The issue the industry faces is that it needs to innovate but innovation can't be too large otherwise players just don't like it... So it has to be a bit softly softly... Which is a shame because I'd like to take big leaps in innovation sometimes but when I've tried to do this the players nearly always dislike it :(

Quote: Trancemonkey

Hey, I'm the IGT game producer :)

It's certainly nice to see you! Are you guys listening to pitches on new Keno games, by chance? I have one great one, and admittedly, most of my other ideas stink!

Quote:

You are correct that you can hold over sticky wilds and this is done on many many games. This is because a wild is an advantage to the player as it acts as all the symbols (if a scatter lands behind it you still have to award the scatter).

However holding over other symbols credit to credit could be a disadvantage and is therefore not allowed under all the regulations I know of... There may be some that would allow it.

You would know better than I would, but I would think that it would be an advantage either way because it tells the player whether he should play or not. The machine would be, "Vulturable," which I'm sure is one reason why everyone here went to bat for it. A player could look at the alignment of the vertical symbols (which would stay in place while the horizontals moved and then give a payout before the verticals changed) and based on those symbols a new player could make a spin already knowing he has won or that the symbols are in very good position for him to have +EV.

For example, if I know that I am going to have four of the best symbols already in place (because of the verticals) such that I only need one of those symbols to fall in place for a vertical four-of-a-kind or horizontal five-of-a-kind on the horizontal spin, then I am definitely betting that!

Quote:

The easiest way to do the double spin legally would be to charge 2x for it (so if you wanted to charge 30 credits a spin, charge 60 and do the two spins)

A few of the other posts have touched on the other issues I see with this game... The ability to track what's happening, the lack of a feature or stacked symbols to name a few.

I agree 100%.

Quote:

I'm all for innovation but just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be... I think this is one that falls in to the category of "nice idea but probably won't work commercially"

I also agree with that 100%.

I'm not sure if this takes away from his slot idea, but what would happen if the basket concept would spin horizontally and vertically at the same time and then both end at the same time? I don't think it would be very easy on the eyes, but would it allow him to get away from the double spin?

Quote: Trancemonkey

The problem with slot players is they are a fickle bunch... If you change things too much you risk a commercial flop...

The issue the industry faces is that it needs to innovate but innovation can't be too large otherwise players just don't like it... So it has to be a bit softly softly... Which is a shame because I'd like to take big leaps in innovation sometimes but when I've tried to do this the players nearly always dislike it :(

Trancemonkey, I would think the players would be willing to try the new concepts and innovations. In your situation, was the player's dislike a result of the gaming company not giving the player enough time to "get to know the game" before deciding that it wasn't a success? There have been a number of new games which I originally said that I didn't like after playing them for a short amount of time, but after a few more times of going back to it, the game kind of grew on me and I eventually came around to liking the game.

This is a mobile compatible slot game that is ideal for mobile users which is a huge market that brings in approx. 60% revenue of all online gambling (vs. approx. 40% for desktop/ babyboomers). Traditional slot games do not look good in portrait mode, while this one looks great either way you hold your mobile device. Younger generation of players may be more open to playing this game since it gives a better user experience.

Portrait mode may be compatible with new IGT, SGI, Aristocrat etc. slot cabinet portrait displays.
There may be different modes with up to 6x9 strips that gives 10,077,696 ways to win.

I'm sorry to say but the game bored me after about five spins. I found the vertical spin occurring after the first spin visually upsetting.
I wouldn't touch this game. Just my opinion. Too many symbols and hard to track anything until the wheels stop.

Quote: RealizeGaming

Trancemonkey, I would think the players would be willing to try the new concepts and innovations. In your situation, was the player's dislike a result of the gaming company not giving the player enough time to "get to know the game" before deciding that it wasn't a success? There have been a number of new games which I originally said that I didn't like after playing them for a short amount of time, but after a few more times of going back to it, the game kind of grew on me and I eventually came around to liking the game.

Sure you would hope that... But the problem is people won't pay to learn a game... They want to understand (and enjoy a game) within the first session... That doesn't necessarily mean they have to win, but they do have to enjoy it. Making people enjoy winning is easy... Making people enjoy losing is a much bigger challenge and something all producers strive for.

There is a lot of education of casinos and other operators as to certain product lines needing longer to bed... But if you are selling a "slot" game then it is going to be measured in performance against other slots, and no matter how much you argue that it "should be given longer to bed in", they are unlikely to give you much extra time and even then they would have to buy in to the product as "different and better". While I agree this product is different I don't think it's better... Better to me is engaging, exciting, entertaining and something that makes me keep coming back. This doesn't tick all of those boxes for me I'm afraid.

The only places simple games like this work in a retail environment (and by like this, I mean with no feature and just wins) are Eastern European fruit markets but the double spin, as well as being potentially illegal as I've previously explained) I think would be very confusing for the players.

You could try and partner with a social casino site to get some initial feedback and see how it does...

Billryan, the point of this web page was not to entertain players but to show a game concept for designers and developers.

Quote: VladAlex1

Billryan, the point of this web page was not to entertain players but to show a game concept for designers and developers.

With all due respect, I tend to believe that designers and developers tend to be interested in game concepts that will entertain players.

Quote: VladAlex1

Billryan, the point of this web page was not to entertain players but to show a game concept for designers and developers.

I'd think you would want input from potential players, but anyway, best of luck.

Game content is what entertains players. To have a TV does not mean it will be entertaining, that's up to the show producers. To have a slot concept does not mean it will be fun to play. It's up to the game developers and designers to add bonus rounds, fun animation, sounds and social media.

Quote: VladAlex1

Hi everyone,

Here is a new game concept for slots:
http://basketslot.com

What do you think?

Thanks,
Alex

How silly of me to think this was soliciting opinions.

Billryan, sorry for not being clear.

No problem. Hope it works out.

Quote: VladAlex1

Game content is what entertains players. To have a TV does not mean it will be entertaining, that's up to the show producers. To have a slot concept does not mean it will be fun to play. It's up to the game developers and designers to add bonus rounds, fun animation, sounds and socially media.

Apologies for editing here... I completely misread what VladAlex1 had posted.

Trancemonkey, I’m glad we’re on the same page :-)