Online Poker

The first question is all that I really care about. The latter two are for someone who wants to hear them self talk, but a good detailed answer would be very much appreciated.

I've played a few games of poker here and there, usually no more than a $5 buy-in with friends. I'm starting to want to get some more experience but I'm kind of cautious of where to start. First off, with games that do not require real money, what is a good and trustworthy site to do this with? I've seen a lot of people playing on Full Tilt Poker, can anyone comment specifically on this and expand if you have another suggestion?

I'm unsure of the legality of online betting/poker, and I remember something when I was signing up for the forum about not posting illegal things. If it's fully 100% illegal, please ignore my next statements. What is a good site to put in small amounts of cash (maybe $20) and get a lot of bang for my buck.

Lastly, could someone really quickly just sum up how online and real life casinos make their money with poker?

There are two sites which I would recommend without hesitation: Poker Stars and Full Tilt Poker. Both sites have good customer service (with the edge going to Poker Stars), have good rewards and bonuses, quick cash out policies, and a history of being honest and a safe place to put your money. They also have "free games" where you can play to your heart's content with "play money". Tons of tournaments including daily free rolls.

Please note, however, that Poker Stars and Full Tilt also have some of the best players around. There are a lot of people who grind out 12 to 24 tables at the same time and play ultra tight. Probably not at the levels that you are playing, but definately at the $1-$2 NL tables up to the $10-$20 NL tables.

If you want a great, safe site with lousy players, try Bodog. I know the Wizard supports Bodog strongly. A lot of gamblers who had a big craps win at Bodog's casino seem to wander into the poker room and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Bodog's big disadvantage is that it is not possible to play tons of tables, but since you are probably not doing this, no worries.

All of the online poker rooms charge a "rake" after the flop is shown with each hand. For micro tables like the $0.01 - $0.02 NL tables, they might not charge anything at all. Check their websites for additional information.

Hope this helps. I choose not comment on the legality of online poker. If you have other questions, please feel to post them.

I only play on Full Tilt, because it was the first one that I found that had Macintosh software. I know that others now have it, but, brand loyalty and all...

I never made a deposit. I only play on the fake money side.

I don't know if this is still the case, but when I started, you got a $1000 bankroll. Any time you were under $1000, you could 'top off'. No limits. So there are lots of people that play crazy, with a don't care, all-in attitude, because it's fake money, and they can reload at will.

It took a while, but I won some money, where I had enough to buy into a higher level where the play seemed much more realistic.

Now I have over $100K in fake money, and the players are mostly serious. There are still the over-aggressive, all-in-with-trash-a**holes, but you find them in cash game occasionally too.

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I was playing a tourney recently. About 2 hours in, with about 70% of the players out of it, FullTilt crashed.

I got an email the next day. The message said the tourney was 'cancelled'. I wish they had simply admitted that their system crashed. The message also stated that all remaining players got a full refund of the buy in, PLUS the prize money was shared by the remaining players, split up based upon each player's chip stack.

Mind you the prize money comes from the buy in.

So I think FullTilt was more than fair in their handling of this situation.

Of course, it was a fake money tourney. I can only hope that they would handle a similar situation with real money games the same way.

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With low-limit games, the casino will 'rake' a portion of the pot. That means they take 10% rounded down, up to a pre-set maximum. In A.C. and Connecticut, that max is $4. Many casinos have an extra $1 taken when the pot is over $20, set aside for bad beat or high hand jackpots.

With high-limit games, you 'rent' your chair. Typically, this is $5 every half hour, or every time there is a dealer change. They do that because it's easier than raking the pot, since with high limit tables, the pot is usually sufficient to hit the max of a rake rate. You pay the rent even if you are not in your seat.

Online, just watch a cash game. You don't need to make a deposit to watch. Check out a high limit table, and you'll see hundreds of dollars bet, but the pot will be $XXX.50. That 50¢ is the rake. With a micro-limit table (i.e. 1¢-2¢ blinds), they may use the same 10% rake as casinos, but with a 4¢ max.

Bottom line, the casinos will make their money one way or another...

after hearing about some things, I wouldnt personally consider online poker for real money for these reasons:

*collusion between players would be easy [both are on the phone to each other?]
*some players are using software to "get the odds" or even generate what's the best move
*you may be playing "bots" which would have some awful potential for cheating you, even if now that doesnt seem to be what we are hearing.
*there is at least one scandal where an insider was one of the players and could see everyone's cards
*uncertain legality threatens to be a pain in the butt with getting your money [I wouldnt be concerned about getting into actual legal trouble]

I must be some kind of wet blanket, sorry!

Those are the reasons I don't play for cash - I only play the fake money side.


Of course, those are also the reasons we need legalization and regulation. Sigh...

