Slot Vulture Mini Biography

It's from 2012 so his techniques might be out of date and useless now, I really don't know, it's not my thing. But I found the article interesting and believable and I found myself liking the guy. The article says he worked 12 hour days and found $600 to $1200 per week.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/nyregion/not-betting-a-dime-a-voucher-vulture-cleans-up-at-the-slots.html

He's a thief that should be in prison. I hope he's prosecuted.

Quote: sabre

He's a thief that should be in prison. I hope he's prosecuted.

What crime would he be charged with? Is there a law against finding stuff?

Quote: lilredrooster

What crime would he be charged with? Is there a law against finding stuff?

In PA, it's theft. More specifically

§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.

They describe him as looking youthful for his 55 years, to me he looks 65-70.

What are you supposed to do if there are credits left on a machine? Are you not allowed to play because you'd be stealing those credits.

Quote: sabre

In PA, it's theft. More specifically

§ 3924. Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.

With the exception of "delivered by mistake" if there was a name and address on the package, that is an example of lawyers and political hacks doing something to make themselves look important when the world would be better of if they did nothing at all. Let them spend the time they save shopping for suits.

Quote: ck1313

What are you supposed to do if there are credits left on a machine? Are you not allowed to play because you'd be stealing those credits.

There are two options for that:

A.) Print the ticket and immediately deliver it to a casino employee, which is a waste of time for small amounts, of course. Almost the same would be having the employee print it, I would probably do that if it was a substantial ticket...and I was in a PA casino. More likely just leave the machine alone completely.

OR

B.) Print out the ticket and set it on top of the machine. That is the one I go with if playing in a PA casino.

I think it's a stupid law. I think everyone otherwise has their own standards as to when something constitutes an, 'Abandoned,' ticket, and as long as the person is sleeping when they put their head down for the night, it's whatever. The casinos (often) claim that the found money is somehow donated if it remains unclaimed, but I suspect that the money is likely donated...to the casino's coffers. They have to claim it through the state and everything else. Technically, some paperwork to do.

I'm not accusing any casinos, generally or specifically, of doing anything other than donating it, I could just see where there would be incentive not to. If any unclaimed monies (after thirty days) went into funding for some player drawing that takes place every thirty (or so) days, I think that'd be cool.

Op, are you telling us that if you accidentally left $20 in the machine for a few seconds or a few minutes only to find out it was stolen by a TITO thief you wouldn't be more than a little mad? People accidentally leave money in the machine a lot of times. For example I read somewhere that someone was playing in a machine and his friend on the other side happily told him he just won a $900 progressive on just .50. The guy went over to his friend to see and congratulate him and chat with him, completely forgetting that he left his machine abandoned with his money still in it. He rushed back to his machine when he remembered and saw his money had been cashed out and was told that the thief had already cashed his ticket and left the casino property.

I also read that a woman had over a $1000 stolen in just seconds. She got a $1,000 win on a lucky spin and left her machine to go to her friend who was down a few seats from her to brag about winning a $1,000 win. A thief pressed cash out on her machine and ran off with it in just the few seconds it took to brag about the huge win.

Are you telling me you would still have a "Finders keepers?" attitude if something like the above happened to you? :/

Quote: Nathan

Op, are you telling us that if you accidentally left $20 in the machine for a few seconds or a few minutes only to find out it was stolen by a TITO thief you wouldn't be more than a little mad? People accidentally leave money in the machine a lot of times. For example I read somewhere that someone was playing in a machine and his friend on the other side happily told him he just won a $900 progressive on just .50. The guy went over to his friend to see and congratulate him and chat with him, completely forgetting that he left his machine abandoned with his money still in it. He rushed back to his machine when he remembered and saw his money had been cashed out and was told that the thief had already cashed his ticket and left the casino property.

I also read that a woman had over a $1000 stolen in just seconds. She got a $1,000 win on a lucky spin and left her machine to go to her friend who was down a few seats from her to brag about winning a $1,000 win. A thief pressed cash out on her machine and ran off with it in just the few seconds it took to brag about the huge win.

