Not getting comped on a $1 slot at Sands, PA

So I stopped by Sands PA yesterday and had some Mystery Cash to use.

It was $25 and I played the whole thing on a Blazing 7's $1 machine, won about 30 bucks and cashed it out.

I removed my player's card and put in my friend's card to see if he was getting anything and he did not get the bonus cash.

So I re-inserted my player's card and then played close to $400 dollars in the machine.

Back and forth for more than 20 mins, until it finally hit for $300 and I cashed out again for $392.

I figured I'd leave at that, being ahead enough for gas money and hit the $25 blackjack table.

Made another $150 at BJ, used my card at the table, and bought in and out for $300 (ratholing my profits) playing another 30 mins.

Got home to check my comps and it was ONE dollar earned!!

Is this an error or are they really that tight on both slot and table rating. Table rating I could understand, but $400 played in a machine for over 20 mins and they couldn't comp better than a Buck???

The MySands page says I earned 3 golden stars, which equals 3 Points (takes about 5 points to earn a Gift for a giveaway)

Is there anyone I can write to or call to see if they will remedy this? Should I even bother as they may give me some droll explanation how player rating/comping is "randomly determined by multiple factors"?

That slot rebate looks about right to me. What was your bet on the $1 denominated slot? Let's say it was $3/spin.

20 minutes played * 20 spins/minute * $3/spin = $1200 in handle. $1 comp divided by $1,200 in handle is about 0.08% in rebate. 0.1% is pretty common, so 0.08% is light, but that's more likely to be due to my estimates and not due to Sands stinginess.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

...Is this an error or are they really that tight on both slot and table rating. Table rating I could understand, but $400 played in a machine for over 20 mins and they couldn't comp better than a Buck???

...

Is there anyone I can write to or call to see if they will remedy this? Should I even bother as they may give me some droll explanation how player rating/comping is "randomly determined by multiple factors"?

Are you saying you bought in to the slot machine with $400, or that you played through $400 worth of action? Your buy in on slots doesn't matter, could be $20 or $100 all the same. What matters is how much you bet every time you press "spin." This is how they calculate your Expected Loss (EL):

EL = (avgBet)*(NumEvents)*(HouseEdge)... I'm not 100% on my slots, but assuming the 3 coin bet and using the Wizard's Blazing Sevens Page I would work out the following... EL = (3)(120)(.11) = (360)(.11) = 39.6. Now, most places comp 'about' 20% of your expected loss. DO NOTE: this is casino/property dependent and could be 5% at one casino and 40% at another... 20% just seems to be 'about' the average in my experiences.

So from this, what's your comp? Comp = EL*.2 = (39.6)(.2) = $7.92, so almost $8. If you're only getting $1, then it's quite clear they're comping at a much, much, lower rate (5% = $1.98).

Do note that sometimes (in my experience) table play takes a day or two to hit your account and generate comps. Plus, as you stated, table play is very subjective. For slots or video poker, the comp rate should be 100% well defined. CET for example gives 1 tier credit per $5 on slots, and $10 on VP... this information comes from their own total rewards website. I would encourage you to look up the specific casino/property's website and if you still don't find your answers, simply call in and ask. Tell them you played for a while on slots, a while at the tables, and that you only generated $1 and that you feel this has to be incorrect. Then ask for their comp rates.

Overall, that does seem rather low... but it might be a combination of low comp rate + table play not hitting your account yet.

I dunno, I've gotten at least 4-5 comp dollars after this kind of slot play.

My indicator was the Golden Stars, as the machine starts playing a jingle indicating that I earned a golden star. This happened 3 times during the session and is verified on the My Sands page.

I'm thinking the machine didn't register all of the play and couple that with the table play (which is more likely where a $1 comp earned occurred) , I feel there might be an error here.

I played through over $400, that is what came out my pocket and in the machine over 20 mins of re-buying and I had $422 at the end with the initial $30 from the free play win and the final hit for $300 with $92 remaining of my inital $400.

Possibly the switching of cards caused it or maybe the machine was still rating based on the Freeplay (Sands slots do NOT count Freeplay towards comps)??

Quote: BedWetterBetter

I dunno, I've gotten at least 4-5 comp dollars after this kind of slot play.

My indicator was the Golden Stars, as the machine starts playing a jingle indicating that I earned a golden star. This happened 3 times during the session and is verified on the My Sands page.

I'm thinking the machine didn't register all of the play and couple that with the table play (which is more likely where a $1 comp earned occurred) , I feel there might be an error here.

Possibly the switching of cards caused it or maybe the machine was still rating based on the Freeplay (Sands slots do NOT count Freeplay towards comps)??

That's a great question for their rewards personnel. Also, if you genuinely feel there was an error, I'd still contact them with the situation. Looks like you need to speak with them any which way to get this sorted. Good luck and let us know the results!

