Double Up with comps
One of my local slot clubs gives comps for wins on the double-up feature.
Games: slots only
Slot ER: 87.5%
Slot Club Card: points are given for wins.
You get 1 point for every $10 won. 10 points = $1
So, the card adds 0.875% ER to the machines.
They also offer double point hours which makes the ER of the machines 89.25%
I noticed today whist playing; if you win the double up feature you get points on your card.
For instance you spin and win $1, if you double up the $1 and win the card gives you 0.2 points or 0.4 points during double point times.
What is the best strategy here?
That sounds a little strange to award points for coin-out, rather than coin-in. That's comping the winners, instead of all who play.
Are they giving point based on coin-out, or are they counting double-up wagers as coin-in (and giving points based on coin-in)?
Double-up is a fair bet, so if you get points for making it, those points have 0EV cost. Of course, you have to take on additional variance, for which you must be compensated. Use Kelly Criterion to determine whether the points are adequate compensation.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWait, I'm confused. Are they giving point based on coin-out, or are they counting double-up wagers as coin-in (and giving points based on coin-in)?
They give points based upon what you win. For example, you put in $1 to the machine, you hit spin and bet $1 and win let's say $2. The $2 win will give you 0.2 points during normal point times. If you did not win on the spin you get 0 points.
I think because they give points for the double up feature it might increase the return greatly.
Quote: petroThey give points based upon what you win. For example, you put in $1 to the machine, you hit spin and bet $1 and win let's say $2. The $2 win will give you 0.2 points during normal point times. If you did not win on the spin you get 0 points.
I think because they give points for the double up feature it might increase the return greatly.
Ok, so it is coin-out. I have heard of these things but I thought that they were all long gone.
How much are the points worth?
Quote: sabreAre you certain the double up feature has no house edge?
Which jurisdiction?
I was under the impression that these usually had no house edge. Isn't it required in Nevada?
Sounds like an older system. There are a few older machines this would be good on(rare).Quote: petroHi
One of my local slot clubs gives comps for wins on the double-up feature.
Games: slots only
Slot ER: 87.5%
Slot Club Card: points are given for wins.
You get 1 point for every $10 won. 10 points = $1
So, the card adds 0.875% ER to the machines.
They also offer double point hours which makes the ER of the machines 89.25%
I noticed today whist playing; if you win the double up feature you get points on your card.
For instance you spin and win $1, if you double up the $1 and win the card gives you 0.2 points or 0.4 points during double point times.
What is the best strategy here?
Eg, say that you hit something for $10, double up, and lose. Do you still get the 1 pt for the $10?
If not, then using double up isn't worth anything (as far as extra points go). You are just betting points (as well as betting your winnings) in a 0EV bet. So the change to your expectation is 0.
It does increase your variance, which can be valuable for other things. But the expectation from the game itself (including points) is unchanged.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceDo you get points if you double up and lose?
I doubt it. Most of the player tracking systems that I am familiar with that use the coin out paradigm would only give the points when you actually take the win. The coin out meter does not increase until the game is over which would be after all double up scenarios.
I’m looking for something a little more specific.
AxiomOfChoice: “How much are the points worth?”
If you care to read my original post you can see that 10 points = $1.
Sabre: “Are you certain the double up feature has no house edge?”
Yes.
AxiomOfChoice: "Do you get points if you double up and lose?"
No.
I’m still really looking for an answer. I don’t believe that getting comps for double ups will push the 87.5% return over 100% but I think it would be worth doing on small wins as it will slow down my wagering, which is the correct strategy on negative expectation games.
What I suspect in this situation the more you are willing to double up the greater the return.
Quote: petroI’m still really looking for an answer. I don’t believe that getting comps for double ups will push the 87.5% return over 100% but I think it would be worth doing on small wins as it will slow down my wagering, which is the correct strategy on negative expectation games.
As I said, getting points for double-ups does not change the return at all. You are betting points in a 0EV bet. If you lose, you lose the points as well as the money. If you win, you get 2x the money and 2x the points. The EV of the bet is therefore $0 and 0 pts.
Making 0EV bets does not change the return of anything. All it does is increase variance.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceMaking 0EV bets does not change the return of anything. All it does is increase variance.
Thanks, I see your point, I will think about this.
But still the double up feature does have some nice uses.
When playing on negative games like many slots it;
Can slow down play, if you double up on small wins.
In my country you can only collect in multiples of $1, so the double up feature increase the chances of getting that last dollar out of the machine.
For example; you have 60c in a machine and you just won 10c. I would say the chances of getting that last dollar out of the machine is greater quadrupling up on the win as opposed to keeping on spinning.