Are you telling me you would still have a "Finders keepers?" attitude if something like the above happened to you? :/

If I left $20 in the machine for a few minutes and it was gone when I came back I would be pissed and blame myself. The woman who left her seat for just a few seconds to tell her friend a few seats away that she won $1,000 is a different thing entirely, and you are using an extreme and highly unusual example to call this guy a thief. That's like saying if a woman leaves her change purse with $20 in it in her shopping cart on top of her grocery bag and then takes a few steps over to see what's hot on Redbox and some guy grabs her change purse is the same thing as if the guy found $20 on the floor. It's not the same thing. I'm not interested in doing what he does but I wouldn't call him a thief.

Cashing out TITOs that are accidentally left behind is stealing and anyone that does that is liable for casino banning and possibly jail time.

Love it

There is another thread talking about this same article.

If he is taking amounts from the customers that would get back the rightful owner I frown on that.

If the guy is finding abandon credits that would never get claimed and just go back to the casino.

I don't think the guy should go to jail for that.

Quote: bw

They describe him as looking youthful for his 55 years, to me he looks 65-70.

deja vu

Quote: lilredrooster

If I left $20 in the machine for a few minutes and it was gone when I came back I would be pissed and blame myself. The woman who left her seat for just a few seconds to tell her friend a few seats away that she won $1,000 is a different thing entirely, and you are using an extreme and highly unusual example to call this guy a thief. That's like saying if a woman leaves her change purse with $20 in it in her shopping cart on top of her grocery bag and then takes a few steps over to see what's hot on Redbox and some guy grabs her change purse is the same thing as if the guy found $20 on the floor. It's not the same thing. I'm not interested in doing what he does but I wouldn't call him a thief.

You're insinuating he would not cash out a "significant" amount from a seemingly abandoned machine. If the guy is scrounging the casino for 37c here, 22c there, and a nice 83c on that machine....no way in hell is he going to see a machine with a $20 or $500 in it and say, "Nah, someone's gonna come back for this. I'll leave it here for them to get when they return."

If I leave $20 in a machine and someone swoops on it, yes, it's my fault -- that doesn't mean the guy who took the money is not a thief. We're both at fault. But one was accidental and the other intentional.

Quote: RS

If I leave $20 in a machine and someone swoops on it, yes, it's my fault -- that doesn't mean the guy who took the money is not a thief. We're both at fault. But one was accidental and the other intentional.

Let me toss you a hypothetical:

Let's say a player goes up to the bar for a drink, or to play bartops, and notices a machine with $40-something left behind. The player sits at that station, maybe asks the barkeep if the barkeep recognizes who was there before that as still being at the bar, the bartender says no. Now, let's say the person plays a different machine for a half hour, or even that the person goes somewhere else in the house for a half hour and then goes back and checks if the credits are still there and still precisely the same amount. If the person cashes it out, at that point, would you consider the person a thief?

If it's me, after a half hour, I would probably cash it. Unless the casino can demonstrate that the money actually goes to charity and not into their coffers or an employee's pocket. I want dates, machine numbers and amounts found. It should be information that is openly posted or could be requested. If that was definitely happening, I would just turn it in immediately and hope the person goes to the cage to claim it after checking the bar and seeing if it is gone. If it goes into the casino's coffers or an employee's pocket, and either myself or the casino is going to be a thief, I'll go ahead and beat them to it after giving the person who may have left it ample time to return.

Now, if I sit at a machine and put my money in and then notice that $0.17, or anything under a dollar, really, was left behind. Don't really care. If anyone comes asking, I'll just hand the person a buck.

Quote: Mission146

Let me toss you a hypothetical:

Let's say a player goes up to the bar for a drink, or to play bartops, and notices a machine with $40-something left behind. The player sits at that station, maybe asks the barkeep if the barkeep recognizes who was there before that as still being at the bar, the bartender says no. Now, let's say the person plays a different machine for a half hour, or even that the person goes somewhere else in the house for a half hour and then goes back and checks if the credits are still there and still precisely the same amount. If the person cashes it out, at that point, would you consider the person a thief?

If it's me, after a half hour, I would probably cash it. Unless the casino can demonstrate that the money actually goes to charity and not into their coffers or an employee's pocket. I want dates, machine numbers and amounts found. It should be information that is openly posted or could be requested. If that was definitely happening, I would just turn it in immediately and hope the person goes to the cage to claim it after checking the bar and seeing if it is gone. If it goes into the casino's coffers or an employee's pocket, and either myself or the casino is going to be a thief, I'll go ahead and beat them to it after giving the person who may have left it ample time to return.