Thank you all for your input. I've decided not to do real money online, maybe I'll throw $10-20 in but not more than that. I guess I have one more question to top it off. My question is: What are a couple of things I should remember when I decide to make the jump from (fake) online hold-em to real (low limit) hold-em in a casino. I'm an avid craps player and new people are traditionally looked down upon, not only by the players but the dealers - I would like to minimize this as much as possible.

Again I greatly appreciate all input.

I gotta assume that you have a fair understanding of the game, but think the casino poker room is intimidating.

That's normal.

Unlike elsewhere in the casino where you can hang out at tables waiting for a seat to open, you can't do that in a poker room because of the possibility of seeing a player's cards and passing that info to your buddy.

Therefore, when you get to the poker room, there is a counter where you ask to be seated. Be sure they sign you up for the type of game you're looking for. If you're not sure, ask questions. If you want, ask what the buy-in is, and any other questions.




Once you sit down, the biggest mistakes new casino poker players make are these:


- Admitting you're a novice.

- Tells. Getting excited when you catch a big hand. One of the first times I played, I caught a straight flush on the turn. I made a bet and all the other players got rid of their cards like they were on fire. I made a big $8! Woo hoo!

- Acting out of turn. Novice players, particularly those in seat 1, tend to forget to play based upon the button, and that is almost telling the table you're a novice.

- Asking too many novice questions. Asking about rules which may change from casino to casino is fine, particularly when the hand is over. Try not to ask those types of questions during a hand. For example, I was in a hand where I made a small raise pre-flop, then the big blind went all-in. It was more than a call, but less than a full raise. When it got back to me, I asked if the players behind me could re-raise. This rule differs from casino to casino, and partially depends upon how much of a raise the partial raise was.

- Forgetting that it's not a social game. Oh, sure, you can chat with people and be friendly, but unlike other areas in the casino where you and your table mates are trying to take the house's money, in poker you're out to take your neighbor's money.

- Money management mistakes. (This mistake happens online too, but it's harder to identify when playing with fake money). Different stakes have different buy-ins. Minimum and maximum. Whatever you have on the table cannot be removed until you leave the table. You cannot add to your stack when you're in a hand. You don't want to be short stacked when you get a monster hand, because you might end up being all-in, with a relatively small pot. On the reverse side, whatever you have on the table is potentially at risk.

- Use a card protector, particularly if you're in seat 1 or 10 (either side of the dealer). It doesn't happen often, but occasionally a dealer will think you folded and take your cards. Only in very rare occasions can cards be retrieved out of the muck pile, so protect them. A protector can be something as simple as a $1 chip on top of your cards. I use one of those oversize metal $1 tokens used for the side bets on Let It Ride.

- Saying something you didn't mean. Unlike elsewhere in the casino where hand motions are required, in poker, verbal bets are binding. If you say 'raise' and didn't realize that someone had raised before you, you will be required to re-raise. I once saw a guy who wasn't really paying attention, say 'call' and drop his $2. The dealer pointed out that someone had already raised to $40. The player then said 'oops', took back his $2 and throw his cards into the muck. The dealer than tapped the table in front of him and said 'It's still $40.' OK. This guy was a loud-mouth a**hole who everybody, including the dealer, hated. If a regular guy did that, it would have been OK, unless the raiser was an a**hole and complained.

- String bets are not allowed. That's where you take some chips and bet them, then go back for more. If you want to make a bet so large that it requires two hand motions, state the amount, then move them in.

AZ -

You messed up te quote tags.

Gang: AZ's reply begins with the 4th paragraph in that quote.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

- Asking too many novice questions. Asking about rules which may change from casino to casino is fine, particularly when the hand is over. Try not to ask those types of questions during a hand. For example, I was in a hand where I made a small raise pre-flop, then the big blind went all-in. It was more than a call, but less than a full raise. When it got back to me, I asked if the players behind me could re-raise. This rule differs from casino to casino, and partially depends upon how much of a raise the partial raise was.

I said not to ask questions while in a hand, and yet in this example, I did just that.

The difference is, I needed to know. The answer was that the other players could not re-raise, so I called. If they had the option to re-raise, I may have re-raised myself, or simply folded.

The other thing is, I was in the hand. I've often had questions, but was not in the hand, so I said nothing, then asked questions or made comments after the hand was over.

That's important. Don't talk about the hand while there are still players in the hand. Even whispering to your neighbor who is also out of the hand, is not acceptable.

And they weren't novice poker questions. They were relatively obscure rules questions, the kinds of rules that can vary from casino to casino.

I once saw that type of question on a World Poker Tour show. The player had a technical question that affected his call/fold decision. It was this: There were three people left. The short stack went all-in. The chip leader didn't call, but also went all-in. The middle stack wanted to know if both players were knocked out, is the 2nd/3rd place determined by starting stack or hand value. Important info.

FYI: That casino, like most, would base it upon starting stack, and use hand value only if the players started with the same stack. Some oddball casinos base it upon the hand value.