DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
Joined: May 4, 2016
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June 15th, 2016 at 5:31:32 PM permalink
On some Konami slots when you win a bunch of free games you either get the choice of a random credit prize with a lower and upper bound or play the free games. Does anyone know how the two compare ? Small sample size but I have seen the minimum prize awarded but never getting less than the min from playing the free games. Also worth noting on most games the free spins have bonuses compared to normal spins, eg. all pays doubled or easy trigger more free games. I would assume that the choices are equivalent returns but perhaps not. Anyone know ?
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
Mooseton
Mooseton
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June 15th, 2016 at 5:41:33 PM permalink
IIRC it was DRICH who said to go for the free games. His posts are reliable, my memory not so much.
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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June 15th, 2016 at 6:20:36 PM permalink
I would ALWAYS TAKE the free games
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tringlomane
tringlomane
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June 15th, 2016 at 11:41:06 PM permalink
Quote: Mooseton

IIRC it was DRICH who said to go for the free games. His posts are reliable, my memory not so much.



Yeah, that's what he said, but I forgot in what thread he said it in. I would like to know where he got that info. Did he sneak-a-peek at a PAR? Personally I'm surprised that credits would be worse return. I guess they would either be equal or better on average return (with lower variance than the free spins of course). Doesn't the casino want to not have bonus rounds that last forever, and ever?? On the biggest bonuses, you just stopped your machine's coin-in for an ~hour, except for the degenerates that start gambling on the next machine over while the spins play out of course.
DRich
DRich
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June 16th, 2016 at 7:37:38 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Yeah, that's what he said, but I forgot in what thread he said it in. I would like to know where he got that info. Did he sneak-a-peek at a PAR? Personally I'm surprised that credits would be worse return. I guess they would either be equal or better on average return (with lower variance than the free spins of course). Doesn't the casino want to not have bonus rounds that last forever, and ever?? On the biggest bonuses, you just stopped your machine's coin-in for an ~hour, except for the degenerates that start gambling on the next machine over while the spins play out of course.



My information was based on games from companies that I worked with. Taking the instant prize was worth 50% to 60% of the free spins.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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June 16th, 2016 at 8:24:26 AM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

I would ALWAYS TAKE the free games

Certainly I can think of situations where that WOULDN'T ALWAYS be the correct move. IE a slot bonus that requires x amount of coins, and your credit bonus offer amount is that or over the amount needed.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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June 16th, 2016 at 8:27:57 AM permalink
Those are normally penny and 2 cent games- although leave it to axel to find the 1 in a million where it may not be productive- but for most on this board EXCLUDING SOME axel created promo/ picking the games is higher ev on the actual game itself. ... Which is what I believe the question was
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DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
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June 16th, 2016 at 9:51:14 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

My information was based on games from companies that I worked with. Taking the instant prize was worth 50% to 60% of the free spins.



Was the motivation behind that ever explained ? I would think it would be beneficial to the casino to have it opposite, free spins are taking up time on machine with no coin in; the instant prize has people back to spending money a lot quicker.
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
DRich
DRich
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June 16th, 2016 at 10:01:32 AM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2

Was the motivation behind that ever explained ? I would think it would be beneficial to the casino to have it opposite, free spins are taking up time on machine with no coin in; the instant prize has people back to spending money a lot quicker.



No, I never heard an explanation but I would speculate that the many of people who are taking the instant win are more likely to cash out because they have a "big" win. The players that take the free spins are more likely enjoying the game and will probably continue playing.

I did advocate for the instant win prize to be raised closer to the expected return of the free spins.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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June 16th, 2016 at 12:58:51 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

No, I never heard an explanation but I would speculate that the many of people who are taking the instant win are more likely to cash out because they have a "big" win. The players that take the free spins are more likely enjoying the game and will probably continue playing.

I did advocate for the instant win prize to be raised closer to the expected return of the free spins.



That might be the logic, but I'm not sure how sound it is. People like to quit after finishing free spin bonuses as well.

I would agree they should be equal EV or at least close, 50% to 60% is pretty nuts. I would think a few jurisdictions (NJ for example) would legally need to point out which option gave the better return in a help screen at least. And with the Konami games, this would make a huge difference, the bonus is a MAJOR part of the return. Probably enough where if the credit prize was only 50%-60% of the free spin EV, then always picking the credit prize would drop the EV of the machine to below 75%.

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