Now, if I sit at a machine and put my money in and then notice that $0.17, or anything under a dollar, really, was left behind. Don't really care. If anyone comes asking, I'll just hand the person a buck.

No, probably not.

I find,in life, that people who call other people thieves, liars, forinicators, adulterous, evil... etc etc. You know, these self righteous finger pointers! These people always and I mean always are either doing the same lewd behavior or something worse. I see the politicians doing it all the time. They preach against prostitution and months later they go to jail for running an illegal brothel! Groundhog Day used to mean something, we used pull the hog out and we used to eat it. Your all hypocrites. I'll give you a winter prediction... it's gonna be cold, it's gonna be grey and it's gonna last you for the rest of your life.

One Indian casino (not in NV) tells their slot employees to ignore all amounts in slot machines under $5.
The cost of processing the abandoned ticket is not worth it.

------
In Nevada FY 2016, there was $12 million worth of abandoned tickets. From that, the state received $8.78 million. The rest went back to the casinos.

In 2011, Assemblyman William Horne, D-Las Vegas, spearheaded Assembly Bill 219, which mandates that 75 percent of the revenue from lost vouchers be sent to the state’s general fund and 25 percent stay with the casinos.

The Nevada Gaming Control Board is responsible for gathering that money and sending it off to the state’s general fund. Each quarter, the casinos report the total dollar amount of unclaimed vouchers to the board and then pay the board 75 percent of that amount.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/dec/20/forget-a-casino-ticket-heres-what-happens-to-the-m/

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Picking up money:

Las Vegas is good for $20-30/day (without trying very hard). $6K-10K/yr.
Possibly 2X-3X+ that amount if you spent all day just looking.
One low-budget AP says New Years is a fantastic time for "credit hustling", "vulturing credits". Lots of money on the floors.

When I asked an LV casino about rules, they didn't allow picking up chips, loose tickets, or cashing out tickets. But picking up cash on the floor was ok.
Don't usually get sent to jail, but can get 86'ed.

Indian casinos widely vary. One casino has big signs near the parking lot ("We are not responsible for lost, stolen, or abandoned tickets.") Their rule of thumb is if you are more than three slot machines away, then your credits are considered "abandoned" and fair game.

Some Indian casinos disallow picking up cash on the floor. The proper procedure is to turn it into the casino. If no one claims it in 30 days, it is yours. (Why a casino employee's friend can't claim it's theirs, I don't know.)

I've reported many $300-900 abandoned amounts to casinos. Once I saw 1700-1900 credits on a bartop (0.25, $400+), and a vulture desperately wanted to cash it out. I called a slot person. Turns out a lady staying in the casino had been playing Keno, and didn't realize that she won the last bet.

Some low-budget APs have done the stupid thing of taking an $800-2,000 ticket, and getting booted from a casino where they were getting $1,000/month FP & free rooms. Desperate and stupid.

If I want to play a slot machine with credits still in it (even a few pennies), I cash out the credits and put them on the machine, before putting my own money in.
I've had people come up to me & claim that my $100 was their money. ...I just point to the ticket i cashed out, and say "that's yours".

Once a lady cashed out my $200-300 and held it for me under her handbag.
There are some very honest people in casinos.
I've lost my wallet a few times, and they've always been turned into security with NO money missing.

Another time someone cashed out $120-140 from my machine. Lady came back, asked me if I was playing that machine, and gave me the $120-140 (bills & coins).

Largest amount I've seen abandoned was 6,000 credits in a $0.50 machine ($3,000). Not in High Limit, no jacket on chair, card in machine, etc... Watched it for about 5 minutes before someone came back to play. They must have had a lot of money to not care about $3,000.
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Having my money stolen:

I've had $200+ tickets stolen/taken about 5-6 times. All except two were returned by casino security/surveillance. Sometimes if the thief has spent some of the money, the casino gives me FP to cover the stolen amount.

Amounts under $100 seem to be too small for surveillance to bother to rerun tapes.

