Konami - Skill-based Frogger

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/las-vegas-manufacturer-konami-wants-grow-market-share


Apparently in at Cosmo already. Who will be the first to write a trip report?

Is it truly skill-based Frogger or is it just a Frogger bonus round on a standard 5-reel video slot? I'd love to see some video.

This machine?

https://youtu.be/8D0rXo3HSZc

Edit: after watching a couple other videos, this is not the game in question.

Quote: MathExtremist

Is it truly skill-based Frogger or is it just a Frogger bonus round on a standard 5-reel video slot? I'd love to see some video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNjrG1mgabw

The retro game is a randomly triggered bonus game on a regular slot.

https://www.gaming.konami.com/Games/Featured/Frogger.aspx

My understanding is that this is not a skill based game but they plan to do a skill based game around Frogger in the future.

Yeah, I watched the videos on line and didn't see anything skill based.

At Cosmo now. 3 machines near the coffee shop back by checkin. Checked them out last night, they are 100% NOT skill based. They are regular slot machines with a regular bonus. Cosmo is advertising they are the only place on the strip through June forwhat it's worth.

Yeah its confusing how the Frogger slot is presented, at a time where they are making skilled based bonus games they just have an automated bonus round of the game being played.

Casual game players do *not* want to sit through 30 minutes of reels spinning and symbols matching just so they can play a 60-second skill-based bonus round. That's why they're at the bar playing Candy Crush and drinking $18 martinis instead of playing slots and drinking free ones. I don't think any of the gaming products that combine a random base game with an infrequent skill-based bonus round will be successful with any demographic, old or young.

Quote: MathExtremist

Casual game players do *not* want to sit through 30 minutes of reels spinning and symbols matching just so they can play a 60-second skill-based bonus round. That's why they're at the bar playing Candy Crush and drinking $18 martinis instead of playing slots and drinking free ones. I don't think any of the gaming products that combine a random base game with an infrequent skill-based bonus round will be successful with any demographic, old or young.

I think its good for the demographic of people who have played retro games but normally don't play video games. I think the oldest of players won't like it and it won't hook in younger players that wouldn't have come in otherwise though. Some folks who play slots lack the confidence or think that more involved games are over their heads and I think the skilled based bonus games can bridge the gap.

In general, I agree with ME that gamers will not want to sit through extended random base games to get to a skill based bonus. However, I think there is a place for skill based bonuses, if they come frequently, and are done right. In a sense, "Deal or No Deal" is already skill (at least strategy) based, and the Aruze fishing games (the ones with the fishing reels players can crank) seem to do well with bonus rounds coming every five minutes or so.

Nintendo type skill games are priming an entire generation to expect and enjoy "short form" micro games. See "WarioWare":



The biggest problem is that some folks are very good at these games, and could potentially AP the things. Back in the day, a college classmate of mine recruited me to play his stored up "Robotron 2084" lives while he went to his class, then he picked up again after his class was over an hour later. I wasn't very good at the game, but he had stored up so many extra lives that he probably could have just left it running unattended and still have been okay. I don't think the arcade was happy finding only .25c in the till at the end of the day.

Quote: Ayecarumba

...I don't think the arcade was happy finding only .25c in the till at the end of the day.

I feel the same sort of dilemna with pure skill based games like Pinball 2047. You can't have a skill based bonus round go 60 seconds before a chance based resolution conclusion.

There will be the push pull of having a short skill based component to a slot to "attract millennials" and the fact that regardless of whether the skill dependent RTP is 90% or 99%, you need enough resolutions per hour to generate sufficient win to the casino. These will have to be high denom machines if they are going to offer anything other than a 20 second "skill game" component.

And the real question is whether there are players that will care if they play a great game of Space Invaders just to get a 98% RTP vs. 90% RTP. Will they value the skill based gaming entertainment experience enough to in the end, just play a 98% RTP slot game of pure chance. I don't think so if there is a 98% non-skill slot game available and aren't those available for higher denom slot play now?

