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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 5:09:59 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

What I was trying to say is that the big blind has passed a particular seat for the round when the Big Blind for the hand at which a new player sits down is at a higher seat number than the seat the new player just occupied. Is that what is meant by the blind having "passed"? That is to say "the blind has passed for that round" when you consider a complete round of blinds to start at seat 1 and end at seat 10 and the new player has just occupied an empty seat with a lower seat number than the seat number at which the big blind is currently located, correct?

No.

The exception rule is only for the first round of a new table, and only applies in poker rooms where new players would otherwise post the big blind.

When a table first opens, in some poker rooms, they will deal high card for the button, other places, seat 10 automatically gets the button. The actual seat number is irrelevant. If they deal for the button, and seat 6 is the big blind, then the first round is until seat 6 is big blind again.

What is important is this: The Big Blind starts two people to the left of the button. On each hand it moves to the left, skipping empty seats. If a new player sits at a seat that hasn't gotten skipped yet, he does not have to post the blind. If a new player sits at a seat that did get skipped, then he does have to post, or wait for the big blind to come to him.

After this first round, the table is no longer new. ALL new players, regardless of position, must post or wait.

It is typical for players to wait one hand, or sometimes two hands, rather than post.

---

FYI: Yeah, I realize this may be confusing. The only important thing is what I included in my article: In some poker rooms you post (or wait), in other rooms you don't.

It is a pleasant surprise to sit in a room where you normally post, and not be asked to post, but certainly not needed to be detailed in the article.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 5:43:38 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

You have to be careful when using larger bets and chips, in the above example putting in a 10,000 chip and saying "raise to ten" could cause confusion, is it 10, or 10k?

This scenario is rare in cash games but can easily happen in a tournament. In fact, it happened at a table I was at a couple weeks ago.

The blinds had just increased to 300/600. Pre-flop, a guy put in a 5,000 chip and three 100 chips and said "Eight". He meant 800, and meant to put in 500 and three 100.

This presented all kinds of problems:
1 - If he had put in 800, even if he said "Eight," his raise would have been changed to a call. (800 was a valid raise for the prior level, but not the current level.)
2 - If he had put in 800 and said "Raise," he would have been required to make it the minimum raise of 1,200.
3 - If he had said nothing, his multiple chip bet would stand for a bet of 5,300.
4 - By saying "Eight", he was forced to make his bet 8,000.

Needless to say that in the confusion and argument, it became obvious he had intended to make a minimum raise. One player called. On the turn, in an attempt to fix thing and win back his chips, he went all-in. He lost.


Quote: andysif

then why "For example, if the bet is $2, and you have a ton of $1 chips, and you put out ANY larger chip, it's still a $2 call."

if i don't say anything, and i have lots of $1 chips and i don't use them and put down a $10 chip, shouldn't it implies that i am raising to 10?

this is the part that i don't understand: what "unwritten rule" is there that would make my action "a $2 call."

These are part of the rules that make poker rooms different from the casino. It is not the dealer's job, nor the other players job, to know what you're thinking, or the content of your stack. Hell, some people like to have huge stacks - even if they are all $1 chips.

By not specifying the intention, a single chip of any value is a call. If the single chip is for less than the bet, you'll be required to put in more. If the chip is for more, you'll get change.

As far as the "unwritten" part goes....
Quote: Robert's Rules - Betting and Raising

15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet, but do not announce a raise, you are assumed to have only called. Example: In a $3-$6 game, when a player bets $6 and the next player puts a $25 chip in the pot without saying anything, that player has merely called the $6 bet.




Quote: WizardofEngland

HEY DJ, might want to mention a button straddle, I always seem to like doing it in a $1/2, not sure I play it 100% effectively, but its fun. I think the Riv and Harrahs made the button straddle $5 in a $1/2

Noted. Will do.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 5:53:08 AM permalink
Quote: P90

You could try and give some hints for when rake can be considered too high to play for gains. Since poker is luck-dependent, the advantage of a better-than-average player doesn't often go over the ten percent mark. Pre-flop rake is something that affects tighter games at moderate stakes.

Also, some more fixes:
- extra "http" and extra slash in the end.

I had to re-read this to understand what is being referred to, as "cards...hidden" normally stands for card values rather than physical cards. It would better be rephrased to something like "protects his cards by hiding them from view completely" or "in a manner that can be mistaken for not having any cards at all".