The Sands gives approximately one golden star for every $200 - $250 through a slot machine. So you have three golden stars sounds about right for your play.

Points accrued are about 2/3 rate of golden stars so you have about four-five points accrued. Note their points are a rating system they don't allow you to see. However, you can ask at the rewards desk and they will gladly tell you how many points you have.

You need the points to go up to the next card level. It was because they don't allow you to view points I determined the golden stars to points ratio. Golden stars are just entry notifications in their current prize giveaways, like cars and vacations, etc.

Quote: Romes

That's a great question for their rewards personnel. Also, if you genuinely feel there was an error, I'd still contact them with the situation. Looks like you need to speak with them any which way to get this sorted. Good luck and let us know the results!

Will do, and thanks for your help!

Another word of warning about the Sands, if you intend on going up to the next card level.

Their system works like this.

You need five separate gambling days earning 25 points each day to get the next card level (they only have two, beginner and upper level).

Earning less than 25 points in a single day does not count so if you gamble for one hundred days earning 24 points each day, you do not go up a level.

Earning more than 25 points does not affect it either. On a whim, I earned 125 points (the same amount they are basically asking but in a single day) and they informed me a host might let me pass with just four days of play at that level.

This is probably the reason they don't want players easily viewing their points. If I was pushing for the upper card level, I wouldn't gamble past 25 points in a single day.

Note that 25 points a day is over $5000 coin-in each day.

We have a similar system here.
10 points will get me 1 free cruising night.
So if I have 19 points I still get 1 free night.
If I have 9 points and it is late in the night or hate the variance this is how I get the extra 1 point.
Go to the electronic roulette terminal and bet $5 on zero and $90 on red and black. I lose $5 every round but hit the repeat button until I have just over 1 point. So I get a free night every time with just over 10 points.

After speaking to a manager, the answer I was given was along the lines of.

" Your play was rated at the normal level and even though you played an average bet of $3 for 27 minutes, we do not guarantee a certain amount of Comp dollars for Cash played. Therefore, you only played long enough to earn the comp amount you were given. If you had played longer, you would have been rated higher and thus received more comps."

I interpret that as , play more , lose more , get comped more.

On the plus side, I went to Sands for Father's Day and churned out $750 on BJ and a whopping $21 profit on the slots after $4 played (hey, it's gas money!)

So I feel now that I am getting the last laugh!

Sands has no reason to comp much and only takes care of their best (worst?) slot players. Welcome to PA

$1 seems about right to me. $400 in action is absolutely nothing.

Quote: GWAE

$1 seems about right to me. $400 in action is absolutely nothing.

$400 was the buy in, The action was far more than that.

Hit several different Bar payouts ($10 , $20, $40 & $60 payouts) for at least $250 total, nearly all of which was put back into play.

Again, I've played less than $500 before and gotten at least $3-4 comp dollars.

Just recently (Friday night), I played a Quick hits slot machine with a $2 Max bet for around 45 mins. The resulting comps were $12 and I lost about $80 total with a $300 buy-in. Yet I hit 8 payouts of $25, 4 payouts of $20, One payout of $200 and finally quit after going 40 straight spins of NOTHING!

So it just seems like this was a result of netting a profit from the machine and switching player's cards. Or perhaps they just don't like people who Hit and Run?

Sorry I read it wrong. I thought you had put only 400 through the machine. For $1 comp I think 1k through the machine would be the standard.

$3 a spin for 27 minutes, assuming 5 seconds per game is 324 games

That is equal to $972 in action. $1 should be in the 90% return, so your theo is $97.20

Your players club might get you diddly on cashback/comps. As far as getting something back from a host i cant imagine them doing more than 20% of your theo, so about $18.54.

Quote: djatc

$3 a spin for 27 minutes, assuming 5 seconds per game is 324 games

That is equal to $972 in action. $1 should be in the 90% return, so your theo is $97.20

Your players club might get you diddly on cashback/comps. As far as getting something back from a host i cant imagine them doing more than 20% of your theo, so about $18.54.

But would a host even entertain a conversation over 97 theo?

Quote: GWAE

But would a host even entertain a conversation over 97 theo?

Most likely not. Unless you put in a marathon session and even then the Theo is pretty low.

Sorry for bringing this post back from the dead..... But after reading through this thread, I have to ask.

After only two visits to Sands, my comps are at $34.00. I've only ran MAYBE $100 through slots and video poker, the rest of the time I've been playing $25 Pai gow poker and $15 craps. 5-6 hours each visit. Does this seem normal?

I have no idea how many "card tier points" I've received either. Hehe.

Yea it seems 100 percent right- table games are comped much higher at the sands because the tax rate is 1/3 of the slots also tables are subjective to when the floor closes you out. Pai gow is a house game with a decent edge so you are comped at a higher theoretical rate