I am not a believer in these skill based machines yet as I haven't seen a concept that addresses all of the issues. What I do see a market for is what the Downtown Grand appears to be doing. Holding video/e-Sport gaming tournaments similar to poker tournaments where players pay an entrance fee and compete against one another for a piece of the prize pool, or so I understand. This will be a bit like Poker, but not as good as poker, as there is no element of chance in the game. This set up for video games will have none of the "any player can beat any other player on any given day in the short run" aspect of poker.

I mean hell at the Spring Fling, I somehow managed to get away from the group poker table with a bit more than my buy in (and re-buy) and I was in so over my head against Romes/Pokergrinder/Axel and others. That is the beauty of poker, the element of chance found in the turn of a card can at times sway the balance and overwhelming skill will lose in the short run to "less than/no skill". That doesn't happen right now in e-Sports from what I can tell.

I think elements of chance can be programmed in to e-games. "Lucky" players can come across more bonus items, extra coins, or even weaker computer opponents.

It's not a slot, but one game I'd like to see is a speed draw and shoot simulator, using laser technology similar to the ones at the Police Academy. Players would strap on a holster and have a Wild West "High Noon" showdown with a computer simulated bad guy. I recall seeing this game at the arcade back in the 70's. Players would have to wait for the near life sized projected opponents eyes to flash before they could draw and shoot. At $3 a play, with the opportunity to double up after each win, I think the machine could be a consistent money maker since the time between the eyes flashing and the opponent firing could be programmed to change randomly.

What I don't want to see are games that appear to be 100% skill based, like the crane, keyhole, stacking or string cutting games that are actually programmed to introduce random spoilers when players appear to be close to winning.

Quote: Paradigm

I am not a believer in these skill based machines yet as I haven't seen a concept that addresses all of the issues. What I do see a market for is what the Downtown Grand appears to be doing. Holding video/e-Sport gaming tournaments similar to poker tournaments where players pay an entrance fee and compete against one another for a piece of the prize pool, or so I understand. This will be a bit like Poker, but not as good as poker, as there is no element of chance in the game. This set up for video games will have none of the "any player can beat any other player on any given day in the short run" aspect of poker.

I mean hell at the Spring Fling, I somehow managed to get away from the group poker table with a bit more than my buy in (and re-buy) and I was in so over my head against Romes/Pokergrinder/Axel and others. That is the beauty of poker, the element of chance found in the turn of a card can at times sway the balance and overwhelming skill will lose in the short run to "less than/no skill". That doesn't happen right now in e-Sports from what I can tell.

The difference between video game tournaments and poker is that entries are typically invitational with a *free roll* qualifier with open entries. The only pay to play tournaments are typically small time local affairs. The money for the casinos would come from hosting it and betting on the games.

I am just starting to investigate the e-Gaming world (I am not a video "gamer"), but this space seems to have more traction for a segment of Millenials than skill based slots...at least to me. You have Millennials that are club type patrons, you have traditional table games players (yes, some Millennials do have money to play the tables) and you have a decent Gamers segment along with other groups

I hear you on the pay to play tournaments being small time local affairs, but didn't WSOP start out as a small regional gathering. The biggest problem with e-Sports finding a spot in the gambling world is it is 100% skill based...there is no luck component. Someone would need to fix that to make e-sports more like poker in order for local tournaments to become something bigger.

Quote: Paradigm

I am just starting to investigate the e-Gaming world (I am not a video "gamer"), but this space seems to have more traction for a segment of Millenials than skill based slots...at least to me. You have Millennials that are club type patrons, you have traditional table games players (yes, some Millennials do have money to play the tables) and you have a decent Gamers segment along with other groups

I hear you on the pay to play tournaments being small time local affairs, but didn't WSOP start out as a small regional gathering. The biggest problem with e-Sports finding a spot in the gambling world is it is 100% skill based...there is no luck component. Someone would need to fix that to make e-sports more like poker in order for local tournaments to become something bigger.

The closest games are Trading Card Games like Magic the Gathering and Hearthstone which professional poker players have played and currently do.

Quote: MathExtremist

I don't think any of the gaming products that combine a random base game with an infrequent skill-based bonus round will be successful with any demographic, old or young.

I kinda agree.

It might initially attract some people as a curiosity but in the end it will be just another slot.