Should all rake have a universal cap of 1.5BB?

I've either seen or heard some poker rakes being higher than 1.5BB. In my opinion that is quite excessive. It defeats the purpose of poker.

Theoretically no matter how good your hand is, you are entitled to no more than 1.5BB per hand. Ever. This is because even if all of your opponents make the worst play, which is everyone (SB and BB included) always fold regardless of what their cards are, you are only getting 1.5BB per hand.

So it makes no sense to me that some poker rakes are higher than 1.5BB. It really defeats the purpose imo. No matter what you do you're not supposed to be getting more than 1.5BB per hand, if you are getting on average more than 1.5BB per hand then your opponents collectively did something wrong and they are getting more EV by all folding.

Of course, you can't expect your opponents to play collectively worse than mass folding, do you? So your EV will always be less than 1.5BB, making the rake unbeatable.

?????

Quote: Neutrino

I've either seen or heard some poker rakes being higher than 1.5BB. In my opinion that is quite excessive. It defeats the purpose of poker.

Theoretically no matter how good your hand is, you are entitled to no more than 1.5BB per hand. Ever. This is because even if all of your opponents make the worst play, which is everyone (SB and BB included) always fold regardless of what their cards are, you are only getting 1.5BB per hand.

So it makes no sense to me that some poker rakes are higher than 1.5BB. It really defeats the purpose imo. No matter what you do you're not supposed to be getting more than 1.5BB per hand, if you are getting on average more than 1.5BB per hand then your opponents collectively did something wrong and they are getting more EV by all folding.

Of course, you can't expect your opponents to play collectively worse than mass folding, do you? So your EV will always be less than 1.5BB, making the rake unbeatable.

I voted no, because in my opinion, 1.5 BB is too high a cap. 1BB would be plenty.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

?????

Please don't spam

Quote: beachbumbabs

I voted no, because in my opinion, 1.5 BB is too high a cap. 1BB would be plenty.

Is it too late to add the 3rd option of "A lower cap than 1.5BB" to the poll?

I don't really understand the question.

Rake is usually calculated as a percentage of the size of the pot. In a large pot it is certainly possible to have an EV of more than 1.5BB. If you steal the blinds they usually don't take a rake.

Quote: Neutrino

Please don't spam

Please have one of your other accounts look up the definition of "spam"

Quote: Neutrino

Is it too late to add the 3rd option of "A lower cap than 1.5BB" to the poll?

Yeah, even the admins can't edit a poll.

so you think the rake in a 2/4 limit game should be $6 but at a 1/2 NL the rake should be $3. Solid thinking there.

Quote: GWAE

so you think the rake in a 2/4 limit game should be $6 but at a 1/2 NL the rake should be $3. Solid thinking there.

But come on. Don't you know that a 1/2 NL game with more than a $3 rake cap is mathematically impossible to beat?? lol...

That two weeks went by fast.

The OP is seriously confused, and would be well advised to find a hobby other than poker. The statements of random factoids in the thread starter post are irrelevant to one another, and to the rake.

In Nevada, rake can never exceed 10% of the pot (not the blinds, the pot) under any circumstances, at any moment, in any hand, ever. The actual effective house rake in most games is significantly less than that absolute maximum of 10%, unless you are playing exclusively 2/4 limit. Uncalled bets are not part of the pot. Neither are blinds, unless they become part of a bet which is called. Your expected value is not determined by the posting of blinds. Neither is rake.

Quote: GWAE

so you think the rake in a 2/4 limit game should be $6 but at a 1/2 NL the rake should be $3. Solid thinking there.

In both games, the blinds are $1 / $2.

Quote: DrawingDead

The statements of random factoids in the thread starter post are irrelevant to one another, and to the rake.

Yeah, that is what I meant by "?????"

Quote:

In Nevada, rake can never exceed 10% of the pot (not the blinds, the pot) under any circumstances, at any moment, in any hand, ever.

Is that set by gaming? I didn't realize that there were regulations about that in Nevada.

Quote: GWAE

so you think the rake in a 2/4 limit game should be $6 but at a 1/2 NL the rake should be $3. Solid thinking there.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

In both games, the blinds are $1 / $2.

Now you have me missing the spread limit game at El Cortez, which was played with a single $1 blind.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

In both games, the blinds are $1 / $2.

lol was hoping no one would catch that.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Is that set by gaming?

Yes. It is.

In Nevada, there is a rigid maximum limit of no more than 10% of the pot at any time for house rake, and also precisely specified details in the physical way it is to be taken, when, and where the chips are to be placed by the dealer and how. Beyond the house rake, a separate promo drop (for a segregated "jackpot" or "high hand bonus" or other similar promo fund, etc.), if any, must be taken only in a physically separate rake box to be accumulated in a segregated fund which must be 100% returned to players, and only then is allowed not to be counted against that maximum rake limit. If there is $39 in the pot, and the dealer has at that moment taken a total of 4 little white/blue chips from the pot and placed them next to or on the house rake slot, she has committed a clear unambiguous Gaming violation in Nevada, and both the dealer and the casino could be fined and potentially have other consequences for their licenses.

Though in California card rooms, my understanding is that the maximum rake might be: "How much money you got, amigo?"

Most of the nonsense some folks are determined to imagine are supposed to be rigid rules in poker games are actually completely at the discretion of the floor on a case by case basis, as they must be and are supposed to be, as plainly stated in every reference manual used for poker rules. But this is one of the few things that isn't. No discretion, no wiggle room. Never more than 10% of the pot in a cash poker game in Nevada can be raked for the house, not for a single moment.

Of course, in a lot of games in the largest casino poker rooms spreading higher stakes, the rake structure actually used results in significantly less than that for all but a few orphan pots and makes the 10% maximum largely irrelevant for those games.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Yeah, that is what I meant by "?????"

You are a nicer and more patient fellow than I am.