I guess that's kind of my point if in the case of Nevada and some others, if the state gets 75% and the casinos get 25%, then I would rather just take 100% after waiting a reasonable period of time and asking someone in the immediate vicinity (upon initial discovery) whether the person playing that machine is still around. Like I said, I'm talking like a half hour, here.

If the casino were to get, say, 0% of that money, then my opinion on the matter would be entirely different. If the State got 100%, or better yet, it got donated to homeless shelters, then I would cash out any found credits and go out of my way to immediately turn them in regardless of how small the amount.

How is it stealing for me to profit off of abandoned money, but not stealing if the casino does it?

Quote: Mission146

How is it stealing for me to profit off of abandoned money, but not stealing if the casino does it?

It's called a law.

Quote: sabre

It's called a law.

If that matters to you. I'm talking in terms of morality, here. Why should the casino, often some huge corporation, get 25% off of the abandoned money when someone else might find it before they do? Why could I not turn it in and then I get 25% and the State of Nevada would get 75% if it is unclaimed? I'm just looking for something with more moral authority, I suppose, than, 'It's a law.' The laws of man are only of interest to me when they either suit me, when they don't suit me but getting caught breaking one wouldn't be worth the risk or when they are consistent with my moral positions.

Quote: sabre

It's called a law.

I don't think picking up money from the ground ... is illegal in any state/federal law. Not sure about chips.

For tickets (cashing out from machine, or picking up), the Las Vegas Sun article I posted says this:

“The District Attorney seems to agree as far as going forward with criminal cases we submit based on the ‘theft’ of slot vouchers. The law that governs it is NRS 205.0832, and the actual value of the voucher or item would determine the penalty, i.e., whether it’s considered a misdemeanor or felony.

“There may be other circumstances where we might be able to charge the actual gaming crime of Fraudulent Acts, NRS 465.070,” he said. “Basically, taking something from a gambling game without having made a wager. This oftentimes applies to lost or stolen race and sports tickets. Keep in mind, too, that employees could be charged as well if they found a voucher, cashed it or did not turn it in.”

Quote: mamat

I don't think picking up money from the ground ... is illegal in any state/federal law.

It's illegal in Pennsylvania, unless you intend to turn it in. The law says you must make some effort to find the owner. I wouldn't know what constitutes, 'Effort,' without looking it up.

The District Attorney would agree with that, state revenue. I would, 'Agree,' with that were I the District Attorney.

Quote: Mission146

It's illegal in Pennsylvania, unless you intend to turn it in. The law says you must make some effort to find the owner. I wouldn't know what constitutes, 'Effort,' without looking it up.

The District Attorney would agree with that, state revenue. I would, 'Agree,' with that were I the District Attorney.

A DA upholds any law no matter how ridiculous. They arent concerned with morality but law-breaking period

If it was illegal to eat ice cream in public they would prosecute u to the fullest extent of the law. Btw there was a law against eating ice cream in public. It was in Carmel county california and was repealed by clint eastwood when he became mayor. Look it up

The problem in solving this riddle is the amount. Few would say that a if a guy sat down and there was $1.75 left in the machine and he didn't make any effort to find the rightful owner that this guy is lacking in moral qualities. That would probably be the case for up to $20. But then if the amount is $75 the whole think looks a little bit different. If it was me I would make some effort to locate the person. But I'm not going to knock myself out or hand it over to a casino suit. I would probably ask a cocktail waitress and some nearby players if they knew who was at that machine and that would be it. And then if the amount is $500 the situation looks very different and it does make a person who just snatches it quickly and disappears morally bankrupt. But should he be jailed? This happens pretty rarely. I would say that what is fair in this situation is to have the casino contact the police and for it to be legal to have the guy searched and the voucher confiscated and returned to its rightful owner . And if the guy who had the voucher confiscated feels that what happened is unfair then he can sue in civil court to be renumerated. The posters who are quoting the PA law should note that since as far as I know most other states do not have this law that the other point of view is reasonable. There are civil courts. I don't think this country can benefit from laws such as this.
....................And this is off the subject a little bit, and I'm not saying it's the same thing but it is pretty amusing. Iowa has a law that says one armed piano players must perform for free. Here are some other wild laws from the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/weird-laws-in-america_us_56a264abe4b0d8cc1099e1cd

Quote: darkoz

A DA upholds any law no matter how ridiculous. They arent concerned with morality but law-breaking period

If it was illegal to eat ice cream in public they would prosecute u to the fullest extent of the law. Btw there was a law against eating ice cream in public. It was in Carmel county california and was repealed by clint eastwood when he became mayor. Look it up

But what would happen if a minority was enjoying the ice cream in public on Clint Eastwoods lawn? Would the universe implode? Can God create a rock so big he can't lift it?

