Poker Dealer stealing Pittsburgh area Nov 2010

Rivers Casino never had any floor or surveillance people spot anything amiss. Since the dealer was stealing from winning hands it appears the players never noticed either but the dealer was mucking the cards in such a manner that he could have a chip under the mucked cards and then push the pot to the winner.

The casinos computers noticed his tips had an almost four hundred dollar increase in a week and pulled all his surveillance tapes for examination.

Interesting--they use every tool to protect their interests... It is the inside jobs that can burn the worst--I'm not surprised they check tips against previous results. Any idea how long he got away with it???


I was at Casino Royale last month and they were taling about the employee who came in disguised and attempted to cash some black chips. Didn't work so well for him...

Quote: RonC

Any idea how long he got away with it???...

Not really, but I concluded from the news source that they caught him fairly promptly since the computer had flagged the large difference between his Former Tips and Present Tips. So the casino must have caught it promptly. I'm surprized no bettor who won realized chips had been taken from the pot.

Quote: FleaStiff

Not really, but I concluded from the news source that they caught him fairly promptly since the computer had flagged the large difference between his Former Tips and Present Tips. So the casino must have caught it promptly. I'm surprized no bettor who won realized chips had been taken from the pot.

I am not surprised. Winners usually don't count.
What I am surprised is, the dealer put the stolen chip into his tips? Now that is stupid.

Quote: andysif

I am not surprised. Winners usually don't count.
What I am surprised is, the dealer put the stolen chip into his tips? Now that is stupid.

Little choice. I mentioned it here earlier, Rivers Employees are not allowed to have ANY cash in their pockets, including cheques. I haven't noticed if the uniforms have pockets or not, but to be caught with a cheque is to lose your job and license. To take $400 in a week in nuts. Seems about $1 a pot. Too much. Lets remember the quote from the movie:

"If he hadn't been so greedy he would have been harder to spot. But in the end, they're all greedy." --Robert DiNereo as Sam "Ace" Rothstein (Frank Rosenthal) in "Casino."

Quote: andysif

I am not surprised. Winners usually don't count.
What I am surprised is, the dealer put the stolen chip into his tips? Now that is stupid.

Little choice. I mentioned it here earlier, Rivers Employees are not allowed to have ANY cash in their pockets, including cheques. I haven't noticed if the uniforms have pockets or not, but to be caught with a cheque is to lose your job and license. To take $400 in a week in nuts. Seems about $1 a pot. Too much. Lets remember the quote from the movie:

"If he hadn't been so greedy he would have been harder to spot. But in the end, they're all greedy." --Robert DiNereo as Sam "Ace" Rothstein (Frank Rosenthal) in "Casino."

The vast number of cheats have a shot of not getting caught if not for noticable greed that puts them into the radar.
I googled the Pittsburgh story, a 25-year old kid went from $179 in daily tips to $500+ and was flagged.

He was ARRESTED for CASINO CHEATING (ahem, cough, cough....), and was saddled with a $75,000 fine.

His life has changed forever....

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Quote: FleaStiff

I'm surprized no bettor who won realized chips had been taken from the pot.

I'm not. Have you ever played or watched poker in a casino? One of the standard procedures is for the dealer to create a pot that is specifically difficult to count. If a player asks about the pot, all the dealer is allowed to do is to spread the chips a bit to make it easier to estimate the pot size.

The only way a player might notice something amiss is to watch the chips being pulled for the rake. It seems that in this case, the dealer raked an extra $1 chip or two. Unless a player watched and saw that chips pulled for the rake didn't make it into the rake drop slot, who would know?

The obvious question arises: How much money is being made in poker rooms wherein dealers are permitted to have shirt pockets?

Why are pots pushed in a difficult to count manner?
Why are raked chips permitted to be raked through or near the muck?

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Exactly what normally happens. The casino or one of its employees cheats or steals amd they get a fine and a slap on the wrist. Do it as a player and go to prison and never be able to step into a casino again.

This is not the case, and Ron Harris - who was a slot-machine computer code auditor/inspector for Nevada Gaming itself! - Got YEARS in prison for multiple felonies rigging slot machines to be his personal ATM machines. But then of course he gave the Gaming Commission a huge black eye, and they came after him with shotguns and hanging rope.

Quote: Paigowdan

This is not the case, and Ron Harris - who was a slot-machine computer code auditor/inspector for Nevada Gaming itself! - Got YEARS in prison for multiple felonies rigging slot machines to be his personal ATM machines. But then of course he gave the Gaming Commission a huge black eye, and they came after him with shotguns and hanging rope.

Another case of greed and stupidity. If the TV story is near true the big mistakes they made were first in asking for a cash payout and second going to the same hotel room after, and on the same property! Now, Ron had to be in the room to get the numbers from the TV. But the beard he had playing had no reason to use a fake ID nor ask to be paid in cash. Legit win, so just take a check. Taxes come off the top, then give Ron his predetermined end after the dust settles. Do it again a few years. Or just do it enough to retire. But in the end, they're all greedy.

