FinsRule
FinsRule
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December 3rd, 2018 at 9:41:54 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

In general opt to play unbeatable hands over hands that can be beaten



There is no unbeatable hand.

Edit - oops. Royal flush with AA. You canít lose, only push.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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December 3rd, 2018 at 10:31:32 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

There is no unbeatable hand.

Edit - oops. Royal flush with AA. You canít lose, only push.



In tiles you can get an unbeatable, untieable hand.

I specifically asked about A-5 straight flush and was told it was highest non Royal straight flush.
Wizard
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Wizard
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GialmereJoeman
December 3rd, 2018 at 10:44:55 AM permalink
Quote: Wiggins

I did a quick search and found at least three states that specifically mention A-2-3-4-5 as the highest ranking straight flush in their gaming regs. PA, MA, and MD



I've always assumed this to be the case. The probability of a straight flush stand off, where one is the wheel, is 1 in 14.4 million.

The wheel being the second highest straight/straight flush in pai gow poker I think is perhaps the stupidest rule in all of casino gambling. Can anyone top it? A rule that adds senseless complexity to a game, is counter to standard rules, and has absolutely no upside to either player nor dealer.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
SOOPOO
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Gialmere
December 3rd, 2018 at 10:52:37 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The probability of a straight flush stand off, where one is the wheel, is 1 in 14.4 million.



Are you factoring the large number of times you would not even play the straight flush? (A,2,3,4,5,4,5) (A,2,3,4,5,Q, K all suited, etc.....)
DogHand
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ams288
December 3rd, 2018 at 11:04:20 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

There is no unbeatable hand.

Edit - oops. Royal flush with AA. You canít lose, only push.



Any time the Player has 4 or more Aces/Joker and he puts AA in front, he cannot be beaten or tied in front, so he's guaranteed not to lose, though he may push.

Dog Hand
DogHand
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December 3rd, 2018 at 11:08:32 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

But if you have 5 aces and a pair of kings, should you play the full house with aces up or the 4 aces with the kings up?



If you are Banking, play KK in front, since your front will beat (or tie, which is the same thing when you're the Bank) any front the Players can produce, and 5 A's is better than a Full House, since it'll beat a player's quads.

Dog Hand

P.S. As long as we're on Fantasy Island, make sure you bet the table max on both the PGP and the Fortune sidebets before you get this hand ;-)
FinsRule
FinsRule
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December 3rd, 2018 at 11:40:22 AM permalink
Quote: DogHand

Any time the Player has 4 or more Aces/Joker and he puts AA in front, he cannot be beaten or tied in front, so he's guaranteed not to lose, though he may push.

Dog Hand



Ok, let me try again. There is no guaranteed winning hand in pai gow poker, only in pai gow tiles - gee joon and a teen pair.
Wizard
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Gialmere
December 3rd, 2018 at 11:54:52 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Are you factoring the large number of times you would not even play the straight flush? (A,2,3,4,5,4,5) (A,2,3,4,5,Q, K all suited, etc.....)



Yes. I'm going off of how often a dealer plays a straight flush in the high from my Pai Gow Poker Power Ratings.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Gialmere
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December 3rd, 2018 at 5:02:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wiggins

Not curious at all, just a matter of semantics. Traditional poker rankings list suited AKQJT as a royal flush, not straight flush. A-2-3-4-5 is the second highest straight and if it's suited, it's the highest straight flush (still obv ranked lower than a royal flush.)


Ah, I see. So your mileage may vary from state to state and casino to casino but in general: An unsuited Wheel is the second highest ranked straight and a suited Wheel is the highest ranked straight flush with a Royal Flush above it in its own separate category. Oddly the EZ Poker side bets I saw at Woo actually rank a Wheel (paired with a natural A/Q) as higher in status and envy payoffs (the main pay is the same). Ditto at the 5-card level. And why is it called "The Wheel" anyway? Is there a Pai Gow Tiles equivalent? I'm slowly working my way up to that game and have only scratched its surface, but I don't recall a "wheel" pairing. Why not call it a "Wong" or a "Gong" or a "Gwong"?

Forgive me if I seem obsessed with minutiae. I'm a hobbyist gamer who enjoys board games, card games, RPGs, VGs; you name it. (If you've ever heard of Reiner Knizia, Richard Garfield, Gary Gygax or Sid Myers you know the drill.) So in the category of casino games I'm merely a general practitioner as opposed to you specialists. (Casino games are certainly a unique category due to the associated glitz, glamour and MONEY!) I have, however, done some amateur game design (not casino games but a few friends did once build a craps table where you rolled 8-sided dice) and acted as a play tester for professional releases, so I'm used to making sure a game has all its T's crossed, its I's dotted, and some (hopefully) airtight rules. I've just never come across a caveat like "The Wheel" which seems to fly straight into the face of established (in this case) poker dogma.


Quote: beachbumbabs

Yes. In EZ PaiGow, Dan Lubin (the inventor, and a greatly missed member here -RIP) called the Steel Wheel the Lubin wheel and put it on the bonus paytable. Think it was 100-1? Should be listed on the Woo site under that game.

Last place I played EZ PGP, they had changed the name to something sort of Chinese, but I don't remember the word. Not sure why that happened. But it still pays.

Babs, I'm very sorry to hear about Dan Lubin. My condolences to you and his friends here. One of the pleasant surprises about finding this board is that several pro designers (such as yourself) are frequent posters. I saw elsewhere that he was one of them and had hoped to meet him on a thread since I'm moving into his area of expertise. Sadly, I'll never have that pleasure.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
Gialmere
Gialmere
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December 9th, 2018 at 4:26:37 PM permalink
I have another question for you PGP players this time concerning the joker...

If you use the joker to make a flush, would it be considered an ace so that your joker-high flush would beat an opponent's king-high flush? If so, and your flush already contained an ace, would you then have a two ace-high flush and thus beat an opponant's ace-high flush?

Since a five ace hand is possible, I'm guessing the answer is yes but it's a quirky game and I could use some confirmation.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.

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