You'd be surprised how low people are nowadays when it comes to unclaimed winning tickets! In the news, a woman excitedly posted her winning racing slip worth $900 to Facebook BEFORE she cashed it in. Lo and behold, when she went to cash in the winning slip, she was told that her winning slip had already been cashed. In horror, she realized someone with a scanner who was on Facebook scanned her ticket online and made off with her $900 win! She said something like,"Whoever scanned my winning ticket and stole my $900, you are a low life creep and karma will come back to bite you hard in your miserable behind 10 times worse than the money you stole from me." I was pretty shocked that you could scan a winning unclaimed racing slip online and get the cash! Pretty scary stuff!

Quote: Nathan

You'd be surprised how low people are nowadays when it comes to unclaimed winning tickets! In the news, a woman excitedly posted her winning racing slip worth $900 to Facebook BEFORE she cashed it in. Lo and behold, when she went to cash in the winning slip, she was told that her winning slip had already been cashed. In horror, she realized someone with a scanner who was on Facebook scanned her ticket online and made off with her $900 win! She said something like,"Whoever scanned my winning ticket and stole my $900, you are a low life creep and karma will come back to bite you hard in your miserable behind 10 times worse than the money you stole from me." I was pretty shocked that you could scan a winning unclaimed racing slip online and get the cash! Pretty scary stuff!

I like reading all your posts out loud in the voice of Towelie. Long story short I like you, you're nice ;)

Quote: RogerKint

I like reading all your posts out loud in the voice of Towelie. Long story short I like you, you're nice ;)

Aw, thank you for the warm compliment! :D

Another problem with the PA law is that it would also make illegal what the guy does at racetracks which is pick up betting slips thrown onto the ground by the bettor who didn't realize that the ticket was a winner. And that would be so very ridiculous. The reality is that law enforcement in large cities is overwhelmed and even much more serious crimes, such as identity theft and stealing your credit card info to make a purchase or get cash are often not even investigated unless they believe they can nail a large gang of racketeers.

In pa their bus transfers clearly state on the back it is a felony for anyone to use it who did not pay for it including finding it or being handed it to ride by someone else

So in pa possession of a .50 transfer is a felony if u found it on the floor

Nonetheless i have heard of no one convicted of this crime. Im sure it would make the news. Police officer noted grandmother gave her grandchild a bus transfer for her ride home and arrested them for felony possession

I was 86'ed from a casino for "cashing out credits" from a machine - less than .25

Jeez folks,,,,, the solution is simple. BRING BACK COINS.

Nobody gonna step away from their coin bucket to go brag to a friend a few steps away.
Nobody gonna misunderstand whether there are any coins left in the bucket or not.

There are enough signs in a casino but I see no reason not to have each machine have a 'press cashout before you leave...or somebody else will".

Gonna be nice to see change girls again.

Quote: FleaStiff

Jeez folks,,,,, the solution is simple. BRING BACK COINS.

Nobody gonna step away from their coin bucket to go brag to a friend a few steps away.
Nobody gonna misunderstand whether there are any coins left in the bucket or not.

There are enough signs in a casino but I see no reason not to have each machine have a 'press cashout before you leave...or somebody else will".

Gonna be nice to see change girls again.

There was more theft when there were coins. People specialized in stealing coin buckets and the money was just sitting there for the taking. A common one was them sitting on the opposite side of the bank sliding up the plastic divider and taking the bucket. Or they will tell people they dropped coins and then grabbing a rack or bucket. There were 2 or 3 people teams that distracted people and took their coins.

Nowadays the main problem is when people walk away from their machine, it only takes a few seconds for a ticket to come out, and it only takes a few minuets to cash the ticket and exit the casino. However, if you use your slot card you have a better chance to recover.

The casinos and state have become blatant thieves as they rake in millions in expired and unclaimed slot tickets.
By Thomas Moore
Monday, Dec. 26, 2016 .
"Gamblers left more than $35 million on casino floors in the past five years, money the state of Nevada was happy to come along and pick up."