Noted. Will do.
Fixed.
Noted. Will edit.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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January 6th, 2012 at 8:02:40 AM permalink
Congratulations, nice, it will be a good contribution to the WoO site. I know the effort this took.

In your bets & raises section,

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I.E. If the original bet is $2, and someone raises to $5



That would be a $3 raise, right?

Quote:

...some rooms require it to be at least $8 (double the prior raise).



That would be not $8 but $6, assuming I have understood this right?

I wouldnt assume everyone understands what the "button" is. I suggest a short explanation. To compound possible confusion, you have included "missed blind" buttons amongst the "dealer" button. I think I would call the former something else or at least emphasize there are two buttons.

I'm sure I am just dense, but I have trouble understanding the 'straddle' business. I'll keep re-reading it.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: 典hanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 8:16:22 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

In your bets & raises section,
That would be a $3 raise, right?
That [next raised bet] would be not $8 but $6, assuming I have understood this right?

No.

The first bet is $2. The raise is $3 for a total bet of $5.

Some poker rooms say a re-raise is a minimum of the amount of the raise, i.e. another $3, on top of the $5 for a call, for a total of $8, while some require it to be double the amount of a call, or $10 total.

Obviously, since these are minimums, it rarely becomes an issue. I.E. Minimum raises are somewhat common, but minimum re-raises are far more rare.

There is one time where it's nice to know ahead of time. Say the bet is $2, and the raise is to $6. If a following player puts out two $5 chips without saying anything, is it a call or raise? But this is actually a compound question, because if the next raise is double, $10 is "more than half a raise" and may be considered a raise. If the next raise is only $10, did that player intend to you raise?

---

I'll edit the part about the blind button.

And don't worry about being dense regarding the straddle. They are rare, and not allowed in many poker rooms. As long as you have an idea of what the heck it is, any questions that may pop up when someone does it will probably be easily answered without making you look like a novice.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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January 6th, 2012 at 8:18:59 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

on top of the $5 for a call



I would stick that in there. And revise the wording "(double the prior raise)" ; just doesnt make sense to me . Should be "at least double the prior raise"? [edited]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: 典hanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 8:38:00 AM permalink
Done.

I also added two paragraphs about Pot Limit.

Note that I have JUST NOW updated the original post with all the changes mentioned.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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January 6th, 2012 at 8:58:13 AM permalink
Is texas hold em the only game ever to be found? at least "turn" and "river' seem to go only with that game, and your article assumes this is what is going on. Maybe I am wrong about my assumption, you might address that.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: 典hanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 9:07:23 AM permalink
Yes, and no.

It is typically the game most often found. In smaller poker rooms, it may be the only game offered. In larger rooms, it's the one with the most tables running, and may be the only game early in the morning.

It's the most popular poker room game because it's the game almost exclusively shown on poker TV shows. This wasn't always the case. Then again, back before the poker boom, not a lot of casinos even had a poker room!

I'll update to make that more clear.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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January 6th, 2012 at 1:06:56 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

This scenario is rare in cash games but can easily happen in a tournament. In fact, it happened at a table I was at a couple weeks ago.

The blinds had just increased to 300/600. Pre-flop, a guy put in a 5,000 chip and three 100 chips and said "Eight". He meant 800, and meant to put in 500 and three 100.

This presented all kinds of problems:
1 - If he had put in 800, even if he said "Eight," his raise would have been changed to a call. (800 was a valid raise for the prior level, but not the current level.)
2 - If he had put in 800 and said "Raise," he would have been required to make it the minimum raise of 1,200.
3 - If he had said nothing, his multiple chip bet would stand for a bet of 5,300.
4 - By saying "Eight", he was forced to make his bet 8,000.

Needless to say that in the confusion and argument, it became obvious he had intended to make a minimum raise. One player called. On the turn, in an attempt to fix thing and win back his chips, he went all-in. He lost.



I think this ruling is harsh. If its obvious he meant to min raise, and re-reading your view again, it seems obvious to me; I would rule it min raise. There is little value in an angle shoot to raise it to 5300, or 8k. I would only give him to option to flat call any 3bets (or re- raises for the newbies), meaning if it was indeed an angle shoot, he cannot trap his opponent. He would also get a warning, any further mistakes and it's a one orbit penalty, any mistakes similar to this one and he is outta there. I would show him the rules on the wall, point him in the direction of the blind clock and finish my sodoku :-)
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727

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