Poll

2 votes (10.52%)
7 votes (36.84%)
8 votes (42.1%)
2 votes (10.52%)

19 members have voted

WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
Joined: Nov 2, 2010
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January 24th, 2011 at 8:35:47 AM permalink
In a tournament itís folded to me on the small blind.
I reach for my chips and the Big Blind announces "If you raise I will go all in".
I raise.
He folds.

Should he be forced to go all in since he verbally declared he would if I raised?

How would you rule?
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
kenarman
kenarman
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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January 24th, 2011 at 8:40:39 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

In a tournament itís folded to me on the small blind.
I reach for my chips and the Big Blind announces "If you raise I will go all in".
I raise.
He folds.

Should he be forced to go all in since he verbally declared he would if I raised?

How would you rule?



In many poker rooms this would be considered angling and the player could face some kind of penalty or expulsion.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
Croupier
Croupier
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January 24th, 2011 at 8:42:35 AM permalink
I sometimes supervise the card room where I work. I have voted for option 3 but need to qualify my answer.

If the other player does it once, Id let it slide. If the player is consitantly known for such bad etiquette speech plays, he would be warned, then punished if it happens again.

The other consideration is action out of turn. If it was his turn to speak, verbal declarations would be binding. However verbal declarations out of turn are a difficult one to call. Most of the time in these situations you have to use your knowledge of the players to aid in your decisions.
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WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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January 24th, 2011 at 8:44:25 AM permalink
Quote: Croupier

I sometimes supervise the card room where I work. I have voted for option 3 but need to qualify my answer.

If the other player does it once, Id let it slide. If the player is consitantly known for such bad etiquette speech plays, he would be warned, then punished if it happens again.

The other consideration is action out of turn. If it was his turn to speak, verbal declarations would be binding. However verbal declarations out of turn are a difficult one to call. Most of the time in these situations you have to use your knowledge of the players to aid in your decisions.



I think that is the right answer. I've played a fair bit of pub poker, and things like that are said all the time, but in a casino I would say its actually a bit out of order when real sums of money are at stake.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 24th, 2011 at 9:00:30 AM permalink
In most poker rooms, acting out of turn is not binding. Therefore, verbal declarations are equally non-binding.

In some rooms, if you put out chips to call a bet, without realizing that there was a raise, you can fold, but the chips stay out.

Once again, consult Robert's Rules, or the poker room's own rule set.


Note that again, the rule may be different in a cash game vs a tourney.
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mkl654321
mkl654321
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January 24th, 2011 at 9:50:28 AM permalink
It's a bit of an angle shot, but also neither binding nor illegal. The main reason such talk should be allowed is that enforcing a prohibition against it would be a nightmare. Example: Player A raises, Player B looks thoughtful and then gestures as if he will move in with his entire stack. Player A says, "Careful!" Who gets sanctioned? Anybody?
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Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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January 24th, 2011 at 9:51:24 AM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

In a tournament itís folded to me on the small blind.
I reach for my chips and the Big Blind announces "If you raise I will go all in".
I raise.
He folds.

Should he be forced to go all in since he verbally declared he would if I raised?

How would you rule?



Quote: Croupier

The other consideration is action out of turn. If it was his turn to speak, verbal declarations would be binding. However verbal declarations out of turn are a difficult one to call. Most of the time in these situations you have to use your knowledge of the players to aid in your decisions.



Technically, it was his turn to act next. He was shooting an angle. I would hold him to the verbal contract.
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mkl654321
mkl654321
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January 24th, 2011 at 9:54:50 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Technically, it was his turn to act next. He was shooting an angle. I would hold him to the verbal contract.



It was his turn to act NEXT, but it was not his turn to act. Most poker room rule sets say that only actions/declarations in turn are binding.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
slyther
slyther
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January 24th, 2011 at 11:25:44 AM permalink
It's table talk at best, possibly an angle at worst. Definitely not binding.
Croupier
Croupier
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January 24th, 2011 at 11:59:44 AM permalink
Even 6 renowned Poker Figures can not agree on the correct ruling.
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