Some casinos refuse to cash in expired slot tickets.

I will never feel guilty about AP'ing a casino.

Quote: darkoz

A DA upholds any law no matter how ridiculous. They arent concerned with morality but law-breaking period

If it was illegal to eat ice cream in public they would prosecute u to the fullest extent of the law. Btw there was a law against eating ice cream in public. It was in Carmel county california and was repealed by clint eastwood when he became mayor. Look it up

I'll take your word, and that's my point. If I were the DA, I would uphold anything on the books because it would be my job, thus, every law would meet one of my criteria which is, 'Suiting me.'

Quote: Mission146

If that matters to you. I'm talking in terms of morality, here. Why should the casino, often some huge corporation, get 25% off of the abandoned money when someone else might find it before they do? Why could I not turn it in and then I get 25% and the State of Nevada would get 75% if it is unclaimed? I'm just looking for something with more moral authority, I suppose, than, 'It's a law.' The laws of man are only of interest to me when they either suit me, when they don't suit me but getting caught breaking one wouldn't be worth the risk or when they are consistent with my moral positions.

I believe the 25% the casino gets is for the administrative process of sending the 75% to the state. Abandoned tickets are required to be kept by the casino until they expire which is generally 90 to 180 days. Once the ticket is expired the casino must account for the amount expired that month and realize 25% of that amount as gaming revenue. Once per quarter the 75% of the monthly expired ticket revenue is reported and sent to the state.

Quote: DRich

I believe the 25% the casino gets is for the administrative process of sending the 75% to the state. Abandoned tickets are required to be kept by the casino until they expire which is generally 90 to 180 days. Once the ticket is expired the casino must account for the amount expired that month and realize 25% of that amount as gaming revenue. Once per quarter the 75% of the monthly expired ticket revenue is reported and sent to the state.

Thank you for the explanation with respect to the process. In my mind, it would also be different if the casino took that 25%, and I'm not talking about the thirty machine slot boxes, but the major casinos to have some sort of monthly or quarterly, 'Money Return,' drawing...or they could figure out a better name than that. If you have some slot box that might see a hundred bucks in cumulative abandoned tickets per month, that doesn't concern me, but some place that could be potentially making thousands a month that could easily go to the players? That bothers me. I can't figure out how it is theft in one instance and not the other.

Quote: Mission146

I'll take your word, and that's my point. If I were the DA, I would uphold anything on the books because it would be my job, thus, every law would meet one of my criteria which is, 'Suiting me.'

No you wouldn't! Nobody can and does. You guys are smarter than this. You better believe that some situation would come down the pipe and you'll have to look the other way. More powerful people would crush you and your little DAs job if you didn't play ball.

Quote: mamat

[T]he Las Vegas Sun article I posted says this:

Quote:

The District Attorney ... said. “Basically, taking something from a gambling game without having made a wager.”

One time I was checking out the high-limit slots and noticed a multi-denomination machine ($1-$5) had zero credits (at $5). When I set it to $1, it showed $3 available. I printed the ticket and took it to 3 staff who were standing at a table nearby (looked like a supervisor was talking to staff for some reason). I put the ticket on the table and said, "This was left on one of the machines. I guess it's yours." They all looked at me like I had just arrived from Mars.

When I see a machine I want to play, I sit down and put my money in. When I see my $20 resulted in 2,047 pennies, I can guess what probably happened. But, I go ahead and play. Seems to me, that avoids "taking without betting," as the DA noted.

Not sure, but I probably would do the same thing if the "extra" amount was higher. Could have been left accidentally by a previous player. Or, it could have been a machine malfunction. If I wasn't aware of the situation when I put my $$ in, I wouldn't know what happened. Heck, I might not realize the overage until after a bet or two. I'm an old guy, and might have missed something when the cute waitress walked past. "Oh, Miss! Miss! Would you please bring me a sasaparilla, please?" Hmmm, did I just win something, or what?

Lucky
(Old enough to know that sometimes ignorance is bliss.)

Quote: monet0412

Groundhog Day used to mean something, we used pull the hog out and we used to eat it.

you hid that little gem in there! Next time I get real mad I am going to quote you LOL