Hold'em Poker

One of the things I've noticed quite a bit when watching the World Series of Poker events is that players who are involved in a hand often look at their cards, again, just before they muck. Why is that? Why did this become a tradition?

Phil Hellmuth has been saying for the past decade that he's going to try to not verbally abuse other players but he has not been able to achieve that. What a joke it is that the people that run the tournaments allow his obnoxious rudeness to continue. He almost always gets his money in good and the people that called him, the vast majority of the time, are not getting correct pot odds and their calls are not mathematically correct. I'm sure that Phil would call new poker players weak and beginners, but if their unsound play knocks him out of a tournament then they're an "idiot" and "stupid" or "the worst poker players." Of course the reason he is so upset is because you've knocked him out of the tournament. I think what Phil Hellmuth lives for is to berate and be rude to other players. Being one of the best poker players comes second.

Being known as a "Poker Brat" when you're young is one thing, but Phil is 51. He needs to learn to have some class.

Hellmuth is a draw. Casinos will put up with his crap because he brings in a lot of other players and money. If he were an average Joe, he'd have been barred many moons ago.

Also realize that this is his "schtick." It helps him get others off their game.

Quote: Greasyjohn

One of the things I've noticed quite a bit when watching the World Series of Poker events is that players who are involved in a hand often look at their cards, again, just before they muck. Why is that? Why did this become a tradition?

Perhaps if more people had this tradition, or at least there wasn't a stigma against it, Phil Ivey would not have folded that flush...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Perhaps if more people had this tradition, or at least there wasn't a stigma against it, Phil Ivey would not have folded that flush...

I'm not sure what you mean. I do recall seeing Phil Ivey mucking a clear winner by mistake once.

Helmouth is a piece of crap, but I think he probably does this stuff partially as an act at this point. He must have made a lot of money as the face man for the Ultimate Bet scam. I doubt this stuff is as stressful for him as it is for most. I don't believe he has ever really tried to stop.

I've always wished that someone on a table with him would bring a pacifier and a rattle and offer them to him when he dirties his diapers.

Of course, it's allowed for ratings/promotion. There was a time when lots of petty little dorks tried to emulate him, but thankfully most everyone has realized that such behavior diminishes the guy engaging in it far more than their opponent.

Sometimes you check your cards just to be 100% sure. It's kind of a freeroll. Isn't it at least possible that you saw that spade as a club the last 2 times? Free to check and if you hit you win the pot. Especially in a high stakes tournament.

Other times, it's just a kind of wistful goodbye. "We really could have done something together, poker hand. But it wasn't meant to be. So long."

Might also be a bit of a performance for the other players. "You could have gotten in real trouble against me here, but it looks like the cards just didn't cooperate, luckily for you. This time!"

Quote: Rigondeaux

Helmouth is a piece of crap, but I think he probably does this stuff partially as an act at this point.

Are you speaking from personal experience? I have never played with him but assumed it was all an act. Some of my acquaintances know him and think pretty highly of him despite his arrogance.

Here a picture I got off him at last year's $100,000 One Drop tournament. I had to zoom in and that's why it's a bit blurry.

Quote: DRich

Are you speaking from personal experience? I have never played with him but assumed it was all an act. Some of my acquaintances know him and think pretty highly of him despite his arrogance.

Yeah, Phil is a genius in this regard as I assume it's mostly an act now. Love him or hate him, people are watching him. And more TV time means more guaranteed money. Up and coming poker pros will never experience the success the ones in the mid 2000s did. Without googling it, I can't even name the 2015 champion. I barely watched the tournament that year. I caught the end of it at Disney World of all places.

I'm not speaking from personal experience. But, making a name for yourself by trying to humiliate recreational players on national television pretty much makes you a piece of crap in my book. And kind of a punk. Getting in somebody's face like that when you know they can't do anything about it. Of course he doesn't act like that in other situations, because someone would knock his teeth out.

It's easy to be a "nice guy" when everything is going your way and you're hanging out with people who think you're an awesome celebrity.

If he is stuffing $10k in their pockets and begging forgiveness after the fact, then I guess I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

And, he seems to have done quite well for himself steering people to UB, which was a very shady operation.

Quote: Rigondeaux

I'm not speaking from personal experience. But, making a name for yourself by trying to humiliate recreational players on national television pretty much makes you a piece of crap in my book. And kind of a punk. Getting in somebody's face like that when you know they can't do anything about it.

Well put.

On a different topic: One minute is long enough to make any decision in Hold 'Em. If you need more time than rhat you are just mentally slow, or you are just waiting and waiting for tells. Go ahead somebody, call the clock!

He was at my local a year or two ago. Super humble and nice, polar opposite of TV act. Stayed after he lost (where he donated $1500 at $2-5 $600 max) and took pictures with everyone that asked.

Grizzle is funny. Wish there was a lot more video of him.

Grizzle once decked Hellmuth, for all those that didn't know.