UTH pre-flop bet
Is there anyone who allow the players pre-flop 1X bet "in the dark"? Of course they can not change their bet any more.
I'm asking this because we have some players who want to play two different tables (roulette & UTH) at the same time & I don't see the sense to not allow them this. I think that this should be in interest of any live Casino.
Thnx
I’ve never heard of such a thing being allowed, but I see no reason why you couldn’t if you wanted to. It’s obviously a terrible way to play the game.
Quote: rdw4potusYeah, that would be a terrible way to play the game. But it's better than the casino standard practice for blind players around here - a required 4x (not even 3x) raise.
Ugh! I’m almost never around the tables, and I’ve seen people do the 4x in the dark. I’ve also seen people max bet the Mississippi Stud in the dark. You can’t convince me that there aren’t people out there who actively WANT to lose.
Can players who look at their cards bet the 3x? Not that it really matters as far as that goes. The right decision is either 4x or check, because you either have an expected profit at that point, or do not.
I would think players who look would always be allowed to bet the 3x. Not that it's a good bet for that. But people do bet, then run for the bathroom or whatever while the hand is still in play. I've seen that everywhere. The house just takes your loss or pushes your win to the rail, and you're done until you return.
Quote: Mission146Are you asking in the context of a casino employee?
I’ve never heard of such a thing being allowed, but I see no reason why you couldn’t if you wanted to. It’s obviously a terrible way to play the game.
Hi Mission146,
Yes I'm asking in the context of a casino employee.
My colleague from table management sad me thad he asked Shuffle Masters for recommendation & They said NO (we can not change the license & rules). I understand that lay-out must be changed & so on...
But however I thing that House Rules have advantage in this case. It will be very simple, just one tablet on table like this:
PLAY
Pre-flop: Max. 4X
Turn: Max.2X
River: 1X or Fold
In any case at the and of hand, dealer MUST open players cards & player can NOT change his/her mind during the hand!
BTW, more ore less Italian players
Quote: robertbHi Mission146,
Yes I'm asking in the context of a casino employee.
My colleague from table management sad me thad he asked Shuffle Masters for recommendation & They said NO (we can not change the license & rules). I understand that lay-out must be changed & so on...
But however I thing that House Rules have advantage in this case. It will be very simple, just one tablet on table like this:
BET
Pre-flop: Max. 4X
Turn: Max.2X
River: 1X or Fold
In any case at the and of hand, dealer MUST open players cards & player can NOT change his/her mind during the hand!
BTW, more ore less Italian players
I would say changing the layout isn't sufficient. If SHFL is telling you not to deal their proprietary game other than the way that they intend for it to be dealt and played, then you're not supposed to do that and I would think your casino could be sued.
Further, the game is dealt in your state (and the rules your casino follows) might also be rules that were approved by the applicable gaming commission or authority, so to do otherwise, you might be breaking those statutory regulations, as well, and could be fined for that.
Quote: VegasriderMost casinos prohibits playing two games simultaneously. Only exceptions could be if they are changing decks where there is a definate hold on the game or a player hits a jackpot.
That's the case here in WA. No having chips on two tables.
This is actually good for the players. I'd estimate 90%+ of the players I've ever played with don't raise at all, or under raise when they do. The 4x raise is when the player has an advantage and should get as much money in as they can. Even if you play basic strategy the only time you raise is with an edge on the play bet, so why not max it. The only time 90%+ of ploppies raise is with AA, KK, QQ, and that's about it. I swear, 9/10 will not raise with AK. It's so confusing.Quote: rdw4potusYeah, that would be a terrible way to play the game. But it's better than the casino standard practice for blind players around here - a required 4x (not even 3x) raise.
Educated guess... the player, playing blind, should win/lose 50/50 on the hands in the long run, but obviously will be obliterated by the blind bet and ante pushes. My guess is a 8-10% HE against the player.Quote: WizardThis is a good question. I tweaked my UTH program to analyze it. Results will take a few days approximately to come in.
Quote: RomesThis is actually good for the players. I'd estimate 90%+ of the players I've ever played with don't raise at all, or under raise when they do. The 4x raise is when the player has an advantage and should get as much money in as they can. Even if you play basic strategy the only time you raise is with an edge on the play bet, so why not max it. The only time 90%+ of ploppies raise is with AA, KK, QQ, and that's about it. I swear, 9/10 will not raise with AK. It's so confusing.
Are you sure this is good for the players? Of course 4x is the right bet if you've seen your cards and intend to bet pre-flop based on knowledge. And of course betting 1x or folding is the right call on the river if you have a marginal hand. But if you're playing blind and the house is going to force you to make a pre-flop bet in order to do it, the "best" pre-flop bet is...4x? 3x? 1x? I think I'd rather bet 1x and find out I have AK than 4x and find out I have 75.
Quote: mipletThere is an earlier thread with some discussions about this. I got around a player ev of -.407.
My program finished. It shows that no matter what Raise bet the player makes blindly, the player can expect to lose 0.407047006 of an Ante bet. So, if must play blindly, you may as well make a 4x raise, to dilute that down, as the raise bet is equally balanced and thus would have no house edge played blind.
Measuring the house edge as expected loss to the total amount it, here it is by raise size:
1x: 13.57%
2x: 10.18%
4x: 6.78%
Yes, the key words here are "But if you're playing blind..." The raise bet holds no house edge, as the Wiz stated above, plus, if you're playing blind, you clearly don't care about how to play the game so the rules of the casino also shouldn't matter that much to you =P.Quote: rdw4potusAre you sure this is good for the players? Of course 4x is the right bet if you've seen your cards and intend to bet pre-flop based on knowledge. And of course betting 1x or folding is the right call on the river if you have a marginal hand. But if you're playing blind and the house is going to force you to make a pre-flop bet in order to do it, the "best" pre-flop bet is...4x? 3x? 1x? I think I'd rather bet 1x and find out I have AK than 4x and find out I have 75.