Back to poker cheque stealing from the pot. The average player would not count the pot exccept to know what they put in. If they did count they probably would not be keeping track, except in a simple, heads-up pot. And they would attribute a small shortage to rake, which few players know or care how to calculate. Most including myself just trust it is done right.

What I would notice is more than one cheque hitting the toke box. Not once, but if it happened time after time I might. But remember they rotate dealers, so the players only have what, 20-30 mins of hearing "click-click" instead of "click" when they drop.

One dealer I know, not at Rivers, claims she has the key to her box. No idea how.

Quote: AZDuffman

One dealer I know, not at Rivers, claims she has the key to her box. No idea how.

I think she's referring to something TOTALLY different, and if you are friendly with her, she might explain how to get that key...

All kidding aside, I would like to think I know what's in a pot and I might catch a mistake like that... but I'm aware that in a big pot I wouldn't catch it. I've played at Rivers a couple of times, and both times I found that the action was quite heavy. I could see how the dealer could get away with it... a couple of times. He tempted fate though and it burned him.

It is kind of sad that surveillance didn't catch it though. If it was his abnormally high toke count they saw, and not the actual deed being done at first, then that's just laziness on their part.

Quote: Tiltpoul

I think she's referring to something TOTALLY different, and if you are friendly with her, she might explain how to get that key...

She is too old to be a cougar so best to leave it like it is.......

Quote:

It is kind of sad that surveillance didn't catch it though. If it was his abnormally high toke count they saw, and not the actual deed being done at first, then that's just laziness on their part.

I'd imagine that would be low priority and hard to catch. As we all know, survellance looks for big and growing stacks before they audit a table. There would be no stack to notice. But we can all agree it was a stupid dealer. Kind of dumb thief who doesn't realize the way to score isn't to steal a little money fast but rather to steal a lot of money slow. Even during the Stardust Skim the master, Jay VanDemark once told his guy, "are you crazy? We can't steal that much!"

Maybe I will stop there lest this post ever end up in my investigation if I ever go for a gaming license............

I've heard that surveillance is less vigilant in the poker room because its really just some jerk taking another jerk's money rather than someone trying to steal the casino's money. No one really knows the level of surveillance or the alertness level but I'm sure watching tv screens in the poker room would be somewhere around that level of paint drying.

Quote: FleaStiff

I've heard that surveillance is less vigilant in the poker room because its really just some jerk taking another jerk's money rather than someone trying to steal the casino's money. No one really knows the level of surveillance or the alertness level but I'm sure watching tv screens in the poker room would be somewhere around that level of paint drying.

Completely understand that argument... and to a degree, I accept it.

And there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR IT!!! Not only should the dealer be fined, but the casino should be required to both pay a fine and offer something to the players for nothing. Maybe a freeroll tournament to anybody who played during that time. This is a black eye on their surveillance and knowing this will make me not play poker at Rivers again.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Completely understand that argument... and to a degree, I accept it. And there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR IT!!!

Yes, I know what you mean. One week of reduced rakes or one week of "something" would go a long way to their mending the wounds since every player imagines that he was the one who was cheated the most by this dealer or by some other dealers doing the same thing on a less grand scale who were therefore not tripped up by a computer detected surge in the math.

Its unfortunate too since most poker rooms don't have the silly no chips, no cash rule and most poker rooms allow shirt pockets in a poker room.

Its a heck of foolish thing to have to deal with but that Eye in the Sky is usually an eight to ten dollar an hour guy. Now some people they hire for it turn out to be really really good at watching a tv screen and really seeing what is there instead of what they expect to see there. Sort of like a Street Cop who sees far more than the average person or a lookout for a pick pocket who sees more than would normally be imagined. The trouble is that although "casinos" (often outsourced surveillance specialists) like to hire the truly skilled watchers, they don't really pay them all that much.

One of the most blantant and obvious elements in poker room fraud is the sloppy "muck the cards over the chips" policy.

Granted, we can never expect a dealer to cut and size the chips (or to otherwise "organize" or tally the pot as the game proceeds),
but to co-mingle the cards and chips so sloppily at times, it's almost a silly ritual itching for abuse.

It isn't hard to provably separate the two - no cards over chips - (and BOY is this an utter constant rule of law in pit games when it concerns the CASINO'S money!) - better effort can be done in card rooms.

Cards over chips?

I never noticed that.

In fact, quite the opposite. The chips and cards are kept apart. The exception are the burn cards. These are separate from the muck and partially tucked under the pot. This makes it easy to see if the dealer forgot to burn.

This is shown, in detail, in the movie "Lucky You."